Someone I know is in a debate with a retired NYPD LEO that resides in NJ. 

 

I have been asked a series of questions that I *think* I know the answer too, but I am not sure.

Frankly, I do not want any part of the debate and I am avoiding getting involved, but now my curiosity is peaked and you dont kmow what you dont know - so I am trying to educate myself.

1) Can a retired NYPD officer residing in NJ full time carry a firearm?  LEOSA would seem to cover this, and I know there should be no state preemption of the law, but I do see that a permit is needed and I thought I read that this applies to NJ retired officers only. 

2) Can an active duty NYPD officer carry in NJ while visiting family in state?  Again LEOSA should cover this.

Now come the kicker questions.

3) Can a retired LEO of any jurisdiction ignore this states AWB laws?  I do not think they can.

4) Can an active duty LEO of any jurisdiction own their own personal AWB type rifle with all the evil features? Would they also be able to use said rifle in the course of their duties?   Again I do not think they can unless authorized by their department and frankly if the department has AWB type weapons they are issued from the armory I would think.

 

So what do those in the know say that are active and retired....

I'm sure the retired cops have follow whatever the laws are of the state they are in.  The ones I work with can not carry hollow points.    I will try to locate the info at work today so I can quote it.

not even active LEO can have a banned weapon,   from time to time you read story's of cops getting caught with such odious pieces of weapons of war.

 

I am a retired NYPD cop and I have a NJ Carry Permit. I can also carry a gun in every state under the federal HR 218 law.

1) Can a retired NYPD officer residing in NJ full time carry a firearm?

Yes, as long as they qualify once per year (NY or NJ course), and carry Proof and ID.

2) Can an active duty NYPD officer carry in NJ while visiting family in state?

Yes.

3) Can a retired LEO of any jurisdiction ignore this states AWB laws?

No.

4) Can an active duty LEO of any jurisdiction own their own personal AWB type rifle with all the evil features? Would they also be able to use said rifle in the course of their duties?

Yes, as long as they have written approval from their commanding officer.

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Thanks to all...

9 minutes ago, PK90 said:

 

Yes, as long as they qualify once per year (NY or NJ course), and carry Proof and ID.

Yes.

No.

Yes, as long as they have written approval from their commanding officer.

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Good morning Paul!  Up early I see  

Thanks for hitting that Home Run^^^  Saved me the trouble, lol!

Rosey

1) Yes - Because LEOSA

2) Yes - Again LEOSA

For both 1 & 2 the mag limit laws must be obeyed. LEOSA covers the actual firearm and the ammo carried (out of state police can carry hollow points if that is what is issued to the MOS by their agency) but does not exempt officers from magazine limits imposed by the state you are in.

3) This has not been tested to my knowledge, but in my opinion no, an out of state LEO can not violate the NJ AWB unless they are on official duty. The best test case would be an AR pistol as defined federally (but would be defined as an Assault Weapon in NJ) that an officer has qualified on and carries as as CCW. Technically LEOSA should cover it, but I would not want to find out what that process is like. I can also find no guidance in the the wording of the Act that LEOSA covers anything other than "CCW" weapons, and in my opinion, LEOSA does not cover long guns.

4) The current NJ AWB ban does not differentiate between a currently sworn NJ police officer, who is in good standing in their department, has having a difference in on-duty and off-duty status. The State AG currently guides that Officers sworn in NJ are exempt from all provisions of the AWB at all times, unless they are conducting other illegal behavior. 

The exemption is found here:

NJSA 2C:39-6(7)

  2C:39-6  Exemptions:
   2C:39-6. a. Provided a person complies with the requirements of subsection j. of this section,
   N.J.S.2C:39-5 does not apply to:
      (7) (a) A regularly employed member, including a detective, of the police department of any
      county or municipality, or of any State, interstate, municipal or county park police force or
      boulevard police force, at all times while in the State of New Jersey;

There is no letter or documentation needed to possess a firearm that is declared an AW by NJ. NFA stuff is still forbidden (SBR, suppressor, DD, full auto, etc...). Buying an assault weapon is another story. I don't know of any NJ FFL that will transfer NJ defined AW to a LEO without department letterhead and a Chief's signature authorizing the sale.

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

1) Yes - Because LEOSA

2) Yes - Again LEOSA

For both 1 & 2 the mag limit laws must be obeyed. LEOSA covers the actual firearm and the ammo carried (out of state police can carry hollow points if that is what is issued to the MOS by their agency) but does not exempt officers from magazine limits imposed by the state you are in.

3) This has not been tested to my knowledge, but in my opinion no, an out of state LEO can not violate the NJ AWB unless they are on official duty. The best test case would be an AR pistol as defined federally (but would be defined as an Assault Weapon in NJ) that an officer has qualified on and carries as as CCW. Technically LEOSA should cover it, but I would not want to find out what that process is like. I can also find no guidance in the the wording of the Act that LEOSA covers anything other than "CCW" weapons, and in my opinion, LEOSA does not cover long guns.

4) The current NJ AWB ban does not differentiate between a currently sworn NJ police officer, who is in good standing in their department, has having a difference in on-duty and off-duty status. The State AG currently guides that Officers sworn in NJ are exempt from all provisions of the AWB at all times, unless they are conducting other illegal behavior. 

The exemption is found here:

NJSA 2C:39-6(7)

  2C:39-6  Exemptions:
   2C:39-6. a. Provided a person complies with the requirements of subsection j. of this section,
   N.J.S.2C:39-5 does not apply to:
      (7) (a) A regularly employed member, including a detective, of the police department of any
      county or municipality, or of any State, interstate, municipal or county park police force or
      boulevard police force, at all times while in the State of New Jersey;

There is no letter or documentation needed to possess a firearm that is declared an AW by NJ. NFA stuff is still forbidden (SBR, suppressor, DD, full auto, etc...). Buying an assault weapon is another story. I don't know of any NJ FFL that will transfer NJ defined AW to a LEO without department letterhead and a Chief's signature authorizing the sale.

For # 1 - Does a retired out of state LEO who never was sworn in NJ - require a permit to carry in NJ?  If not why then does NJ require retired sworn NJ LEO's to have a permit?

For # 3 under LEOSA - given the new ten round limit - along with the LEO exemption - that is currently written - does this apply to retired NJ sworn officers and also to out of state sworn, but residing in NJ officers not sworn in NJ?

 

 

 

Thanks for all the clarifications........

 

1) No permit required as far as I know - but I have 10 years ‘til retirement. Retired LEO from outside of NJ also do not need a permit. All retired LEO need to do is ensure that they satisfy all LEOSA requirements for qualifying and carrying of retirement credentials. LEOSA covers everything in NJ now. The State used to required a CCW permit prior to LEOSA. 

3) NJ has two exceptions to the new 10 round limit - one for currently sworn officers and another for retired officers. The exceptions allow both groups to carry magazines up to 15 rounds. It does not differentiate between officers from N.J. or officers that are/were sworn out of state but now reside in New Jersey.

As usual, this is all subject to change and some interpretation. 

50 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

For # 1 - Does a retired out of state LEO who never was sworn in NJ - require a permit to carry in NJ?  If not why then does NJ require retired sworn NJ LEO's to have a permit?

For # 3 under LEOSA - given the new ten round limit - along with the LEO exemption - that is currently written - does this apply to retired NJ sworn officers and also to out of state sworn, but residing in NJ officers not sworn in NJ?

 

 

 

Thanks for all the clarifications........

 

#1 NJ no longer requires a retired LEO to get a permit if they only carry concealed.  They only require a retired LEO who open carries as part of their job to obtain a permit.

The NJ requirement for a retired LEO who is a NJ resident to obtain a permit was pretty much bs.  They could carry under LEOSA as long as they met the requirements.  Federal law trumps state law all the time.

#3 The law exempts retired LEOs "authorized to carry a firearm in the state" from the 10 rd limit and can carry up to 15rd magazines.  Says nothing about having to be a resident.  They can be covered under LEOSA.

Not sure what you mean about officers residing in NJ but not sworn in NJ.  Every state, county, and local LE agency I know of requires at least state residency.  If you're talking about Federal LEOs they can ignore state law and are only subject to the policies of their agency.

@High Exposure responded to this while I was typing. That's because he's at least 60 years younger than me and types faster.  I figured I'd finish my post.

41 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

#1 NJ no longer requires a retired LEO to get a permit if they only carry concealed.  They only require a retired LEO who open carries as part of their job to obtain a permit.

The NJ requirement for a retired LEO who is a NJ resident to obtain a permit was pretty much bs.  They could carry under LEOSA as long as they met the requirements.  Federal law trumps state law all the time.

#3 The law exempts retired LEOs "authorized to carry a firearm in the state" from the 10 rd limit and can carry up to 15rd magazines.  Says nothing about having to be a resident.  They can be covered under LEOSA.

Not sure what you mean about officers residing in NJ but not sworn in NJ.  Every state, county, and local LE agency I know of requires at least state residency.  If you're talking about Federal LEOs they can ignore state law and are only subject to the policies of their agency.

@High Exposure responded to this while I was typing. That's because he's at least 60 years younger than me and types faster.  I figured I'd finish my post.

Right, thanks Griz. I forgot about the Permit/SORA for employment with a firearm. 

Thanks for clearing it all up.

 

Ha! Yeah. Clear as mud.

2 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Ha! Yeah. Clear as mud.

crazy right??  LOL 

 

 

And why do we have two classes of people? Sounds like equal protection clause lawsuit to me.


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12 minutes ago, capt14k said:

And why do we have two classes of people? Sounds like equal protection clause lawsuit to me.


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100% Agree.

In fact, on duty firearms should be ten round max as well, and any rifles/shotguns issued by the department should have to conform to all Assault Weapons Ban provisions.

Since NJ has banned things such as a pistol grip on semi-auto shotgun or handguns that take 11 rounds, no one has them anymore right? So why do the police need to carry such things? Seems overkill to me!

10 hours ago, High Exposure said:

1) Yes - Because LEOSA

2) Yes - Again LEOSA

For both 1 & 2 the mag limit laws must be obeyed. LEOSA covers the actual firearm and the ammo carried (out of state police can carry hollow points if that is what is issued to the MOS by their agency) but does not exempt officers from magazine limits imposed by the state you are in.

3) This has not been tested to my knowledge, but in my opinion no, an out of state LEO can not violate the NJ AWB unless they are on official duty. The best test case would be an AR pistol as defined federally (but would be defined as an Assault Weapon in NJ) that an officer has qualified on and carries as as CCW. Technically LEOSA should cover it, but I would not want to find out what that process is like. I can also find no guidance in the the wording of the Act that LEOSA covers anything other than "CCW" weapons, and in my opinion, LEOSA does not cover long guns.

4) The current NJ AWB ban does not differentiate between a currently sworn NJ police officer, who is in good standing in their department, has having a difference in on-duty and off-duty status. The State AG currently guides that Officers sworn in NJ are exempt from all provisions of the AWB at all times, unless they are conducting other illegal behavior. 

The exemption is found here:

NJSA 2C:39-6(7)

  2C:39-6  Exemptions:
   2C:39-6. a. Provided a person complies with the requirements of subsection j. of this section,
   N.J.S.2C:39-5 does not apply to:
      (7) (a) A regularly employed member, including a detective, of the police department of any
      county or municipality, or of any State, interstate, municipal or county park police force or
      boulevard police force, at all times while in the State of New Jersey;

There is no letter or documentation needed to possess a firearm that is declared an AW by NJ. NFA stuff is still forbidden (SBR, suppressor, DD, full auto, etc...). Buying an assault weapon is another story. I don't know of any NJ FFL that will transfer NJ defined AW to a LEO without department letterhead and a Chief's signature authorizing the sale.

why hasn't this been challanged just as the 15 round limit is now being challenged?    seems exactly the same to me

why hasn't this been challanged just as the 15 round limit is now being challenged?    seems exactly the same to me

Just another example why current ANJRPC leadership needs to go.

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20 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Just another example why current ANJRPC leadership needs to go.

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Why, is Bob Viden still involved with them?

Why, is Bob Viden still involved with them?

I think he now has a national position.

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It sounds like the poster's question has been fully answered... rather than going down a rabbit hole (which we've been known to do, lol)...if you want to debate the various 2A orgs, just open up another thread in the 1A Lounge. Thx.