it seems in new jersey your home is not necessarily your castle......you have a duty to retreat.......

 

your thoughts on this subject and your right for self defense...........

Some people believe that you do what you need to do when you need to do it and that if a recently deceased gremlin is found behind KMart and not on your living room floor, you are not involved. Some have even gone so far as to purchase a body bag at the fun show should such a need arise. Some have even rationalized that replacing a blood stained carpet costs much less than hiring a lawyer. This is all supposition, of course, and not something I would condone in a public forum.

Some people believe that you do what you need to do when you need to do it and that if a recently deceased gremlin is found behind KMart and not on your living room floor, you are not involved. Some have even gone so far as to purchase a body bag at the fun show should such a need arise. Some have even rationalized that replacing a blood stained carpet costs much less than hiring a lawyer. This is all supposition, of course, and not something I would condone in a public forum.

 

Are you sure your name is not Nicholas Soprano?

 

I have a friend of a friend who knows a guy who has a wood chipper and a pressure washer and some bleach 8-)

wow that's some scary shit....... :shock: :shock: :shock:

The "Three S Rule"

 

Shoot

Shovel

Shut the f*&k up

 

K

The "Three S Rule"

 

Shoot

Shovel

Shut the f*&k up

 

K

1 word.. Omerta

Good 3 S system

NJ Castle Doctrine: It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

NJ Castle Doctrine: It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

When it comes down to it, I couldn't agree more!!

 

You do what you have to in order to protect your family.

I have never heard that. What does it mean?

I have never heard that. What does it mean?

The Sacred Code of Silence..

 

Omert

or ....

 

in my best brooklynese.....

 

yu open yur moutha...i breaka yu facia.....capisce....??

 

I miss the old neighborhood..... :cry:

Not bad for typing it out

"3 S's" SOUNDS all nice and tough guy on the internet..but im telling you right now, that a good, solit Defensive shoot will be treated by me as such...Once you try to cover things up however...NOW you go from "Good Guy in a bad Spot" to "Maybe a Bad Guy since he tried to cover it, he MUST be in the wrong somewhere on this". Nevermind all of the concurrent (And in NJ Indictable ie. Felony) charges which will Start out with Hindering, and go WAY down hill from there.

I think the issue here is that it varies from investigator to investigator. Here in NJ, we have no clear cut rules on HD.

 

What if I shoot someone who is breaking into my home? Can they sue me?

 

Where can I make my stand? Can I shoot them where they're entering? Or do I have to corner myself and wait there? What if I shoot them and they were only halfway into my house when I did? What if I did not yell a verbal command to stop?

 

Can I "arrest" the person? What if he runs, or disobeys my commands to 'freeze'? Can I shoot him? How do I know he isn't armed and seeking cover? Maybe he has a toy gun?

 

Too much ambiguity.

That whole situation you described sounds very excessive. Shooting upon entry seems to be a bit simpler and safer.

 

Again... the situation is really dependent on the scenario. Hence the need an established rule of law that is simply this: If you enter my home without permission, all bets are off.

 

Another scenario: Let's say I catch someone in my driveway trying to steal my car? Can I run out and point my gun at him or shoot him to prevent escape? He is intruding on private property and trying to steal said property...

 

Nickjc, I know you are trying to help, and I agree with your assessment, but it seems that right now, there is no real adequate means of defending yourself without severe repercussion.

 

What if that person you beat with a club sues you for damages and healthcare costs? What if you kill him, and his family sues you for lost wages?

You can not try and shoot someone if they are trying to steal your car. You must be in clear and imanate danger with no other means. If the person flees you must let them. You would be hard pressed to find a jury to side with you for shooting someone in the back.

Shooting upon entry seems to be a bit simpler and safer.

 

Is that going to be your defense in a criminal trial? how about the inevitable civil trial? Getting the finer points of the Use of Deadly Force on the internet is about as useful as getting lesson in brain surgery the same way.

 

Looking for a reason to shoot someone. They are taking my car? Is the car worth the fifty thousand or so the lawyer will be charging for the court appearence? Avoiding is the smart way to go short of serious injury to yourself or your family.

I'm just trying to say, that without established guidelines for home defense, it's all open to argument. Other states with established Castle Defense are a bit more "friendly" to those who defend themselves. In NJ... you can be crucified for one mistake. (If you kept a loaded weapon in a house full of kids, if you didn't issue a warning loud enough, etc.)

 

Homeowners need to be protected. People who willingly enter a private premises without permission do not.

I'm just trying to say, that without established guidelines for home defense, it's all open to argument. Other states with established Castle Defense are a bit more "friendly" to those who defend themselves. In NJ... you can be crucified for one mistake. (If you kept a loaded weapon in a house full of kids, if you didn't issue a warning loud enough, etc.)

 

Homeowners need to be protected. People who willingly enter a private premises without permission do not.

At the end of all of this I agree with you on the fundamentals. I wish there was something in place that allowed a homeowner to protect his/her family without the worry of the legal issues to follow.

 

A Burglar once inside my house should have no rights, not to sue, not to live. Not saying I am going to go chase them down, or shoot as they open the door, but if I wake up to someone walking around my house I should have the right to end it right there without the worry about what will follow in the courts!!

I'm just trying to say, that without established guidelines for home defense, it's all open to argument. Other states with established Castle Defense are a bit more "friendly" to those who defend themselves. In NJ... you can be crucified for one mistake. (If you kept a loaded weapon in a house full of kids, if you didn't issue a warning loud enough, etc.)

 

Homeowners need to be protected. People who willingly enter a private premises without permission do not.

At the end of all of this I agree with you on the fundamentals. I wish there was something in place that allowed a homeowner to protect his/her family without the worry of the legal issues to follow.

 

A Burglar once inside my house should have no rights, not to sue, not to live. Not saying I am going to go chase them down, or shoot as they open the door, but if I wake up to someone walking around my house I should have the right to end it right there without the worry about what will follow in the courts!!

 

Exactly, that is the point I was trying to make. Without such legislation, you are at the mercy of your town police and local courts and their interpretation of your actions.

Without such legislation, you are at the mercy of your town police and local courts and their interpretation of your actions

 

To a large degree you still are. Read the entire case and you will find there are many areas that must be satisfied to be covered under such legislation. some seem to think it is a blanket coverage to allow the use of deadly force without any repercussions. that is very far from the truth. While we have such legislation on the books residents have been charged when using firearms in the home.

that sure is sad....in this day and age in this crapp state you can't defend yourself....someone stealing your car or breaking into you're house has more rights than you do......undable to stop them from stealing your car or else the lawyers will eat you alive......sure is sad that the criminal has all the rights and the law abiding citizens are nothing but their prey.... :x :x

Use of deadly force in the protection of property has been denied for many years. I don't think my car is worth someone's life.

Use of deadly force in the protection of property has been denied for many years. I don't think my car is worth someone's life.

I agree with you, my house and my car are two different categories.

Use of deadly force in the protection of property has been denied for many years. I don't think my car is worth someone's life.

I agree with you, my house and my car are two different categories.

 

I disagree ,that

Use of deadly force in the protection of property has been denied for many years. I don't think my car is worth someone's life.

I agree with you, my house and my car are two different categories.

 

I disagree ,that

I have children and a dog, if the low life gets in to my house and gets by the dog by killing her now do I have the right to shoot and kill this perp.?

I have children and a dog, if the low life gets in to my house and gets by the dog by killing her now do I have the right to shoot and kill this perp.?

 

The question doesn't make any sense. Are you questioning is the actor poses a threat? seems somewhat self evident at that point.

 

As far as Florida's legislation, it is being vastly oversimplified. I'm always amazed that so many are willing to go through the motions to obtain a permit to carry and yet not take the time to educate themselves in their state;s laws and the applicable case law related to it. It seems too many are simply satisfied to log on and take a gospel the writings of a complete stranger who may or may not have a clue concerning the laws of the Use of Force. The time to find out that you are in a precarious legal position is not after the force is utilized. The catchy phrases uttered time after time will not make you all warm and fuzzy when you are writing out that retainer check for five figures as a down payment on your legal defense. Lawyers always will tell you remain silent and to call them. They also won't give you the time of day until they are paid up front.

Use of deadly force in the protection of property has been denied for many years. I don't think my car is worth someone's life.

 

 

your car might not be but mine is

I know what the Jersey law is, it is as always for the criminal.

 

I am tired of hearing my property is not worth someones life, as if we are qualified to know what they think their life is worth. It is up to them to determine if their life is worth what they want to steal. If they value their life more than the car, then don't try and steal it.

 

I work hard for my stuff and the thought that it is ok to take it from me because you want it is inane. We need to stop empathizing with the criminals. If they need to be beat down to learn a lesson, so be it.