There are 2 diagnostic targets floating around here. I pretty sure HE has the simpler one....

 

This is the one I use

 

Seriously, those diagnostic wheel targets are pretty useless. Spend some $ and get some quality training time in. Take a class, build a proper foundation with good habits. There is no "Advanced gun handling". There are just the basics executed faster and more accurately at the level of unconcious competence.

 

You can not train yourself - You can only practice. You need to learn and perform these basic skills under the eye of a quality instructor that can diagnose and correct small deficiencies. You learn from the instructor in class, then hone those skills through repetitive practice.

 

Contrary to common belief, practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. If you practice bad habits, you will perform those bad habits to the detriment of all else.

That's the one!

 

Spend some $ and get some quality training time in.

This is exactly what I'd like to do. So does anyone have recommendations for who to go to that meets the bolded word? I can certainly just pick one of my local ranges, but I prefer someone that is a quality instructor and wants to teach.

For a regular traditional training class:

http://www.sightsandtrigger.com/#2838

 

Joe checks all the boxes - close, affordable, quality.

 

 

If you are looking for one on one instruction, another option is our very own Modern Materiel:

 

http://modernmateriel.com/training/

Or

http://www.howellgunworks.com/mobile/classes.html

 

Good training, close, and affordable.

http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/forum/133-training-techniques-and-tools/

Go with what HE says.

My link is a plethora of stuff here

So I'm gonna put myself out there which is outside box for me, but it's the only way I'll get better. So I think the sights are fine. I know this because I am continuing the same problem I had back in 2012 with a different G19 and stock sights. I am on the fence about these sights still just because the front is a decent size.

 

Anyway, I went to the range last weekend and I definitely shot better (still not good) then the first time out just by changing my grip. However as you'll see I shoot to the left and a little low pretty consistently.

 

Both targets are at 5 yards. First target is with my SR22. Not much to say here other then what I already said, left and a smidge low. The second target is with the G19. Same issue but a little more drastic. Now the first 3 or 4 were definitely a bit high. On this target I tried to circle the groups. I started aiming center mass for 2 mags with the first few high. Did the upper right with one mag. Then did the last 5 rounds of the 50 box to the head. That was obviously the worst. But my issue seems pretty consistent

 

I have been watching some vids of proper grip and practicing that while dry firing. I started to try and work on aiming with both eyes open, but stopped that until I get the fundamentals down. In any event any feedback is much appreciated.

 

 

What ammo are you using?  5 yards is really short.  Remember - the sights are a certain distance over the bore (barrel)... what happens if you go to 7 or 10 yards?

Here's the thing - Looking at your targets we can say "Yep, you are shooting left and low". Without watching you shoot those targets we really have no idea why (That's why those wheel type diagnostic targets blow goats).

 

A good firearms instructor watches the shooter, not the target. The target will then be diagnosed within the context of what the instructor saw the shooter do as they took those shots. A really good instructor can watch only the shooter and accurately predict where each shot will hit without ever looking at the target, diagnose the problem, and give corrective training.

 

I can tell you this - You are doing something wrong. I can't tell you what that is. 5 yards is pretty close. That is a significant and fairly consistent deviation of POI from POS at that range.

 

I can also tell you that by repeating whatever it is you are doing wrong, you are building training scars and bad habits.

 

Get a pro to watch you shoot and make corrections. Then practice what you learned.

 

Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent. If you practice the wrong thing, that becomes ingrained.

One thing I have learned along the way is your hand needs to be absolutely still when you press the trigger.  Your aim can be perfect, but if your hand moves when you fire you'll never be on target.  This tip helped my wife immensely last weekend.  She practiced some dry fires this way and found that when she focused on keeping her hands still while firing, her accuracy immediately improved.

 

 

[Disclaimer: Of course YMMV, and what do I know I have only been shooting for 6 months]

Try a lazerlyte. Helped me with my j Frame. Da I can get saucer dish groups at 7ish yards.

My wife and I both use it.

Thanks guys. The goal is to definitely take some training. Until then, I am not going to stop shooting. I did start doing the dry fire exercise without worrying about aiming. Just work on pulling the trigger and have the gun remain still.

Where are you located?

Remember - take that video in context. Eventually aiming will be very important.

 

When dry firing it's hard to tell how still you are keeping the gun, or how much your sights are moving without a coach or training partner to tell you how bad your muzzle is moving.

 

I have found this drill to be very useful when dry firing without a coach.

 

 

In the drill you are not aiming per-se. You are using a specific point on the wall to measure how much your sight moves. It's backwards to aiming - you are using it as a reference point rather than an aiming point.

 

I use a variation of this drill as the first and last drill during a live fire practice session.

 

Target Prep: Draw 3 dime size dots, evenly spaced horizontally at eye level, on your target with a Sharpie marker. Target pasties work fine as well.

 

• Target at 0 yard line

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 dry fires* with the muzzle 1/4" from the target on a clean dot

• Move target to 1ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 more dry fires* at the 0 yard line with the muzzle 1/4" from a clean dot

• Move target to the 3ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 more dry fires* at the 0 yard line with the muzzle 1/4" from a clean dot

• Move target to the 5ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

 

* If at any time the front sight moves off the dot during the trigger press - stop, come off target, take a breath, and start your dry firing over

 

** Each 5 round live fire section should be fired on a separate clean dot - each dot is about the size of a dime. As long as your close to the dot (within 1/2" or so) it is more important to get all rounds touching, if not in the same hole, than hitting the actual dot. If you are more than ~1/2" off, you need to figure out why and address it.

Pew pew!

 

Double Tap

Where are you located?

Good question.

 

We need a NJGF range day. Who has access to a range and can set something up?

I would volunteer my time for a day of free instruction. Anywhere from OB to CJ to Range 14.

 

On a side note HE we are atill workig the details of that other thing out.

I will say that I kinda know how to press the trigger, and Glock triggers are hard for me to press well, I tend to move the gun to the left at speed. 

I would volunteer my time for a day of free instruction. Anywhere from OB to CJ to Range 14.

 

On a side note HE we are atill workig the details of that other thing out.

Same same! I would love to run a little clinic.

 

Awesome! Eagerly awaiting the details.

 

I will say that I kinda know how to press the trigger, and Glock triggers are hard for me to press well, I tend to move the gun to the left at speed.

Extremely common for a right handed shooter to hit left with a Glock.

If I may, I would gladly join "fix shooting to the left with the glock" clinic

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

 

Extremely common for a right handed shooter to hit left with a Glock.

 

Yeah the weight, staginess, and overtravel are killing me at speed. Not an issue if I'm shooting for groups, but in a steel match for example I definitely seem to be hitting the left side of the plates a alot

Remember - take that video in context. Eventually aiming will be very important.

When dry firing it's hard to tell how still you are keeping the gun, or how much your sights are moving without a coach or training partner to tell you how bad your muzzle is moving.

I have found this drill to be very useful when dry firing without a coach.

 

In the drill you are not aiming per-se. You are using a specific point on the wall to measure how much your sight moves. It's backwards to aiming - you are using it as a reference point rather than an aiming point.

I use a variation of this drill as the first and last drill during a live fire practice session.

Target Prep: Draw 3 dime size dots, evenly spaced horizontally at eye level, on your target with a Sharpie marker. Target pasties work fine as well.

• Target at 0 yard line

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 dry fires* with the muzzle 1/4" from the target on a clean dot

• Move target to 1ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 more dry fires* at the 0 yard line with the muzzle 1/4" from a clean dot

• Move target to the 3ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

• Clear the pistol and do 10-15 more dry fires* at the 0 yard line with the muzzle 1/4" from a clean dot

• Move target to the 5ish yard line

• Load up and fire 5 rounds for best group**

* If at any time the front sight moves off the dot during the trigger press - stop, come off target, take a breath, and start your dry firing over

** Each drill should be fired on a clean dot about the size of a dime. As long as your close to the dot (within 1/2" or so) it is more important to get all rounds touching, if not in the same hole, than hitting the actual dot.

Wow! Just the fact you took the time to lay this out for me is very much appreciated! I don't know how the RO's would react at either of the two ranges I go to (GSSC and Shore Shot). But really HE, thank you!

Where are you located?

  

Good question.

Toms River

We need a NJGF range day. Who has access to a range and can set something up?

  

I would volunteer my time for a day of free instruction. Anywhere from OB to CJ to Range 14.

Wow guys that's awesome! If something can get pulled together that would be really appreciated. Probably the best thing out of it would be just meeting members and putting faces to names.

Good question.

 

We need a NJGF range day. Who has access to a range and can set something up?

Yeah the weight, staginess, and overtravel are killing me at speed. Not an issue if I'm shooting for groups, but in a steel match for example I definitely seem to be hitting the left side of the plates a alot

There's a drill for that!

 

Check out some of the Ernest Langdon trigger reset drills.

 

Shoot those at about 5-7 yards with different trigger finger placement until you get it dialed in. Than back up and try it again. Repeat until you are happy.

Working on it, I only have like 500 rd through gun. I actually think it is mostly getting a proper grip under the timer, which then amplifies my issues. I'll sort it out.   I can't shoot it as fast as my M&P yet either, but I had 125k rounds through that and a 2-3lb trigger so .. work in progress.  Glocks notion of a competition trigger in a 34 is amusing. Dragging the moon on a cheese grater felt better.

Working on it, I only have like 500 rd through gun. I actually think it is mostly getting a proper grip under the timer, which then amplifies my issues. I'll sort it out. I can't shoot it as fast as my M&P yet either, but I had 125k rounds through that and a 2-3lb trigger so .. work in progress. Glocks notion of a competition trigger in a 34 is amusing. Dragging the moon on a cheese grater felt better.

What caused you to switch to glock from m&p platform ?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Working on it, I only have like 500 rd through gun. I actually think it is mostly getting a proper grip under the timer, which then amplifies my issues. I'll sort it out. I can't shoot it as fast as my M&P yet either, but I had 125k rounds through that and a 2-3lb trigger so .. work in progress. Glocks notion of a competition trigger in a 34 is amusing. Dragging the moon on a cheese grater felt better.

Few thousand dry fires will smooth it out considerably.

 

With Glocks, the lighter the connector, the spongier the trigger, and vice-versa, the heavier the crisper.

 

Vlad, check out this article written by a BTDT dude in a very special military unit. I posted it a few years ago but, it is still 100% applicable.

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/57841-glock-triggers-how-they-work-and-how-to-make-them-better/?fromsearch=1