This is my shocked face.

 

Of course people will still defend their choice in optic - no one like to admit the have an ugly baby - hopefully this will keep new purchases from disappointing recreational shooters and endangering people that carry rifles for a living.

 

In "unrelated" news FBI HRT has switched to Aimpoints.

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/24/us-government-sues-l3-communications-for-fraud-involving-eotech-sights/

 

US Government Sues L3 Communications for Fraud Involving EOTech Sights

 

We can finally tell you the rest of the story regarding L3 Communications’ EOTech Sights. The Department of Justice has been investigating EOTech for some time and has finally filed suit (US v. L-3 Communications EOTech Inc., 15-cv-09262) in US District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).

 

Specifically, the Government’s allegations concentrate on the performance of the Holographic Weapon Sights at temperature extremes as well as in high moisture environments. The Government also claims that EOTEch failed to disclose testing that demonstrated the inaccuracy issues in those environments.

 

In addition to naming L-3 and EOTech as defendants in the Government’s suit, they also named EOTech’s president, Paul Mangano which isn’t very common. They are seeking unspecified triple damages plus civil penalties of as much as $11,000 for each fraudulent claim.

 

L-3 has been aware of the pending action, having mentioned the issue in their July 2015 SEC filing as well as setting aside $26 million.

 

ETA: Earlier topic on EOTech issues and a safety notice to all USG users:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/78404-ussocom-issues-safety-of-use-message-for-eotech/page-3#entry997216

I think both Eotech's and Aimpoint's suck.  Irons or ACOG are all that I like.  Of course this is just personal preference.  I have owned both Eotech's and Aimpoint's, no use for them.  They provide me nothing that irons can't do.

I think both Eotech's and Aimpoint's suck. Irons or ACOG are all that I like. Of course this is just personal preference. I have owned both Eotech's and Aimpoint's, no use for them. They provide me nothing that irons can't do.

That's fair. Based on your avatar I assume you were/are USMC so you have your frame of reference.

 

I prefer RDS (Aimpoint in particular) over irons and ACOGs all day long.

 

In my experience, there are a great many things that a RDS can do faster, more accurately, and from a greater variety of positions, environmental conditions, and gear loadouts, than irons or ACOGs are capable of.

 

But that's a conversation for another topic.

A little more info. Looks like L3 voluntarily settled...

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD27U20151124

 

Military contractor L-3 pays $25.6 million to settle U.S. fraud lawsuit

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - L-3 Communications Holdings Inc agreed to pay $25.6 million to settle a lawsuit accusing the military contractor of defrauding the U.S. government by selling thousands of holographic weapon sights that it knew were defective.

 

Tuesday's settlement resolves civil claims that L-3 and its EOTech unit violated the federal False Claims Act by concealing defects that caused the sights to fail in extreme cold or humidity, including one defect that was hidden for 8-1/2 years.

 

Also known as combat optical sights, the sights are mounted on weapons and used by special operations forces and law enforcement to target and accurately return fire in extreme environmental conditions, according to papers filed by U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara in Manhattan federal court.

 

Bharara said New York-based L-3 hid the defects from the Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security and FBI, even as it sold them tens of millions of dollars of the sights beginning in 2004. He also said L-3 touted the military's use of its products to improve its image and boost commercial sales.

 

In a statement, L-3 said it cooperated fully with the government and is pleased to settle. The company previously set aside money for the accord, which requires court approval.

 

Bharara's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

Shares of L-3 fell as much as 6.1 percent to $118.30 after the lawsuit was filed, but before the settlement became public.

 

In afternoon trading, the shares were down $2.37, or 1.9 percent, at $123.65 on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

The case is U.S. v. L-3 Communications EOTech Inc et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 15-09262.

There's a lot of people here on this board Id like to take this opportunity to say I TOLD YOU SO!!! LOL

Funny.. looking at other forum yoi can see a veritable butload of people trying to sell their EO's. .everyone running for the exits

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

 

Crap.  I've got an ugly baby in the safe.  Guess I'll have to continue to avoid taking it to either the north pole or saunas.

Guess I'll have to just keep on avoiding the north pole and saunas with it.

 

Screw that, you have to avoid taking it to the range where people will ask you over and over if you know you've made a poor choice. 

Think I'll get this made into a decal and put it on mine:

 

I still like my Eotec's.

Probably switching to an Mro on my sig but the eotech will end up on one of my ar's

For those interested, Soldier Systems has published the actual settlement documents as a .pdf :

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/27/the-l-3-communications-settlement-with-the-us-government-over-fraud-charges-stemming-from-eotech-holographic-weapon-sights/

 

According to this paper work, the known/concealed Eotech zero drift, due to temperature change, was as much as 6 MOA in the carbine/rifle optics, and up to 12 MOA in the support/indirect fire weapon optics!

 

Parallax shift at 32 degrees Fahrenheit was 12 MOA, and at 5 degrees Fahrenheit it was 20 MOA!

wow .. thats fairly severe ...

 

In other news Dvor is selling 512's for $365 if you want a spare http://www.dvor.com/eotech-512-a65-holographic-weapon-sight-m512-hws-512-a65-1-w-free-batteries-scope-coa.html?promotion=high-end-red-dots-98-2015-11-27&options[]=2178-0-640865

 

I'll get right on that! :rofl:

I was an eotech fanboy but what can you say? I'll keep the magnifier and replace the sight. I'll either put it on my .300 or my kids gun

Glad I switched mine out for a Pro a while back.

Just wait around for all the agency units that are undoubtedly going to be dumped on the market at pennies on the dollar. What agency will be able to keep them in play even if they like them? I'm thinking it would be a ready baked liability at this point.

Dude, you should hear the shitstorm this is causing. I can't tell you how many guys are getting in trouble for sending this info up the chain of command in Emails or writing safety memos to their admin.

 

The "leaders" don't want to know about any of this. Their attitude is akin to "Ignorance is bliss", and apparently they think it negates liability.

I love my XPS but dont run it in desert temperatures or sub zero so it never failed me...

honestly the fact that my Pro is always on and ready (setting #7) is a huge selling point.  3 spare batteries at 30,000 hours each in my PG compartment and I'm good for 9 more years.  can't beat that

 

the comp m4 is looking pretty sweet too at 80,000 hours

They should be handing out gift cards towards an Aimpoint purchase...

I see a civilian class action suit coming.

Here's the messed up part I learned about today.

 

L3/EoTech knew all about the loss of zero issue, but they kept it to themselves for years for fear of being dropped from SOPMOD II.

 

They recently figured out how to fix the issue in old models and produce new optics without the problem.

 

Then they tried to sell the fix to Uncle Sam as an upgrade.

 

"I'll take 'What are Ethics?' for $1000 Alex."

"I'll take 'What are Ethics?' for $1000 Alex."

Funny cause its true.   Entirely what is wrong with practically the entire industry right there!!!

Not to excuse L3 or anything, but I'm going to say something slightly unpopular: the consumer is partially at fault here as well. 

 

How in the the name of your favorite deity did we get to the point was this was not properly tested by the military, we are not talking about extreme temps here, were are talking about a cold fall day in NJ. Once the military bought them and deployed them, someone somewhere must have noticed they can hit for shit between say .. November and March, and may have mentioned that up the chain.

 

In fact from the court documents it seems that Crane knew about this for some time, the "improvement" HE mentions was proposed in 2008, but this hasn't come to light until 2015 when the FBI bothered to turn on one of these things during a particular quarter of the year and ask "Yo, wtf?".  Anyone wonder if anyone lost their life between 2008 and 2015 because of this? Is the US Government complicit in those death?

 

And for the civilian consumer ... I'm having a very hard time feeling bad about it. I mean sure, you were taken for a ride and that is bad and unethical, but people have been telling you for decades these things shit the bed a lot more then they should.  The crap quality of eotech has been an open friking secret, but some how the consumer chose to buy the hype and the marketing glossies and ignore all the warning. No, I'm not saying you deserved to have been raped for wearing a short skirt, but getting into the creepy van and drinking that "awesome flavored' vodka from the unmarked container is not smart either.

 

Call me names if you want, but when picking bits of kit that your life may depend on (in the case of the Mil/Leo the lives or many) you need to test the crap out of it make up your own mind, because how the hell does this happen?  I'll bet you a lawyer somewhere is looking through old papers right now to figure out if a hostage somewhere was ever hurt buy a LEO using a Eotech as well.

 

Call me names if you want, but when picking bits of kit that your life may depend on (in the case of the Mil/Leo the lives or many) you need to test the crap out of it make up your own mind, because how the hell does this happen?  

 

it's hard to "test the crap" out of stuff we buy.  so the best thing we can do is research most times.  but it seems there was plenty of open information on the issues with eotech that weren't present with the aimpoint, but then again, you can't get a micro t1 in the newest call of duty i suppose.    

Seems they are giving out full refunds

Seems they are giving out full refunds

You have a source for this?

You have a source for this?

yes source please, because I certainly want a refund. Or at the very least a replacement with a correctly function rds.

yes source please, because I certainly want a refund. Or at the very least a replacement with a correctly function rds.

Agreed