This is how you take the fight - enough talking, enough going to hearings in Trenton - just expose them for what they are and make them answers themselves to the press. For years they ignore us in Trenton -- now they will have to answer.

 

The Orange PD has already taken down their website and the video is beginning to spread. This will be all over the news shortly

 

 

If you want carry and an end to endless denials and delays in the FID system, make them live up to their own book of rules. They can't openly discriminate against women, the disabled, and "urban" people and expect to not get heat.

 

Spread the word

Wow. I hope this catches fire. I wish I had taped my encounter when I refused to sign an information waiver giving the police department access to my credit reports. 

Wow. I hope this catches fire. I wish I had taped my encounter when I refused to sign an information waiver giving the police department access to my credit reports. 

Go back there and record yourself and do it. Then upload to youtube and tag it as part of the campaign. 

 

This isn't just the NJ2AS putting out the videos - the intent is for everyone to make their own videos and tag it "Future Victims of NJ" and upload to youtube. We want to crowdsource an overwhelming and indefensible catalog of police discrimination. It starts today with just this one, but we will have hundreds

 

Everyone needs to pitch in

we need to stop talking about the things that have happened to us, and start SHOWING it. Video transcends everything else. Video is indefensible, concrete, visceral, real. 

I have been sending that video everywhere. My town gets my wife's and mine done in usually 3 days. If it takes a week we get an apology. So the bull crap that they can't be done in 30 days is a lie

 

 

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Mine get done in 2 weeks ......it is bull Shawn

Crazy!!! I hope this gets picked up by 2A news sites like Ammoland, etc.

I have been sending that video everywhere. My town gets my wife's and mine done in usually 3 days. If it takes a week we get an apology. So the bull crap that they can't be done in 30 days is a lie

 

 

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Awesome Shawn, and you're right. we have evidence pointing to the fact that all the aspects outside of the municipal police regarding the background checks are usually turned around within hours -- it is the police department itself that causes these endless delays in other cities. In the video he won't even ACCEPT the application unless you have an "appointment", yet he talks to the videographer for almost 30 minutes. Could he have taken a piece of paper in some part of that time frame? What they don't know is there is MORE footage of this same detective. We will expose it wherever it happens -- because frankly, even any waiting period is ridiculous. We should be able to walk into a shop, do a federal nics check, and walk out without groveling to some bureaucrat at a police station.

 

Otherwise, we need to tell them all to start disarming themselves and be on an equal playing ground with us low-level citizens. No more state troopers or guns in the statehouse until justifiable need is overturned. Period

 

Join the effort -- document all your experiences and publicize them. We will get this done

 

Shawn, maybe we could document somehow your very quick turn around at your station and use it to expose the hypocrisy of the other cities? We have more content that juxtaposes what you're saying perfectly

I first saw this on FB a few days ago and have been sharing it a few times a day ever since. We need to have people see this and share our own horror stories so the nation knows what's going on here.

I first saw this on FB a few days ago and have been sharing it a few times a day ever since. We need to have people see this and share our own horror stories so the nation knows what's going on here.

this is not that video. that was a teaser. This is a full 30 minute interaction where each individual class of people is exposed being discriminated against and denied permits. This shows the arbitrary and disgusting attitude of NJ law enforcement at its core when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get a permit -- but more so, how much they brush you off months before even ACCEPTING your application.

 

if you haven't seen it, plow through it. he contradicts himself multiple times and goes into great detail of who he would deny without a care in the world

That guy just kept walking into the conversation traps :-) 

Mine were done well before 30 days in Independence Twp. (Warren County).  Initial FPID and 2 P2Ps were done in 23 calendar days.  Subsequent sets of P2Ps were done in 16 days each. 

Mine were done well before 30 days in Independence Twp. (Warren County).  Initial FPID and 2 P2Ps were done in 23 calendar days.  Subsequent sets of P2Ps were done in 16 days each. 

 

1. Your situation is highly unique as the overwhelming majority of towns are substantially longer than 30 days

 

2. This is all besides the point... We shouldn't have to ASK FOR PERMISSION TO BEGIN WITH. In any other state, you walk in, do NICS check, walk out. This is the cancer that will keep spreading when you structure the system where you ASK for PERMISSION. It only leads to corruption of power. Any wait is unacceptable, whether it be 3 days or 30, or a year like many in NJ deal with. If this was any other government program, (i.e. WELFARE, SOCIAL SECURITY) There would be blood in the streets if people were told they had to wait months for a welfare check. Why is it OK to discriminate with this? and take as long as they please?

 

The system needs to be destroyed, not altered, not improved

1. Your situation is highly unique as the overwhelming majority of towns are substantially longer than 30 days

 

2. This is all besides the point... We shouldn't have to ASK FOR PERMISSION TO BEGIN WITH. In any other state, you walk in, do NICS check, walk out. This is the cancer that will keep spreading when you structure the system where you ASK for PERMISSION. It only leads to corruption of power. Any wait is unacceptable, whether it be 3 days or 30, or a year like many in NJ deal with. If this was any other government program, (i.e. WELFARE, SOCIAL SECURITY) There would be blood in the streets if people were told they had to wait months for a welfare check. Why is it OK to discriminate with this? and take as long as they please?

 

The system needs to be destroyed, not altered, not improved

Well said !!

does anyone who has facebook or twitter have a way to link this to chasing news. they seem to be pro 2a and willing to show pro 2a issues.

does anyone who has facebook or twitter have a way to link this to chasing news. they seem to be pro 2a and willing to show pro 2a issues.

 

they are aware and will cover it. Bill Spadea will be discussing on the air tomorrow also at NJ 101.5

Spread the word?  Sure!

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they are aware and will cover it. Bill Spadea will be discussing on the air tomorrow also at NJ 101.5

 

 

Good work. Get this to media and gun forums in New Hampshire, Buckeye, and Iowa. Send links to Christie for all posts and copy him on all emails.

we need to get this spread further too. any idea if cam and co would cover this story or has anyone tried? im going to try to find an email for them

Any response directly from the Orange police?  This guy should be fired based on the questioning that he is giving a potential applicant.  His job his to hand him the paperwork and explain what he needs to provide.  He doesn't get to make the decisions.  This is mind boggling.  

 

If doesn't follow the law as a policeman where's everyone else's incentive to do so?

prominent 2A groups in NH and other states have had this passed to them. most important are media impressions. NJTV is running an interview today on this. Chasing will likely cover as well. Need a broadcast affiliate to really make it sing

 

but the most effective tactic at this point is to force the response of the PD and to ask if they condone the words and discrimination in the video by the detective. they must defend him, or get rid of him.

1. Your situation is highly unique as the overwhelming majority of towns are substantially longer than 30 days

 

2. This is all besides the point... We shouldn't have to ASK FOR PERMISSION TO BEGIN WITH. In any other state, you walk in, do NICS check, walk out. This is the cancer that will keep spreading when you structure the system where you ASK for PERMISSION. It only leads to corruption of power. Any wait is unacceptable, whether it be 3 days or 30, or a year like many in NJ deal with. If this was any other government program, (i.e. WELFARE, SOCIAL SECURITY) There would be blood in the streets if people were told they had to wait months for a welfare check. Why is it OK to discriminate with this? and take as long as they please?

 

The system needs to be destroyed, not altered, not improved

You're probably correct but Montville always finishes in 30 days or less, usually two weeks.  They've even processed two OGAM waivers for me in the last 12-15 months.

Any response directly from the Orange police?  This guy should be fired based on the questioning that he is giving a potential applicant.  His job his to hand him the paperwork and explain what he needs to provide.  He doesn't get to make the decisions.  This is mind boggling.  

 

If doesn't follow the law as a policeman where's everyone else's incentive to do so?

in the video, he explains his recommendation is passed to the chief and he never disagrees with him because they are on the same page, and that he has "never" been overturned in court for an appeal in Essex county. Due process therefore doesn't exist

Everyone should be pounding these state representatives asking if they condone the discrimination against women, the disabled, and the elderly caught on tape in the Orange Police Department. They don't care about 2A, but they care about protected classes. Make them live up to their own book of rules and hammer then. An example has to be made

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/DistrictLegislators.asp?District=34

He thinks he is a judge not a cop who should just hand people the packet or web address and help with any questions.....he has way too much power in his hands....what he is doing is ILLEGAL & his boss the chief condones it !

this is not that video. that was a teaser. This is a full 30 minute interaction where each individual class of people is exposed being discriminated against and denied permits. This shows the arbitrary and disgusting attitude of NJ law enforcement at its core when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get a permit -- but more so, how much they brush you off months before even ACCEPTING your application.

 

if you haven't seen it, plow through it. he contradicts himself multiple times and goes into great detail of who he would deny without a care in the world

Thanks for pointing out that this is a new video. I'll be sure to pass this on on as well.

You're probably correct but Montville always finishes in 30 days or less, usually two weeks.  They've even processed two OGAM waivers for me in the last 12-15 months.

 

And there are many others in the Northwestern counties (Warren, Sussex, Hunterdon, etc.). It's really only those municipalities  that either *are* (or are close to) major cities (Orange being such a city and very close to Newark). 

prominent 2A groups in NH and other states have had this passed to them. most important are media impressions. NJTV is running an interview today on this. Chasing will likely cover as well. Need a broadcast affiliate to really make it sing

 

but the most effective tactic at this point is to force the response of the PD and to ask if they condone the words and discrimination in the video by the detective. they must defend him, or get rid of him.

I can't believe I'm going to almost (not quite) defend the sergeant, but it is clear they have a culture problem there. The CLEO is on board. He's only been doing this for a few years, who knows what the hell he was taught or what he knew before he started.

 

But that makes your point correct - defend him or get rid of him. However, I feel they will make that decision based on expediency, not the merits.

The whole thing is outrageous - especially his opinion and the whole "wide range" of reasons for denials...

The whole thing is outrageous - especially his opinion and the whole "wide range" of reasons for denials...

Keep in mind he runs through all the different groups he can deny - but then goes on a self-righteous monologue about how everyone should carry a gun. He literally controls who gets one and who doesn't. He literally passes the recommendation to allow people to carry, and could simply allow the judges to deny his applicants. But he CHOOSES NOT to. It's a conscious act, and he shouldn't be spared the guilt. Moreover, beyond carry permits, he openly discusses denying multiple classes of people for possession permits for reasons that are completely counter-intuitive

 

1. Will deny women for being petite - THEY NEED THE PROTECTION OF A FIREARM MORE THAN ANYONE!

2. A handicapped/disabled person - THEY NEED THE PROTECTION OF A FIREARM MORE THAN ANYONE!

3. The elderly - THEY NEED THE PROTECTION OF A FIREARM MORE THAN ANYONE!

 

The purpose of owning a weapon is to balance an unfair fight. If being "weaker" than a perceived enemy is the grounds for denying people permits, then I suppose 6 foot 5 225 pound muscle-bound men between the ages of 30-50 should be the only ones with access to firearms, according to his logic (remember, he also mentioned denying 21 year old "urban" people)

 

This is the twilight zone