GRIZ

Buffalo Bore certainly produces rhino roller loads in many calibers. I'm not a fan of hot loads in anything. I will use +P in k frame size revolvers and +P+ in 357s. If I need more than a 9mm or 38 I'll use a 357, more than a 357 I'll go to a 44. If I need more than that I'll use a rifle. @Ray Ray are you going to use those on your hog hunt? I'm pretty sure you'll get through and through penetration with those on most hogs.

Here's the video. About 1/2 hour and worth every minute. I used to.make my people watch it about once a year. About 40 years old but still well worth it.

This doesn't happen only with NYC cops. It can happen in any group of armed individuals. It's called "contagious shooting" and happens more than a lot of people think. Don't confuse this with shooting until the bad guy goes down. Gunfighting isn't USPSA or IDPA where you put 2 rounds in each target and you move on. You may put 2 or 3 rounds in a bad guy and he still is fighting. Also don't confuse the number of shots fired by a LEO in a gunfight with poor marksmanship. I saw a video of an off duty LEO shooting it out with a bad guy in a fast food place. Clearly a one on one situation. The LEO, who was a mediocre shooter on the range, fired 11 rds from a G26 in about 2 seconds. IIRC 9 rds hit the bad guy. The bad guy was DRT. You need to shoot until the bad guy stops. 1,2,3 or 10rds. Whatever it takes. About 95% of gunfight in is mental. Only 5% is one's ability to shoot well. NYPD Firearms and Tactics study each gunfight to figure out ways to improve training. They, and other LE agencies, have found there is no correlation between how well someone shoots on the range and how someone performs in a gunfight. Yes there are good shooters that do well in a gunfight and there are good shooters who miss the bad guy completely. There are also those marginal shooters who put the bad guy down with one well placed shot. Why? Because that shooting skill is just a tiny part of the fight. Most of the fight is between your ears. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's senseless to practice. Any type of shooting to improve is good. You want that 5% skillset to be as good as it can be. You have to recognize a game is a game and a fight is a fight. More practice doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a better gunfighter. That stuff is only 5%.

There are several issues I wonder about with this gun. Firing 250 rds a second ammo is going through fast and the gun would get hot quick. I've seen M60s fired fast enough to get the barrel to droop. The 7.62 minigun used in helicopters usually has 1000-1500 rds usually in a continuous belt. You'd have to have a few ammo bearers to keep this gun fed. The cyclic rate of a M60, M240, and M249 range from 600-1000 rounds a minute. They can be controlled hand held but it isn't easy. At a cyclic rate of over 14,000 rds a minute I'd think this hard to control. The gun is innovative but I'm still trying to think of a use for it.

I saw someplace else. It would be interesting as a special purpose weapon but it just consumes too much ammo for general issue to the troops IMO.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1002500001 Police work is number 14 with more fatalities than number 1. Watch the logger show and you'll wonder how come more don't get killed. Police work is also the only job where the most common cause of injury is "intentional injury by another person". You don't seem to understand that a lot of police shootings start out as something more mundane. Like the Linden cop who was shot and shot his attacker who already planted bombs in Seaside Park and NYC. The original call was man sleeping in doorway.

There are a handful of ranges in NYC and most of them are clubs requiring membership. Please pull up the video of the Empire State incident. The BG was drawing on the cops. What would you do? Stand there and get shot? Go back and read my earlier post in this thread. The bullets and/or fragments of bullets that hit bystanders has already gone through the bad guy. Also consider this is outside the Empire State Building. Everything around there is concrete, stone. or metal. A ricochet rich environment.

Maybe because I've been hearing this stuff a lot longer.

You certainly have gone to the wrong school of military tactics. NVGs are useful in the offensive so you can see the enemy without giving away your position or in the defense so you can observe the enemy without them knowing you're doing so. If your in the defense yes you do call the artillery and have them fire illumination. The attackers already know where you are. Can't use spotlights the enemy can shoot out. No way for the enemy to put out the lights when the arty is firing illumination. Ah!!! The 1A!!! You realize the COTUS is to protect you from the government not other citizens? You, me, or anyone else on this forum gave no 1A Right to what we post. Just as you, me, or anyone else has any rights when we're on some one else's property. Get your facts straight.

Are you talking outside at the Empire State Building during rush hour? Watch the video on line. The guy came out and started to draw. The cops were faster. The cops did the right thing and shot until the guy went down. The scene was all concrete and metal plenty of chances for ricochets. But if you read the followup article the bystanders were hit by rounds or pieces of rounds that had already gone through the shooter. The problem with weekly practice sessions is no one wants to pay for the ammo and time. There's also the issue of where to shoot in NYC. Back in the old days there was a range in the basement of just about every precinct. OSHA shut all but one down. As of 2005 there was one range in Brooklyn and Rodman's Neck. Both were pretty busy just shooting quals and advance training was done at Rodman's Neck. In order to do all of that Rodman's Neck has always been on a 2 shift schedule and at times they were running 3 shifts 24/7. The agency I worked for required a minimum of 8 hours a quarter. That was pretty generous. I didn't write the law that's the way it's always been AFAIK. The concept is the actors committing the felony are responsible for everything that happens. Cops responding to a crime have no evil intent. No mens rea. I'm not making light of friendly fire incidents where other cops or civilians are hit. Nothing is 100%. There are hundreds cases a year when a civilian accidentally shoots another. Few of these cases get prosecuted.

Friendly fire incidents used to be much more common in the NYPD. Steps were taken in training that eliminated them for a long time. Nothing is 100% though and this is little consolation to the officers involved.

Not getting one out of 400 to agree with you should tell you something. I'm sure @Ray Ray didn't mean it that way. The other 398 people probably understand what Ray was saying.

@Sniper Absolutism? Maybe you should think this one out. If everyone says you're wrong there is a likelihood you are.

Not enough info in the article to offer a cursory opinion on the tactics used. Yes, the perp is at fault and will be charged with the homicide. Any death that happens during commission of a felony falls on the guy or guys commiting the felony even if they took no action to cause the death. That's the law in just about every place I know. For example Waldo is the getaway driver and stays in the car. His partner Brutus goes in to rob the store. Store owner has heart attack and dies when Brutus announces robbery. Both Waldo and Brutus can be charged with homicide. They don't have to be present or do anything to directly cause the death.

Why bring up you can see in low light then? How bright are your lights at night? You still can't see in the dark and guess what, the bad guy may turn off your lights.

See @Mr.Stu's response. You may be gifted with superior low light vision but you can't see in the dark.

See at @Mr.Stu's post. You tried that lately? Most of us are not gifted with the ability to see in the dark.

It improves your accuracy by allowing you to see your target if there is no or little light.

Yes, CBP is limited to issued weapon. I believe that was still true for the inspectors before DHS was created. Except for a short period special agents could always carry personally owned firearms as long as it was approved and they qualified with it. Firearms policies have always stated something to the effect it doesn't preclude off duty carry in accordance with state or local laws. The only benefit I can see for getting a state carry permit is if your agency says you must carry ABC and you want to carry XYZ. If you're a Federal LEO ( or any LEO for that matter) you're much better off carrying off duty under your LE authority than any state permit. If you get into a legitimate shooting situation off duty or gun situation you'll find yourself on your own if you're carrying on the authority of a state permit. If you're carrying under your Federal LEO authority (which as a CBP Officer comes from 19 USC 1589) and in compliance with their firearms policy and use of force policy you'll get backing from the agency and most likely whatever union you wind up joining. I've seen this backing extend to the US Attorney pulling the case out of a state court and having charges dismissed. I've also seen someone have to stand trial for manslaughter in a state court for killing someone with an unauthorized weapon. I mentioned unions and they are part of the problem with CBP when it comes to firearms issues. You've got 3 unions representing CBP Officers. Any change in policy has to be run by them. When they permitted inspectors off duty carry it was negotiated to issue firearms only and no carry anywhere alcohol was served. Special Agents, not having a union to deal with, could carry specific personally owned firearms and carry anywhere as long as they weren't drinking alcohol. I'd rethink those "benefits" of carrying off duty on a state permit.

Generally no when it comes to state laws. If you're a Federal LEO carrying off duty under the guidelines of your agency your restrictions are are governed by your agency policy is. Federal agencies don't acquiesce to state laws. That's maintaining sovereignty of the Federal Government. A Federal LEO is better off carrying off duty under their agency's guidelines rather than any state law for reasons I'll discuss in my next post in this thread.

What they require depends on the state.

If your a Federal LEO and carrying off duty within the guidelines of your agency what the state says really doesn't matter. You are carrying under Federal authority. The Federal Government is not subject to state or local jurisdiction.

What you say @Zeke?

Appears the only concern was that anyone carrying had a license to do so.

Did that on a date then went for Chinese.