Not going to argue with that. My eventual plan is to be able to run on gasoline, propane, and natural gas. Also, I'm planning on setting up a redundant battery backup system, as well as some solar eventually. I figure if all that doesn't work, it doesn't matter anymore.

26 minutes ago, sota said:

study of the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. You'll notice that North Jersey had trouble with gasoline, but South Jersey had a problem with natural gas supply. Either way, whatever you do make sure you have a backup to your backup.

 

That's why I gots me a trifuel genny with ng as the primary.

Not going to argue with that. My eventual plan is to be able to run on gasoline, propane, and natural gas. Also, I'm planning on setting up a redundant battery backup system, as well as some solar eventually. I figure if all that doesn't work, it doesn't matter anymore.

55 minutes ago, sota said:

Also, I'm planning on setting up a redundant battery backup system, as well as some solar eventually. I

That is the correct way to do it. Only run the generator to recharge the batteries and run the fridge. Run lights and small appliances off of the battery bank in between. Then, use solar during the day to run appliances or charge the battery bank.

This method saves on fuel for the genny, by only running it a few times a day and also keeps your property quiet, as during a power outage, everyone knows who has a genny blocks away.

 

This forum is becoming so green...

im welling up

1 hour ago, Sniper22 said:

That's why you go with propane.

My philosophy... one is none, two is one, and three is where you need to be.

You guys keep 3 generators on standby??

22 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

That is the correct way to do it. Only run the generator to recharge the batteries and run the fridge. Run lights and small appliances off of the battery bank in between. Then, use solar during the day to run appliances or charge the battery bank.

This method saves on fuel for the genny, by only running it a few times a day and also keeps your property quiet, as during a power outage, everyone knows who has a genny blocks away.

 

Many of the houses in my area have them. Newer construction houses, that is. Seems like its standard in this area for any house built in the last 10-15 years. Back up generators, that is.

I should get lpg orifices for the ng generator.. not a bad idea.. can go from propane to NG if needed by drilling em out but not the other way around.

40 minutes ago, Lambo2936 said:

You guys keep 3 generators on standby??

Tri fuel dude..  US carburetor 

4 hours ago, Lambo2936 said:

You guys keep 3 generators on standby??

Nope, but I have different ways to produce electricity, the generator is only one way.

6 hours ago, Zeke said:

Tri fuel dude..  US carburetor 

Ohhhhhh... how is that having a backup? You have a backup for fuel sources, but if the generator itself fails you're SOL. 

2 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Nope, but I have different ways to produce electricity, the generator is only one way.

This is the correct way to operate. I wouldnt rely on a single genny with 3 fuel options.

33 minutes ago, Lambo2936 said:

You have a backup for fuel sources, but if the generator itself fails you're SOL. 

Exactly... I consider the genny as a mechanical item, which can easily fail. Which is why I believe in other sources too.

33 minutes ago, Lambo2936 said:

This is the correct way to operate. I wouldnt rely on a single genny with 3 fuel options.

Yep, I actually have 4 ways now. The genny, solar, a wind turbine and my truck. Most of the time, we're running off of the battery bank during a power outage for lights, TV, computer and any other small items and only running the genny occassionally for the fridges or fire up the furnace. When the genny is running, I'm also recharging the batteries. Using this system, I only had to run the genny like 3 or 4 times a day for like an hour or so each time. Keeps fuel usage down. Sure beats having to run a genny 15+ hours straight during the day/night. That would eat up a ton of fuel.

If we have sun, the solar panels recharge the batteries. I haven't used the wind turbine in an actual power outage yet, just tested it. That will charge the batteries too. So, a sunny day, the panels work. On a stormy day, hopefully it's windy.

Then, in a pinch, I can run one of my inverters off of my truck to recharge batteries, run the fridges, etc. if needed for backup. Soon, I'll have a 5th source, when I get the motor home I'm looking at, and will be able to use the generator on it for backup.

1 hour ago, Lambo2936 said:

Ohhhhhh... how is that having a backup? You have a backup for fuel sources, but if the generator itself fails you're SOL. 

This is the correct way to operate. I wouldnt rely on a single genny with 3 fuel options.

It’s a Honda.. they never break.

but I also have a camper.

4 hours ago, Zeke said:

It’s a Honda.. they never break.

but I also have a camper.

You fancy peoples.... always wanted a camper but then my S/O will have somewhere to kick me out to.

speaking of backup to backup generators... eventually I'll be "upgrading" from my emergency bought 5500/6500 generator to something bigger.  you know I'll be keeping the old one as well.  just because that's how I am.

1 hour ago, Lambo2936 said:

You fancy peoples.... always wanted a camper but then my S/O will have somewhere to kick me out to.

That’s why I have one

5 hours ago, Lambo2936 said:

always wanted a camper but then my S/O will have somewhere to kick me out to.

Isn't that a feature and a benefit? Sure beats sleeping out in the shed, right?

4 hours ago, sota said:

speaking of backup to backup generators... eventually I'll be "upgrading" from my emergency bought 5500/6500 generator to something bigger. 

One suggestion I would make is to seriously look at your power needs during an outage, and make plans to reduce them or figure out what you don't need to run. In my opinion and experience, bigger ISN'T better with generators, because it takes so much more fuel to run them. Unless you have a huge fuel depot, you'll burn through a ton, and not use the majority of the power you're generating.

Plus, in most outages, the primary thing you run is lights or small appliances. Why run a 8K generator when you need 1K of power? It's only sporadically that you'll need big bursts of power, for like a furnace. Even newer fridges don't require a lot of power to run.

The only reason for a big generator is to fire up central A/C, and that takes a big surge. The question would be weighing how often that situation might happen, versus running a big generator for all the other smaller needs.

(un?)fortunately I've had sufficient experience with the current unit to know what I can and can't do.  In fact we can run everything in the house except the central A/C, just not all at once.  While we were down for power for over a week one time, we quickly got in the rhythm of when to run stuff, so as to not overtax the generator.  16.5 hours of run time on 5 gallons of gas each day, with the genset turned off during the night.  I have 3 window unit A/Cs in storage right now (2 given to me for free), and the plan is to eventually figure out how to make 2 of them work so that in an emergency we can at least cool the bedrooms down before bed time. I might even go so far as to buy 2 new identical units at some point just to keep the loading balanced.  The wife thinks i'm paranoid; I just like to be prepared.  I guess worst case we sleep in the basement.  

The other thought is to try and set up a dedicated generator just for the central A/C unit, but I haven't been able to get info from people who would know, about what happens if you have 2 generators that have the neutral and ground in common (but not the hot leads), as well as signaling between devices (condenser and central HVAC.)  If I can i'm prety sure even my lowly 5500w unit could power up the condenser on its own.

Here's a question I've never seen asked or answered:

what's the energy lost/wasted by a given generator before a load is applied.  it's a spec that most inverters will give you. (ex: a 12kW inverter I've kept my eye on "wastes" 200W of power with no load applied.)  I know for engine powered generators there's a "sweet spot/range" for load vs. fuel consumption, so I guess the question is is my average draw high enough to be above the minimum/wasted power from just spinning the generator.  Yes, I know my average load is a bit high... I have a business computer stack that needs to be on 24/7; clients sure need their email during a hurricane!

great thread

27 minutes ago, sota said:

it's a spec that most inverters will give you. (ex: a 12kW inverter I've kept my eye on "wastes" 200W of power with no load applied.)  I know for engine powered generators there's a "sweet spot/range" for load vs. fuel consumption, so I guess the question is is my average draw high enough to be above the minimum/wasted power from just spinning the generator. 

I believe from what I've read, the "sweet spot" is approx 50% of the running rated watts, not the surge watts. So, as an example, a 5 kW gen runs the longest/smoothest with a 2500 watt load.

53 minutes ago, sota said:

The other thought is to try and set up a dedicated generator just for the central A/C unit, but I haven't been able to get info from people who would know, about what happens if you have 2 generators that have the neutral and ground in common (but not the hot leads), as well as signaling between devices (condenser and central HVAC.)  If I can i'm prety sure even my lowly 5500w unit could power up the condenser on its own.

You'd have to tie both the condenser 230 v and the furnace 115v off of the same source so they share the same neutral and ground.

7 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

I believe from what I've read, the "sweet spot" is approx 50% of the running rated watts, not the surge watts. So, as an example, a 5 kW gen runs the longest/smoothest with a 2500 watt load.

Based on my past experience (with this generator, and gasoline engines in general,) I'd believe that.

7 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

You'd have to tie both the condenser 230 v and the furnace 115v off of the same source so they share the same neutral and ground.

I could come up with a way to "lift" all 4 wires (XYNG) but that would mean needing to ground the generator separately as well.  I've still got concerns about the 24vAC link between the air handler and condenser.  Is that signal isolated entirely inside both the air handler and condenser?  Is it phase locked to whatever power source the air handler has? If it's phasing is different than what the condenser is seeing, is that a problem?

4 hours ago, sota said:

I've still got concerns about the 24vAC link between the air handler and condenser.  Is that signal isolated entirely inside both the air handler and condenser?  Is it phase locked to whatever power source the air handler has? If it's phasing is different than what the condenser is seeing, is that a problem?

The 24vAC is coming off of the furnace controls, so that's why the 115v for the furnace should come from one leg of the 230v feeding the condenser. The thermostat gets it's power from the furnace and the 24V AC signal triggers the relay at the condenser and starts the fan in the furnace.

Regarding the ground for the generator, I run a separate steel rod and cable from the frame of my generator into the actual ground, as a secondary precaution, when running it.

On 9/8/2018 at 10:24 AM, Sniper22 said:

 

 

On 9/8/2018 at 10:24 AM, Sniper22 said:

First, congratulations on having an Eagle.... That's a HUGE accomplishment for a teenage boy!

I know exactly what you're saying, it becomes a mindset. I'm a former Scoutmaster and have two Eagle Scouts, so the "being ready" mindset is always there. My wife always says, "if she ever gets lost in the woods or gets caught in a natural disaster, she hopes one of our sons is with her, and she'll have no worries".

 

Two great books that help people wrap their heads around what will happen. Everyone has been too complacent about being able to flip a switch and power going on. Not having power for an extended time is a game changer for MANY.

I've been through multiple power outages over the years, but the biggest test was Hurricane Sandy. I was prepared, so it wasn't a big deal for us, but we went without power for like 8 days, it came back on for a few days or so, then we had the snow storm that knocked it back out for like another 4 days. Living through that helped me to refine my overall plan for the next one and longer one.

I've always believed there is only ONE person that room.

 

I see that guy in the mirror too, but BOY! has he gotten gray!

My wife always says, "if she ever gets lost in the woods or gets caught in a natural disaster, she hopes one of our sons is with her, and she'll have no worries".

Smart gal, that wife of yours. Good on you both to have such sons.

 

 

On 9/8/2018 at 10:24 AM, Sniper22 said:

First, congratulations on having an Eagle.... That's a HUGE accomplishment for a teenage boy!

I know exactly what you're saying, it becomes a mindset. I'm a former Scoutmaster and have two Eagle Scouts, so the "being ready" mindset is always there. My wife always says, "if she ever gets lost in the woods or gets caught in a natural disaster, she hopes one of our sons is with her, and she'll have no worries".

 

Two great books that help people wrap their heads around what will happen. Everyone has been too complacent about being able to flip a switch and power going on. Not having power for an extended time is a game changer for MANY.

I've been through multiple power outages over the years, but the biggest test was Hurricane Sandy. I was prepared, so it wasn't a big deal for us, but we went without power for like 8 days, it came back on for a few days or so, then we had the snow storm that knocked it back out for like another 4 days. Living through that helped me to refine my overall plan for the next one and longer one.

I've always believed there is only ONE person that will take care of me and my family, and I see that guy every morning when standing in front of the sink in the bathroom.

I see that guy in the mirror too, but BOY! has he gotten gray!

My wife always says, "if she ever gets lost in the woods or gets caught in a natural disaster, she hopes one of our sons is with her, and she'll have no worries".

Smart gal, that wife of yours. Good on you both.

On 9/8/2018 at 9:50 AM, Old Glock guy said:

This discussion has come up on here from time to time on here, and I have said that I can't imagine a scenario where it would make sense to bug out vs. staying put in my north Jersey suburban location.  I have a couple of bug out bags packed, but mostly, I fret over all the pricey gear in them that I am unlikely to ever need to use.

As for escaping NJ, it is frequently said that PA and DE will prevent us from exiting across their bridges.  Even if that's true, unless my knowledge of geography fails me, can't one escape NJ without any river crossings by heading north?

What would be the point of them stopping us from evacuating? They think we want to use their resources? Would we have gotten to the point where travel is banned? Would there even be official enforcement of such travel bans?

 

We were out for 10 days in sandy.  i was prepared, didnt have any issue at all.  i have a bag for 4 which reminds me, i need to check the clothes sizes in there. 

24 minutes ago, 345Sire said:

I see that guy in the mirror too, but BOY! has he gotten gray!

My wife always says, "if she ever gets lost in the woods or gets caught in a natural disaster, she hopes one of our sons is with her, and she'll have no worries".

Smart gal, that wife of yours. Good on

What would be the point of them stopping us from evacuating? They think we want to use their resources? Would we have gotten to the point where travel is banned? Would there even be official enforcement of such travel bans?

 

Agree, that would be an interesting situation but govt enforcement not le

47 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

We were out for 10 days in sandy.  i was prepared, didnt have any issue at all.  i have a bag for 4 which reminds me, i need to check the clothes sizes in there. 

Agree, that would be an interesting situation but govt enforcement not le

That puts me in a spot,,,,,,,do I transport a firearm or no? Oh, wait, I do go to a range in Pennsy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that makes it legal. Uhh huh, yeah right.

Or am I gonna get it taken from me, like what happened in Katrina?

 

42 minutes ago, 345Sire said:

That puts me in a spot,,,,,,,do I transport a firearm or no? Oh, wait, I do go to a range in Pennsy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that makes it legal. Uhh huh, yeah right.

Or am I gonna get it taken from me, like what happened in Katrina?

 

#shootback

18 minutes ago, sota said:

#shootback

Like this, maybe?

If It's planning on being bad we "bug out" 15 minutes to my in-laws where we bug in.  We always leave before storm hits.  Whole house natural gas generator.  They are in a nicer neighborhood and further removed from population centers.  Wife packs up content of our freezer and takes with her to store there.  Could rough it out for quite some time if we had to.  

People at work know I'm a gun guy.  They always joke they are coming to my place if things go bad.  I tell them they are welcome to but we won't be there and to be sure to bring whatever they need.  More than once I've gotten the deer in headlight stare.  A lot of people have the mentality that they don't need to worry about it.  Somebody else will help them.  Are they in for a rude awakening in it ever goes bad.

 

 

http://www.shtfplan.com/conspiracy-fact-and-theory/ill-come-to-your-place-when-shtf-no-you-wont_10222014

found it.  read it, and the related posts if you want.