I know NJ says 'justifiable need" and here is my situation.... I have been involved in a lengthy case in NJ superior court , 2 plus years.... A family member embezzled about 1.3 million from a family trust.... The case is almost over..... Along the way we received tons of documents but will only reference the one that matters in this instance and why they turned over these particular documents is beyond me...... Some covert recordings were made by the family member.... Some conversations with me..... Some with others......... The conversations were transcribed to paper and we were given digital copies of the audio recordings also...... Now to the interesting part.... One of the many conversations is between 3 people, the accused and her 2 adult children.....They have a discussion where they talk about hiring someone to kill me.....They go into some detail about how it should be done and all agree that it is a great idea...... I find this extremely disturbing.... Do I have justifiable need in the eyes of New Jersey ?????

My guess is: No.

Not that I agree with that.

Try?

I wish you luck if you try but I don't think anyone has gotten a permit to carry for being in danger or fear of danger.

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No you need to let them kill you first, then you have a 5% chance in NJ.

Wow I would at least bring this to the authorities...however in NJ your not allowed to record people without their permission...I can't image one of the dumdass said hey let's record this conversation some can remember it later.

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6 minutes ago, cewoz560 said:

Wow I would at least bring this to the authorities...however in NJ your not allowed to record people without their permission...I can't image one of the dumdass said hey let's record this conversation some can remember it later.

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Actually that’s not true. N.J. is a one party state.

2 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Actually that’s not true. N.J. is a one party state.

Correct - hence the Project Veritas stuff regarding the NJEA Coverups, and the NJ2AS videos regarding Orange PD and others

Was the person making the recording present when the recording was made? You say it was between the accused and their 2 adult children. If it wasn't made by sone one present at the conversation the recording is illegal.

1 hour ago, cewoz560 said:

Wow I would at least bring this to the authorities...however in NJ your not allowed to record people without their permission...I can't image one of the dumdass said hey let's record this conversation some can remember it later.

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Actually that came up in superior court a month or so back..... You can record in NJ without consent .... PA is a 2 consent state and some of the recordings were made in PA..... Recording in PA without consent is a 3rd degree felony and using the recording is also a separate 3rd degree felony.... 

1 hour ago, cewoz560 said:

Wow I would at least bring this to the authorities...however in NJ your not allowed to record people without their permission...I can't image one of the dumdass said hey let's record this conversation some can remember it later.

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My lawyer has everything.... All of these documents have been submitted to the Superior Court as evidence....  Most people think their conversation was just hyperbole but anyone willing to steal that much money and thinks they can get away with it has to be somewhat delusional and unpredictable  ......A guilty verdict in Civil Division will certainly lead to indictment and criminal charges......  It is going to get uglier and uglier and I don't want to get hurt because a thief is pissed about getting caught and the consequences are severe for stealing an amount so large.....

  The trial has been going on for about 28 months now......It should be over within the next 6 months I hope.....

13 minutes ago, AMScott said:

Actually that came up in superior court a month or so back..... You can record in NJ without consent .... PA is a 2 consent state and some of the recordings were made in PA..... Recording in PA without consent is a 3rd degree felony and using the recording is also a separate 3rd degree felony.... 

In your case all three of the parties present need to give consent if the recording was made in PA.

Using illegally obtained evidence in order to get a carry permit might not be a good idea.  Your lawyer can advise you.

Definitely apply, we can always use another martyr.

But seriously (even though I was the first time) why don't you just get the family member locked up or confront them about it yourself? 

32 minutes ago, louu said:

Definitely apply, we can always use another martyr.

But seriously (even though I was the first time) why don't you just get the family member locked up or confront them about it yourself? 

I have been in court for 28 months..... I would like my money back first..... Criminal charges will be the onus of the state..... That is the purpose of the indictment....... My only option at this junction is civil..... I am sure that my testimony will be needed at some point but I understand that evidence gathered during the civil trial will be used in the criminal trial.....

I would talk to a 2A Lawyer first, like Mark Cheeseman.  

10 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

I would talk to a 2A Lawyer first, like Mark Cheeseman.  

Cheeseman is esquire?

24 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Cheeseman is esquire?

Wait no I was thinking he was for some reason. Dan Schmutter, Esq. was the one I was thinking of.

Go ahead and apply, other than spending time and money I’m not aware of any “penalty” for applying.

You must meet this standard:

”...in the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self protection as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant’s life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. ...”

What’s the specific threat you’re facing right now? Be *specific*. Got any documentation to back that up?

Were you previously attacked? Got that documented?

What is the special danger to your life right now?

Is there *NO OTHER WAY* you can avoid the specific threat?  This is not a joke - previously a court told an applicant to move his area of business operations or hire an armed security guard rather than issue a permit.

To be clear, I’m not defending this at all, but this is the standard that NJ applies to make it nearly impossible to qualify for a carry permit.

Unless you are a politician or a judge it’s not happening.  The statements were made how many months ago?  The state of NJ does not care about your life.  Unless they actually hired someone and they already tried to kill you, you chance of getting a CCW is basically nothing.

Give it a shot though.

If they were able to take that kind of money from a family trust, there's a good chance you know a few judges or politicians (in other words, it sounds like you're in a different social circle than I am).  You probably have a better shot than most people if you do know some judges/pols, but my guess is that you'd still be denied.

On 11/14/2018 at 0:23 PM, AMScott said:

I know NJ says 'justifiable need" and here is my situation

Probably not regardless of what follows that.

NJ doesn't care about citizens being able to protect themselves.

As I have said before elsewhere, you really need to be murdered two or more times before NJ may consider you at risk enough to qualify. Unless of course the people who stole from you were kind enough to donate all that money to various politicians and judges on your behalf.

That said, you might "luck out"* and qualify.

Just remember if officially denied (i.e. after the judge phase) that you gotta say yes to the "have you ever been denied... " question, then explain why.

 

*lucky you, being threatened to be killed

45 minutes ago, Malice4you said:

...

Just remember if officially denied (i.e. after the judge phase) that you gotta say yes to the "have you ever been denied... " question, then explain why.

....

 

Yes, you'll have to answer the question that you were denied, but it should *NOT* negatively effect the outcome of any future applications.

NJSP Detective Sgt. Brett Bloom has stated at least twice, once that I witnessed personally, that a prior denial for a carry permit for failure to meet justifiable need has *ZERO* bearing on future applications for Purchase Permits, FID or carry permit (Video should start at 10:42):

 

 

You have to die first. Then, you may qualify.

Try before you die

Try, get the best lawyer you can afford for the inevitable appeal, who is an expert in this field. Of course any attorney who wants to spend your money will put their hand up, know when to stop throwing good money after bad, don't hold your breath . i wish you luck sincerely. This state may have to be won one case at a time. 

On 11/14/2018 at 5:18 PM, DirtyDigz said:

Go ahead and apply, other than spending time and money I’m not aware of any “penalty” for applying.

You must meet this standard:

”...in the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self protection as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant’s life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. ...”

What’s the specific threat you’re facing right now? Be *specific*. Got any documentation to back that up?

Were you previously attacked? Got that documented?

What is the special danger to your life right now?

Is there *NO OTHER WAY* you can avoid the specific threat?  This is not a joke - previously a court told an applicant to move his area of business operations or hire an armed security guard rather than issue a permit.

To be clear, I’m not defending this at all, but this is the standard that NJ applies to make it nearly impossible to qualify for a carry permit.

This is very important to show cause, A gut feeling or feeling threatened in NJ is not enough

I'd say get a pro bono team to fight for your rights here and take it all the way to the sc for all of us in NJ.  PLEASE

24 minutes ago, myhatinthering said:

I'd say get a pro bono team to fight for your rights here and take it all the way to the sc for all of us in NJ.  PLEASE

What pro bono team do you know of or recommend?

 

no clue, I'd say go to the ACLU  lol