Hello Everyone,

 

I'm a new member on this forum.

 

I'm looking for my first real handgun training and need recommendation.

Because of the dates and travel restrictions, I've narrowed my choices to these two classes:

 

1. Frank Proctor - http://www.wayofthegun.us/2-day-performance-pistol-course-palmyra-pa-may-7-8-2016/

or

2. Bob Vogel - http://aliastraining.com/bobvogel2-dayworldclasspistolskillsclass-may21-222016-bethlehempennsylvania.aspx

 

My goal is to improve my handgun skills and kind of prepare for matches as well as acquire some tactical (defensive) skills.

 

Did anyone took these classes? what is your recommendation?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Frank Proctor is on my short list of classes to attend. Just make sure you are taking a class commensurate with your abilities. It should challenge your skills and push you out of your comfort zone but not be so hard as to be discouraging.

 

I would like to take a class by Bob Vogel but I won't take any classes hosted by Alias. This is not a knock on the instructor, but avoidance of the hosting company (Alias) run by Paul Hotaling and his shady business practices.

I have been looking at that Bob Vogel class.....

 

So no way to sign up and get around using Alias..... damn

Look into Sights and Triggers:

http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/site/3ca3207e22524b0293624bd2b8893501/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsightsandtrigger.com%2F#2838

 

Great Instructor named Joe Riedy. Close, cheap, reasonable round count and class levels covering everything from the basics to advanced low light classes.

 

He has a Handgun Fundamentals class on March 26, 2016.

 

I have taken 2 of his classes already and plan on taking at least one this year.

Look into Sights and Triggers:

http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/site/3ca3207e22524b0293624bd2b8893501/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsightsandtrigger.com%2F#2838

 

Great Instructor named Joe Riedy. Close, cheap, reasonable round count and class levels covering everything from the basics to advanced low light classes.

 

He has a Handgun Fundamentals class on March 26, 2016.

 

I have taken 2 of his classes already and plan on taking at least one this year.

Page not found. Can someone clue the clueless on what's not to like about Alias?

Looks like all S&T training is done by Joe, but their Handgun Fundamentals only covers really basic stuff - it's one day class.

Hmmm..... Page loads fine for me from the link.

 

Google: sights and trigger training

 

As far as Alias, they routinely overbook classes. 30 guys in a 1 or two day class with a single instructor. Paying $600 for a class and getting zero personal time with the instructor is no good. There is no concern of what the students get from a class, only how much money he will make.

 

He changes venues last minute and doesn't tell anyone. 2 buddies were taking a LAV class in Texas. They changed the venue last minute and never told him. Caused them a ton of money and aggravation in hotel and flight changes to get to the new venue.

 

Search his name and search for Alias training issues and pages will pop up of complaints.

Hmmm..... Page loads fine for me from the link.

 

Google: sights and trigger training

 

As far as Alias, they routinely overbook classes. 30 guys in a 1 or two day class with a single instructor. Paying $600 for a class and getting zero FaceTime with the instructor is no good. There is no co verb of what the students get from a class, only how much money he will make.

 

He changes venues last minute and doesn't tell anyone.

 

Search his name and search for Alias training issues and pages will pop up of complaints.

Interesting, can you point to any reviews? I saw one person mentioned overbooked class few years ago but cannot find anything negative.

 

Anyways, who would be better instructor I guess?

Hmmm..... Page loads fine for me from the link.

 

Google: sights and trigger training

 

As far as Alias, they routinely overbook classes. 30 guys in a 1 or two day class with a single instructor. Paying $600 for a class and getting zero FaceTime with the instructor is no good. There is no co verb of what the students get from a class, only how much money he will make.

 

He changes venues last minute and doesn't tell anyone.

 

Search his name and search for Alias training issues and pages will pop up of complaints.

Thanks. Will do both of those.

Why not try local?

 

Your home range is GFH, I am sure they have classes to meet your needs, and since you shoot there and if you have questions, you just may see your instructor there and you can ask a question.

 

In addition you can build progressively through the courses pretty easily when taken locally.

 

I personally took the pistol 2 at RTSP which is the first step to let you take their other more advanced classes.  I will be working on the skills demonstrated there and when feasible take the follow-up courses as I build my skills

Interesting, can you point to any reviews? I saw one person mentioned overbooked class few years ago but cannot find anything negative.

 

Anyways, who would be better instructor I guess?

Look around and you will find the issues with Alias.

 

They overbooked a Pat McNamara class here in NJ just last year. Pat as the only instructor and 30 shooters on the line. 3 of my friends went and got zero direct instruction time with Pat. In fact, they are squared away shooters and were asked by Pat to help run the line. They paid $600 to learn and ended up teaching. That's bullshit.

 

Paul (Alias) is pretty good at getting bad reviews taken down with a quickness using threats.

 

And, again, it isn't about the instructor. Vogel is great and for comp shooters I doubt you will find much better. The issue is Paul (Alias) who acts as a "manager" or "booking agent" that is the issue.

Look around and you will find the issues with Alias.

 

They overbooked a Pat McNamara class here in NJ just last year. Pat as the only instructor and 30 shooters on the line. 3 of my friends went and got zero direct instruction time with Pat. In fact, they are squared away shooters and were asked by Pat to help run the line. They paid $600 to learn and ended up teaching. That's bullshit.

 

Paul (Alias) is pretty good at getting bad reviews taken down with a quickness using threats.

 

And, again, it isn't about the instructor. Vogel is great and for comp shooters I doubt you will find much better. The issue is Paul (Alias) who acts as a "manager" or "booking agent" that is the issue.

I just read an AAR where there were 31 or 32 students and 1 instructor. Like you just said, that's bullshit.

Thanks guys, that makes my decision a bit easier. Based on instructors background I was leaning towards Frank P, but I didn't want to make a mistake. I agree that having 30 people in line with one instructor is not going to work. That kills my second option.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

 

I second s&t. Good dude.

Look into Sights and Triggers:

http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/site/3ca3207e22524b0293624bd2b8893501/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsightsandtrigger.com%2F#2838

 

Great Instructor named Joe Riedy. Close, cheap, reasonable round count and class levels covering everything from the basics to advanced low light classes.

 

He has a Handgun Fundamentals class on March 26, 2016.

 

I have taken 2 of his classes already and plan on taking at least one this year.

I'm thinking about his carbine II in Sept

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

 

Frank Proctor is on my short list of classes to attend. Just make sure you are taking a class commensurate with your abilities. It should challenge your skills and push you out of your comfort zone but not be so hard as to be discouraging.

 

I would like to take a class by Bob Vogel but I won't take any classes hosted by Alias. This is not a knock on the instructor, but avoidance of the hosting company (Alias) run by Paul Hotaling and his shady business practices.

 

he lost defoor last year.  i wonder if others will eventually go too.  i can't imagine instructors like dealing with overbooked classes either

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

I just booked Frank's course. Really looking forward to it. Their customer service rep said that course should be good for most people who are familiar with the basics. I want to think I can safely operate my G19 .

Prior to buying a real handgun, I had two days crush course with one of the best IPSC instructors in Israel. The only problem, it was an Airsoft.

I'll prolly end up taking Carbine2 and Handgun@ with S&T.  I talked to him last year but the dates he had on the schedule ended up not working.  Seemed like a good guy over e-mail.

Look into Sights and Triggers:

http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/site/3ca3207e22524b0293624bd2b8893501/home?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsightsandtrigger.com%2F#2838

 

Great Instructor named Joe Riedy. Close, cheap, reasonable round count and class levels covering everything from the basics to advanced low light classes.

 

He has a Handgun Fundamentals class on March 26, 2016.

 

I have taken 2 of his classes already and plan on taking at least one this year.

+1 Joe is gtg. Looking to do more with him this year. Although, like HE said, Proctor is also on a short list.... Were did I put that winning lotto ticket again?...

Checko, keep us posted on the carbine II, I have been eyeing it as well. been good to see some of the guys on this board in person.

I was thinking about getting some training. ShootNJ seems to have comparable to those above courses. For example "SAFTD Skill Builder Pistol I". Are they any good? How do you choose where to get your training?

For me personally, it's either recommendations from people I trust, or stuff I have read/watched and think will be interesting.

 

You have to determine what you want to get from training, Ex- Are you looking to improve your fundamentals? Maybe learn how to shoot accurately on the move, Maybe you feel you are interested in increasing your proficiency in transitions from rifle to pistol. Once you determine what you want to accomplish, then look for a quality instructor that will provide the help in these skills.

 

It isn't hard to flush out a quality instructor, from a guy who is just stealing money, and is a bit of a clown, ( see the florida guy who shot himself post in the forums for an example of who NOT to attend). 

 

I would also pay attention to guys that have a lot of time behind the gun, on this forum guys like High Exposure do this all the time, I would expect you will get sound advice if you listed to who he is training with, or has. I think he even mentioned, try and take a class that pushes you out the comfort zone, but isn't way advanced, it will keep you learning, and not overwhelmed. 

 

The reason a few of us mention Joe at Sight and Triggers is, he offers a lot of info for the money, is local, and actually watches your fundamentals, and will give you things he see's to work on. Other classes are guys reading off of lesson sheets, and not really offering any guidance, just giving you drills to do.

 

I echo the issue with Alias, they consistently over book classes, and there is nothing worse then 18 to 25 students in a class with one instructor, and maybe one assistant. Classes should have a solid 1 teacher to 3 or 4 students, if they intend to give everyone solid feedback. Inevitably, you will have that one student who is either way novice, or worse, unsafe, and the instructor will have to spend all the time watching this person and ends up neglecting the rest of the class. YMMV, but this is what I have witnessed.

So, after much anticipation and preparation I got email from Frank Proctor cancelling the PA class. The reason for cancellation is health related. Apparently, he had heart attack and needs time to recover.  I wish Frank fast and easy recovery. That however puts me in square one and this time I more open to local classes.

So, after much anticipation and preparation I got email from Frank Proctor cancelling the PA class. The reason for cancellation is health related. Apparently, he had heart attack and needs time to recover. I wish Frank fast and easy recovery. That however puts me in square one and this time I more open to local classes.

Check out GAPP. He's here in NJ. I've taken several classes from him and you won't be disappointed. Actually, I'll be at his next class next weekend.

That one: http://www.gappnj.com ?

Yes, that one.

Thanks,

Are you taking defensive gun 1 and 2? Let me know how it went, I'm curious because description talks a lot about concealed operation.

I'll be there for DP2. I'll update here if I remember.

I'll be there for DP2. I'll update here if I remember.

Good Morning A-Tech,

 

How was your experience?

Good Morning A-Tech,

 

How was your experience?

I screwed up my weekends. The course is the 28th. I'll update then. Sorry for the confusion.

I screwed up my weekends. The course is the 28th. I'll update then. Sorry for the confusion.

Hey A-Tech, how was the class? Hope you didn't miss it.