GRIZ

Yes but we're talking non hollowpoint ammo here. The non hollowpoint ammo premium ammo available hasn't impressed me enough to pay the $1 or more a round they're asking for. One shot stops are usually defined as the bad guy stopping agressive action. If you research one shot stops you'll find in most of them the wounds inflicted are survivable. Most are not in themselves disabling. Many one shot stops are the result of the person being shot simply stopping because they don't want to be shot again. There are really only three ways any animal dies from a single gunshot wound. You hit the medulla oblongata, the central processing unit, that controls heartbeat and breathing. You hit the heart, the pump. Or they bleed out. The first two targets are pretty small. Hard to hit in any animal. Even hit in the heart the animal can keep going for a minute or longer. I've known of more than one deer that was shot through the heart running 100 yards or farther. More than one man who kept going for a minute or so too. Bleeding out can take longer than a few minutes. Requirements for expanding hunting ammo are designed to encourage bleed out if hit in a non vital area so the animal won't suffer a prolonged death from infection. Animals don't know they are supposed to stop when shot. People do. There are documented cases where people take multiple gunshot wounds and keep fighting. 15-20 years ago there was a LEO who died from a gunshot wound in the upper arm. Totally survivable wound if if left untreated for days. He died from shock. Overpenetration is a consideration but is over thought IMO. I like Speer Gold Dot 124 JHP. I don't think it's a magic bullet and would use any other bullet that would feed well and is reasonably accurate in my gun. I pick Gold Dots to discuss as they were used in shootings by NYPD. There was the guy with the knife that was hit, the rounds penetrated his body, and the fully expanded bullets were stopped by his heavy work jacket. The shooting at the Empire State Building found NYPD officers being criticized for missing so many times and injuring (none seriously) bystanders. Most ignored the post shooting forensics which showed the bullet fragments injuring the bystanders were all from bullets that had penetrated the bad guy first. Yes, there are other considerations but here the bullet performance varied. I say NATO spec not because it's a littler hotter than SAAMI spec. A manufacturer can load it's ammo right up to SAAMI spec or a little softer. Not sure if that little softer will function well in my gun. I know NATO Spec will. I'm not a fan of +P and most 9mm pistols are designed to function with NATO spec.

All the premium "defense ammo" will do nothing I'd you don't hit vitals. I carry WW NATO Spec 124 fmj.

I guess you missed the part where I said what the cop makes is a small part vs the 5 or 6 guys making $30 an hour for knowing how to use a broom. This is you and me now Newtonian. If you want to continue this we should go to PM.

My take on the Higginbottom case is she was using a hard sided suitcase with a zipper. TSA requires a hard sided case "not easily opened". I don't know what the prosecutor was smoking but she clearly fit and was complying with the moving exemption under NJ state law. JMO

All those laws, regulations, and rules were brought about by those Tammany Hall types. Not by cops, not by prisecutors. Sullivan Law in NY is a good example. You apply for a pistol permit and they find out you're registered with the "wrong" party, denied. Want to reduce the the numbers of those voting against you? Plant a gun on them. Instant felon. Can't vote anymore. Relatives of politicians have what amounts to immunity. I don't think many will agree with you to bring back graft and corruption. What goes on now is bad enough. There's a couple things out there you fail to mention when you describe how a pothole gets fixed today. That cop getting overtime is paid by the contractor not the city. I know some, maybe all, insurance companies have this as a requirement for the contractor. You break no law if you fail to stop to stop for the laborer with a stop/slow sign. You break a law if you fail to stop for a cop. You break a law if you insist on speeding through the construction site when the police car is sitting there with the lights on. This is a result of the litigious society we live in. You see it on this forum all the time. Cop doesn't talk nice to you. Sue them! What the cop make is a small part of the total cost. After the union truck driver delivers the asphalt the union paver fills the hole. Then you have to have a union laborer, at what $30 a hour,stand around while all this is being done so he can sweep the street when it's all done. Training for union laborers must be intense. Use a broom, use a shovel, carry a bag of cement. I never said anything about supporting the laws Aitken was charged with. They are the result in Tammany Hall type politics in NJ. Aitken's actions during his "ordeal" was what created his "ordeal". He could have avoided the entire episode if he acted as responsible adult when he talked with his mother.

I prefaced my first response with read the TSA regs to keep it short. More details requested? I'll fill that request. You go to counter. Tell clerk you have a firearm to declare. Show ID. I've always just shown drivers license. The clerk can ask to show the gun is unloaded. If so, do this low key and don't put the gun on the counter. You handle gun they don't. The only place I've ever had that happen is O'Hare. The clerk has you sign a card that days "declared firearm". You sign it and I've always put it in the hard side case containing my firearm. Never had any problem with this. I do this so if the suitcase breaks open the card won't be lost. The "declared firearm" card is printed with metallic ink so it shows up on xray. No one is given the key or touches the firearm but you. I have the locked hardsided case in an aluminum Haliburton that's locked. I have the locked hard sided case inside a locked hardsided case. This is not required but I've never had any issues. You wait for or walk over with the airline rep to take your luggage to TSA. Sometimes they tell you to wait at the counter. Sometimes they tell you to walk over to TSA with them. When TSA says okay you then go through normal security screening. This is what I've done at least a dozen airports including Newark, LaGuardia, and JFK. A friend who is a retired LEO living in FL and was flying out of LaGuardia had an incident at LaGuardia. PAPD asked him where he was coming from which was NYC. He showed them his credentials as required by LEOSA and that was the end of the conversation. I've flown out of there and the only ID I've ever shown was my drivers license and never had any encounter with PAPD. I think what PAPD is interested in is people who come to NY and stay in NY with their handgun. No inside info on this just an educated guess. The only issue I ever had was in Kansas City. They have private screener not TSA when I was there. The guy insisted on me giving him the combo to the suitcase and key to the hard sided case containing the firearm. The suitcase was not in my sight. I told him I'd give him the combo but not the key as that was a violation of TSA regs. He said neither my suitcase or I was getting on that plane without him checking it. I told him I was willing to open it as long as I was there but I wasn't going to violate TSA regs. I said I would report him to TSA and they could review all the security camera videos of him opening firearms containers without the passenger present. The screener had a brief conference amongst themselves then took me and my suitcase to a private area where I could open everything and be present during the inspection.

Google and read TSA requirement. Gun must be in a locked hard case with lock. Not TSA lock. Only you have key. Have ammo in factory box. I usually put gun and ammo in locked hardsided case and put that into a Halliburton suitcase with a lock. Declare at counter (no curbside check in). Put card you get from airline clerk in case with gun. Lock it up. Wait for TSA check and go on your way. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes.

Newtonian, you may know a dozen cops. How many Federal 1811 criminal investigators do you know? FBI, DEA, Secret Service, HSI, ATF, etc. That's what I did for those 27 years. Google Availability Pay and Administratively Uncontrollable Overtime. Thats explains how it works. If you're on a surveillance and something happens requiring you to stay with it you just don't go home. If you have a container with a few hundred kilos of coke delivered to a trucking yard you have to sit on it. That may take days, weeks, or months. Your case is in trial and a defense witness' testimony is a lie. The agent has until tomorrow to prove that witness is lying or you lose the case. The FBI agents going through all those emails are probably working 10-12 hours a day. Availability pay reimburses them at straight time for the first 2 hours of OT. The rest is a gift. No I did not follow John Gotti or work in Mayberry in the 30s. You talk of the resources used in someone fighting a traffic ticket. I agree the fine and court costs don't come close to reimbursing the state. The problem is the Constitution guarantees you those rights. You have these rights even if you shoot someone. Should we do away with the Constitution, trials, etc. Bad things will always happen to nice people. Firefighters don't do much until your house is burning down. There is no shortage of stories of firefighters going into burning buildings to rescue people. Should we get rid of them too. It takes about 12-15 years (college, med school, residency) to become a doctor. I, for one, like my doctor to be well educated. Unless their family is rich or they get full scholarships doctors have big loans to pay off. Doctors who have big loans to pay off usually don't start making any money until they're 40. They are many people who make money because of other people's trobule or disaster. Do you advocate getting rid of all of them? I don't know all the details (and neither do you) of the guy getting 18 months for shooting someone. There may be many reasons for this. Witnesses move away. There was probable cause for arrest and indictment but not enough to ensure conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm just guessing. The prosecutor had the choice to offer him a deal or let him walk. Not saying I agree with the deal but can understand how it could have resulted in that deal. Knowing someone did something and convincing a jury beyond a reasonable doubt are two different things. I don't see any harm in someone loading all their guns and hollowpoints in their trunk and driving around with them there all the time. The law in NJ says you can't. If you want to stay out of trobule don't break the law. Aitken got caught. He was offered a deal after his arrest. IIRC they offered him a year jail time. Being the good little boy he is he may have done 90 days. If he had taken this there wouldn't have been his book or Wikipedia entry on him. He kept insisting he did nothing wrong and went to trial. His attorney didn't do a good enough job to guarantee the jury was aware of the moving exemption. That was his entire defense. He lost got 7 years. Not the poster boy.

First of all prior convictions are figured in to the sentencing guidelines. You need to educate yourself on Federal Sentencing Guidelines (Sentencing Reform Act of 1984). The manual is available on line. Your statement that it's a crooked system and everyone in it would have to work for a living is false. Most people in the system work hard. I don't think you've done a study of what cops, prosecutors, etc actually do. I suppose like others you probably want to go back to the old days. Yeah the old days. When cops paid off a councilman to get on the department or get promoted, someone with influence will always get off, judges could be bought, and all that good old day stuff. Let's have those days back when a kid would get his ass kicked just because he was in the wrong neighborhood and no one got arrested. Prosecutors can't just dismiss a case without a reason. Their job is to prosecute. Where are all these cases where "prosecutorial discretion" used? Those of you being critical really haven't paid attention to what I've been writing. I've only been explaining why this guy only got 5 years. I never said I agreed with this guy getting 5 years. I could care if he got 500 years and most cops and prosecutors would agree with me. I was and will continue to be critical of cases like Aitken. He appears to be a non-thinking whiner who never thought what the consequences of his actions. Not a poster boy in my book. Someone made the comment about the cops always showing up and resulting in someone being arrested. That's what they're supposed to do if a crime was committed. I don't know about others but I've never invited the cops to witness whatever personal drama was going on. I said this earlier. If you don't like the laws blame the lawmakers not the cops and prosecutors.

There is no time requirement for dual tesidency as far as ATF is concerned. You can live 2 weeks in FL, a month in NJ, etc. As long as you maintain two residences you are a dual state resident.

People have demanded police be more accountable. Body cameras, field cards filled out on every vehicle stop, no more letting people slide for minor offenses. You don't know of cops letting people go for that9 box of hollowpoints. There is no publicity for times cops still let someone go. The cops aren't talking about and the people they let go certainly don't talk about it. How often does it happen? Don't know but to say you'd always get arrested is not right either. Cops have to make arrests they normally may not have made as its their ass on the line if they don't. Hard to let someone slide now. After the arrests are made prosecutors have to deal with what's there. Dismiss it? Amother crooked prosecutor who was paid off people say. There were more than one time I arrested someone who got railroaded into being part of a crime. No matter what my feelings were I had to arrest them and introduce them to the CJ system. Don't blame the cops and prosecutors. Blame the politicians who passed those laws. How is that cop finding that box of hollowpoints and 16 rd magazine to start with? Because someone did something stupid. Like Brian Aitken. I'll go over it again in case you forgot, 1. Said something that worried his mother so much she called 911. 2. When police were there he was called and asked to return. He knew he had gun, mags, bullets in his car. Instead of saying "Everything's okay. Sorry I said that. On my way to my new crash pad", he returned. 3. He was talking with cops at his mother's house for about an hour. 4. He gave cops permission to search his car knowing what they would find. 5. Some time after he was arrested He was offered a plea deal. He refused to take it and wanted to go to trial. 6. At one point he said he had the gun because his room mate didn't want them in the apartment during a party. IIRC this was what his room mate testified to at the trial. Another time Aitken claimed he was moving. What's the truth? 7. On appeal, gun thrown out because judge didn't explain moving exemption to jury. Magazines thrown out because they weren't tested. Christie commuted the sentence for hollowpoints. All because he whined to his mother.

You don't show much knowledge of how criminal investigation works. You say work harder. I used to average about 60 hours of overtime a month. There were times I worked over 100 hrs and I remember one month when I broke 200 hrs of overtime. No I wasn't getting time and a half for all those hours. I was paid straight time for the first 40 hours and anything over that was a gift. I did that for 27 years. How much harder should I have worked? Many of those hours were on cases where we had gotten information from criminals that we had arrested. Ever try to make a case on crime that was committed over a year before? I have. It isn't easy. You talk about frustration. How would you feel if you were the ATF agents who worked this case? These were agents who were out there to catch a genuine criminal. Not some guy in NJ who gave his brother in PA a shotgun without going through a FFL. Apparently 5 years is what the Federal Sentencing Guidelines said he should get. Thats sucks you say? Before they were adopted back in the 80s he probably would have got less. He had to give up a lot to get his sentence down to 5 years. Thats not even talking about cases that go to trial, the prosecution has everything done correctly,and the judge threatens to replace the defense counsel as the attorney was bordering on not properly representing his client. But you get the 12 bumpkins on a jury that find this criminal not guilty. I'm not talking jury nullification. I'm talking about a case that appeared a slam dunk lost because there were morons on the jury. Yeah this guy got off with 5 years. But if he gave up 10 other cretins I'd rather spend 1000 hrs to catch all of them than spend that time to catch 2. Many forget that all those Constitutional protections they keep screaming about apply to criminals too. I can't speak for all cops. I do know that contrary to what a lot of people think most cops, on all levels, are out there to catch genuine criminals. They're not out there to catch you with a 16 round magazine or that box of hollowpoints you didn't take out of your trunk. Most of those cases with I forgot my gun was in the glovebox or I have a carry permit in PA and got caught with my gun in NJ are the result of people not taking the time to make themselves aware of the law. Owning and carrying guns comes with responsibilities. I'm not defending NJ's stupid gun laws but you need to follow them to stay out of jail. I'll repeat here what I have in the past. Brian Aitken is no 2A poster boy. If he didn't say something to worry his Mother so much she called the police he wouldn't have had his legal problems. I have duscussed this at length in other threads. Just about everyone said what a good job those Linden cops did catching that bomber a few weeks ago. I guarantee you there's a few people out there calling them jerks because the same cop gave them a ticket for a red light since. The size of police departments is dictated by their crime rates. A smaller town with a high crime rate will have more cops than a larger town with a lower crime rate. As a result, most cops are usually just as busy no matter where they work. The exception is there are never enough cops in those towns with high crime rates. Yes, there are lazy cops. Same as there are lazy people in all other types of jobs. Thats the exception not the rule.

If the information this guy results in taking 10 other criminals off the streets do you think it's worth giving the guy only 5 years?

Try putting fresh batteries in it.

Forget about not giving them your address. Your address has to go on the P2P or COE. You have to give them your address anyway. I will either go to the buyer or sellers house or wherever they feel comfortable. If I come to your house you can be wearing your Glock if you want. It's your house. If you come to my house I will be wearing mine. I can understand concern for your safety. I'd say if someone from this forum who's been a bit would be pretty safe to deal with.

Any AUSA would be willing to take this to trial. Even if he was found guilty on some of the charges it would have gotten him 10-20 years. At a proffer his attorney obviously cut a deal. You can get a lot of time off your sentence but no one bargains down to zero. I have personal knowledge of a guy caught smuggling a few kilos of coke. It would be a slam dunk prosecution for the AUSA. He decided to flip and helped make about a dozen more prosecution's with about 20 arrests. He was looking at 10-15 years and he got 3. Federal sentencing guidelines dictate how much time someone gets. What their degree of involvement was and how much did they cooperate after they were arrested. Say nothing and go to trial get found guilty. Cooperate and plea a lot less time. This is figured out by US Probation and Parole. I never saw a judge that gave someone LESS time USP&P suggested. This guy pled out. He has no appeal rights. His sentence was agreed upon before he went back to court. He must have told the AUSA and ATF a bit. He may go into a halfway house his last few months but he will do 5 years

No parole in the Federal system. You get 5 years you do 5 years. He must have flipped a lot of people to get his sentence down to 5 years.

One of this country's greatest aviators. He was doing aerobatics until he was near 80 years old. May he RIP.

Many overlook the hazard of asking the state to define what is "reasonable". If the state doesn't do so reasonable stays open to interpretation by the citizen, police, the prosecutor, the judge, appeals courts, etc. Somewhere along the line you will probably find someone who agrees with you. IIRC, at some point Sweeney offered to go along a list of what was considered reasonable in the statute. If it wasnt on this list you would have been in violation. If going to the emergency room from the range because your mother called you and said your father had a heart attack wasn't listed you're screwed. The current AG directive still leaves other "reasonable" deviations up to judgement. It lists a few "reasonable" deviations but doesn't limit reasonable to these. The deviation I listed above could be included. Be careful of what you ask for.

Jack's advice is the easiest to get this done IMO.

I got to fire a 7615 for a bit a few years ago. It was accurate. I shot 2" or even a bit less at 100 yds. The down sides were it was difficult to manipulate in the prone. IIRC there is a sliding plate that rides under the bolt. This required you to point the rifle skyward to load a magazine at times. You also had to vigorously pump the action to avoid feeding issues. It may be the thing for some people. If I had to have a non semi, compact rifle I'd go for a bolt or levee gun. JMO.

PK90, didn't the NJAG complain to the CMP that sending rifles directly to NJ residents was illegal under NJ law as transfers in NJ have to be face to face?

I'm not defending NJ gun laws. But they are what they are. However none of your examples deal with "reasonable deviation" going to or coming from a range. Many of the examples you list are someone who through their own stupidity got arrested. Most of them deal with someone violating NJ gun laws which thousands of people deal with without getting arrested. If a permit was acquired for filming the movie the "actor" would not have been arrested. The security guard who "forgot" he left the loaded gun in his glovebox would not have been arrested if he were more responsible about knowing where his loaded gun was. The PA Correction Officer was not covered under LEOSA and did not have a NJ permit. People need to stop making Brian Aitken a poster boy. He told conflicting stories at times, "I was moving" and "my roommate was having a party and wanted the guns out of the house". He said something to his mother that worried her so much she called police because she was afraid "he was going to hurt himself". If he didn't say something stupid to his mother, none of it would have happened. He returned to his mother's house knowing the police were there. He talked with them over an hour and then let police search his car without a warrant. No poster boy here. Just someone who whined to his mother and created a situation that resulted in his arrest. I agree the gun with the antique gun and the guy from Utah shouldn't have been arrested considering the facts of those cases. Still no cases of someone who stopped at Wawa after the range for gas, a coffee, and to use the bathroom.

"Reasonable" is a term often used in our legal system in this country. Yes, in this country, not only NJ. If you want to believe you will be arrested because you didn't want to crap your pants on the way home from the range go ahead. If you want to believe you will be arrested because you stopped at Wawa on the way home from the range go ahead. Cops don't want to make arrests that don't stick. Prosecutors don't want to manufacture cases they can't win. Neither builds their career on bs arrests and cases. You are free to believe whatever you want.

Reasonable is reasonable.