4 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

The real problem is the AR would have been no deadlier in this situation as any gun would have been. The lone armed shooter could have done just as much damage with a bolt action or lever action.

Or a car

What amazes me is that everyone is quick to blame the gun, not the fact that the school had caught this shooter 2 years ago with ammo & a knife in his backpack. Their course of action was to suspend him and when he came back, he wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school anymore. Bringing a knife to school and ammo are 2 federal felonies that the school's administration should have not only expelled him for immediately, but had him arrested. While I don't believe we should have gun free zones, current law states you bring a weapon to school or explosives (ammo) that is a federal offense and the school should have acted in such a manner. School administrators know the policy and procedure, they failed to do it. He would have been institutionalized, any weaponry that he possessed would have been confiscated immediately and this never would have happened. It just goes to show the whole "stand up for violence" that we've been hearing for years because school shootings aren't anything new is merely lip service. To blame the gun or him being able to buy a gun is not the issue here, it's incompetency by school administrators.

32 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

What amazes me is that everyone is quick to blame the gun, not the fact that the school had caught this shooter 2 years ago with ammo & a knife in his backpack. Their course of action was to suspend him and when he came back, he wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school anymore. Bringing a knife to school and ammo are 2 federal felonies that the school's administration should have not only expelled him for immediately, but had him arrested. While I don't believe we should have gun free zones, current law states you bring a weapon to school or explosives (ammo) that is a federal offense and the school should have acted in such a manner. School administrators know the policy and procedure, they failed to do it. He would have been institutionalized, any weaponry that he possessed would have been confiscated immediately and this never would have happened. It just goes to show the whole "stand up for violence" that we've been hearing for years because school shootings aren't anything new is merely lip service. To blame the gun or him being able to buy a gun is not the issue here, it's incompetency by school administrators.

It’s a gun free zone.... shouldn’t have happened 

52 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

What amazes me is that everyone is quick to blame the gun, not the fact that the school had caught this shooter 2 years ago with ammo & a knife in his backpack. Their course of action was to suspend him and when he came back, he wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school anymore. Bringing a knife to school and ammo are 2 federal felonies that the school's administration should have not only expelled him for immediately, but had him arrested. While I don't believe we should have gun free zones, current law states you bring a weapon to school or explosives (ammo) that is a federal offense and the school should have acted in such a manner. School administrators know the policy and procedure, they failed to do it. He would have been institutionalized, any weaponry that he possessed would have been confiscated immediately and this never would have happened. It just goes to show the whole "stand up for violence" that we've been hearing for years because school shootings aren't anything new is merely lip service. To blame the gun or him being able to buy a gun is not the issue here, it's incompetency by school administrators.

In reality, if he wanted to do it, he could have purchased the gun illegally.  There should have been an armed resource officer at the school to put one in this kids dome.

3 minutes ago, GunsnFreedom said:

In reality, if he wanted to do it, he could have purchased the gun illegally.  There should have been an armed resource officer at the school to put one in this kids dome.

There were 2 armed resource officers in a school with 3,200 students. That is far to few. It also appears that there were unprotected entrances that allowed the killer access to the building to set off the fire alarm and create a kill zone.

This coupled with the failure to follow up on a multitude of red flags from this killer shows that law enforcement needs to up its game and schools must be made into hard targets. Entry restricted to a few secure entrances.

11 minutes ago, GunsnFreedom said:

In reality, if he wanted to do it, he could have purchased the gun illegally.  There should have been an armed resource officer at the school to put one in this kids dome.

Correct but not correct. If the school administration pressed charges on the kid for bringing ammo and a knife to school 2 years ago, he would be in jail right now. That is a felony.

From the app

https://www.app.com/story/news/new-jersey/governor/2018/02/13/gov-murphy-lays-out-gun-control-agenda-new-jersey/333975002/

1 minute ago, brucin said:

 

This coupled with the failure to follow up on a multitude of red flags from this killer shows that law enforcement needs to up its game and schools must be made into hard targets. Entry restricted to a few secure entrances.

what can law enforcement do if no one ever reported anything to them? When they caught this kid with ammo & a knife in his backpack, their answer was to suspend him for a few days and when he returned to just not allow him to carry a backpack. Law Enforcement can't do anything if they don't get it reported to them. 

The other recoccuring theme from this shootings is "The FBI knew about it" which is irrelevant because the only role the FBI plays in firearms traffic in this country is they set the standards for the nations NICS units to abide by, and to have copies of 4473's in archives somewhere. State and Regional NICS units can't do anything unless local law enforcement reports an issue to them. If Florida's NICS unit is anything like New Jersey, their employees are busy processing thousands of screenings a day, not actively seeking out potential criminals to blacklist.

5 minutes ago, JR88USMC said:

what can law enforcement do if no one ever reported anything to them? When they caught this kid with ammo & a knife in his backpack, their answer was to suspend him for a few days and when he returned to just not allow him to carry a backpack. Law Enforcement can't do anything if they don't get it reported to them. 

The other recoccuring theme from this shootings is "The FBI knew about it" which is irrelevant because the only role the FBI plays in firearms traffic in this country is they set the standards for the nations NICS units to abide by, and to have copies of 4473's in archives somewhere. State and Regional NICS units can't do anything unless local law enforcement reports an issue to them. If Florida's NICS unit is anything like New Jersey, their employees are busy processing thousands of screenings a day, not actively seeking out potential criminals to blacklist.

I find it almost impossible to believe that a kid who was thrown out of 3 schools one for a violent act plus bringing a weapon into a school was not on the radar somehow. If all this was kept quiet by school administrators than it's on them.

8 minutes ago, brucin said:

I find it almost impossible to believe that a kid who was thrown out of 3 schools one for a violent act plus bringing a weapon into a school was not on the radar somehow. If all this was kept quiet by school administrators than it's on them.

it was one school, not 3 schools. He was suspended for bringing live ammunition and a knife to school in his backpack. That is a felony. While gun-free zones I don't agree with, even the most pro-gun person knows not to bring guns or ammo to a gun free zone as the ramifications are not light. I grew up going to grade school during Columbine and many other school shootings. I was at Virginia Tech when that shooting occurred. During all of this you couldn't even do as much as joke about bringing a gun to school or making an empty threat of killing someone without consequence (you still can't), let alone being caught with a class 2 explosive in a school (ammo) and a knife (a lethal weapon) I'm sorry but there is no reasonable excuse for bringing ammo to school. If I had to guess, administrators felt bad for him that his father passed away and his mom was extremely ill, but I have no sympathy for those administrators. You choose to press charges and fuck one kid's life up by institutionalizing him is far better than letting him walk and 2 years later kills 17 people. 

I was also in the Military, leadership that makes decisions that get people killed has serious consequences, also outside of a combat zone if you are caught with live ammunition on you and you are not in a controlled environment like a shooting range (where you are searched thoroughly before you leave), or you're not on an armed duty detail, you're going to do time in the brig for it.

wait? kids aren't allowed to carry pocket knives anymore????

30 minutes ago, silverado427 said:

From the app

https://www.app.com/story/news/new-jersey/governor/2018/02/13/gov-murphy-lays-out-gun-control-agenda-new-jersey/333975002/

Great.....They are eliminating F2F sales now! Why am I not surprised?

exceptions for law enforcement again. i friggin wish some of our 2a lawyers would fight these goddam laws on that basis..........there is no reason/excuse for there being a different standard for leo's vs non-leo's.

These are the idiots who believe only the police should have guns, but also believe we have a police brutality issue in this country. 

They disarm us, they own us......OMO.

they already do own us.

Guns are illegal in New Jersey, with exception

and exemption

which is how our 2a lawyers should have fought any issues all along....but they haven't.......

Don't think it cannot happen again ! -  if you do not subscribe to "group think" and the popular thought of the day - I guess ya'll know what I think.....

I am friends with a woman whose Mom survived Auschwitz....I had the distinct honor to speak to her...  Her last words we truly - " Please - never again........"

Sadly it goes on...and can.

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Well done.............  as a LEO that get's it - you you have our profound respect sir.  Thank you for being sensible and on the front lines.

On 2/15/2018 at 10:22 PM, JR88USMC said:

it was one school, not 3 schools. He was suspended for bringing live ammunition and a knife to school in his backpack. That is a felony.

I can't recall where I read it but it was stated that he was tossed from 2 other schools for behavioral issues prior to his attending the school where he decided to commit mass murder.

13 hours ago, brucin said:

I can't recall where I read it but it was stated that he was tossed from 2 other schools for behavioral issues prior to his attending the school where he decided to commit mass murder.

that still doesn't excuse the fact that he brought live ammunition in to a school and administrators did nothing about it. If you're a PSE&G worker and you see something unsafe electrically when you're working, you don't report it and someone gets hurt as a result, you lose your job. Really this goes for any employee of any job that sees an OSHA hazard and doesn't report it, they're held accountable. Let alone catching a kid red handed with ammunition and a knife. You can't even joke in a school about a gun without being disciplined for it and it becoming a police matter, let alone bringing an actual weapon to school and an explosive? 

Basically what the anti-gun people are saying right now is gun owners need to be policed properly but schools shouldn't have to take pre-cautionary measures of their own to ensure this doesn't happen. Ask why schools shouldn't have armed guards and metal detectors, why was this not put in place 20 years ago when Columbine happened and many other school shootings happened since? 

BTW, the NRA-ILA put out an article about that meeting. The link was a bit weird... didn't lead directly to the article itself, so I'm posting it directly from my email...

Nice to see some coordination with the NRA taking place here... a needed development!

 

view the web version of this email     New Jersey: Anti-Gun Roundtable Shuns Gun Owners     What do you do when you want to silence your opponents?  Well, if you are new Gov. Phil Murphy you simply ignore them.  That tactic was on full display last week as Gov. Murphy led a roundtable of gun control activists in Cherry Hill.   About a dozen activists, representing almost every major gun control group, sat at the table with Gov. Murphy and Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald (D-6) to "discuss" their anti-gun wish list.  Gun owners weren't invited.  They weren't even asked for comment.  So here you have a group of people who know nothing about firearms or safe firearm handling talking about gun "safety."  It shouldn't come as a surprise that the talks were light on solutions and heavy on the same old gun ban rhetoric.  Instead of a meaningful dialogue, the festivities included nothing more than a proclamation of their wish list for separating New Jersey's law-abiding gun owners from their firearms. This self-appointed panel announced plans to: Ban magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds Ban .50 Caliber rifles Ban the sale of all traditional handguns by mandating the sale of only "Smart Guns" Ban "armor piercing" ammunition (which would ban most rifle ammunition) Require mandatory training to simply own firearms Oppose concealed carry Fund an anti-gun think tank at Rutgers You can watch the “roundtable” here. All of these agenda items have one thing in common.  They only impact law-abiding gun owners, and will do nothing to improve public safety.  As if it were believable, several speakers said they support the Second Amendment and sportsmen.   They also played games with the English language, labeling their proposals "gun safety" measures, as if gun owners don't understand that this is simply code for gun bans.  Ultimately, the state of New Jersey has many real problems to address.  The state already has some of the harshest gun laws in the country.  However, Governor Murphy has proven he is more interested in pursuing political agendas than addressing real problems, and once again New Jersey's law-abiding gun owners are in the crosshairs.   Your NRA-ILA is going to fight each and every one of these anti-gun proposals in Trenton.  Just last week, we supported litigation filed by ANJRPC to address the issuance of concealed carry permits.  This is going to be an extremely challenging environment, but New Jersey gun owners are up to the task.  Please continue to follow NRA-ILA alerts for updates.   FOLLOW NRA-ILA © 2017 National Rifle Association of America, Institute For Legislative Action. To contact NRA-ILA call 800-392-8683. Address: 11250 Waples Mill Road Fairfax, Virginia 22030. Please do not reply to this email. Unsubscribe from this email list | Manage your email preferences Thank you!

They can try. The NRA & every gun manufacturer will take it to court, and there will be no indisputable evidence that a Carbine sold to civilians is any different than any other semi-automatic rfile.