rauchman

Greetings, Just some random thoughts from some pistol time this weekend.... I had the fortunate occassion to shoot this weekend, as well as the weekend previous. I do lots of dry fire trigger presses at home, but nothing can mimick shooting, like actually shooting the gun. I brought a Gen2 G17, German made Sig P226 w/ E2 grip and S&W M&P40 using an M&P9mm barrel w/ mag. Sig P226 - I really used to hold the P226 as the standard of accuracy and capability. I hadn't shot the Sig in a while and wanted to get some time on it. I've come to the conclusion that after shooting Glocks/M&P's/recently added PPQ, I'm not that big a fan of DA/SA triggers anymore. My buddy was w/ me and he had his P226 there as well, along w/ his P229 in 40/357Sig. I'm fortunate that my Sig has a relatively nice trigger in DA. Much lighter than my buddy's. I'm finding that I like shooting DA better than SA. Never thought I'd say that. Ultimately though, as much as I used to like the full size Sig, I'm liking other pistols better. My wife loves the P226, otherwise I would consider selling it. Gen2 G17 - I've haven't had this pistol out to the range in a while either. For a while, I was shooting it on a regular basis and was able to perform very tight 5 round slow fire groups w/ it at 15 yards. I was not happy w/ last weekend's performance w/ it. While my shooting was not bad, it wasn't great. I was also surprised that I found it "recoily". I'd never noticed that before. I always perceived it being a very soft shooter. The port to the left of me was occupied by 2 guys shooting Gen4 G17's. They were nice enough to let me put 5 rounds through the latest iteration of Glocks 1st pistol and I was ...... really impressed. I shot 5 rounds w/ the 1st 3 clover leafing at 10 yards or so. Recoil felt much different than my G17. Seemed quicker/snappier, but less felt recoil. Trigger felt pretty nice as well. If I were going for a new 9mm, this would be very near the top of the list. The whole pistol felt tighter and more solid. M&P - As mentioned above, this is an M&P40 w/ an M&P 9mm barrel and 9mm 15rnd mag. This pistol was sort of a project gun for me. I installed the Apex sear, rounded the firing pin safety in the slide and polished the snot out of all the contact points in the trigger mechanism. It is now a very nice trigger. Also relieved the area under the trigger guard a bit. I bought this pistol used at the Bullet Hole a couple of years ago. I must confess that I always thought the pistol had great potential, but I had a hard time gelling w/ it. Well, I'm learning to LOVE this pistol. 2nd shot recovery is effortless and it tracks very well during recoil. Also, I found the recoil to me more manageable than even the metal P226, very very easy to control. I found myself pushing the "no rapid fire" rule and getting 3 rnd clover leafs at 10 yards. 5 rnd spreads of less than 4" at 10 yards in 3 seconds. When I dropped the speed to 5 rnds / 4 seconds, groups shrunk to sub 3". I always get 3 great shots together and then 2 outlyers. Decided to try 1 handed shooting. Strong hand (right hand) resulted in a clover leaf. Very proud of that group as it's the best Iv'e ever fired 1 handed. Weak hand needs A LOT of work though. My weak hand results were the dreaded shotgun patterns. The polar opposite of the excellent strong hand 1 handed group. At the end of my range session, if you told me I could only have 1 pistol, the M&P would be it. I'm having thoughts of selling 1 or 2 of the pistols I hardly ever shoot, and getting a 2nd M&P. My Glocks are getting nervous. Oh yeah, some other thoughts..... Bullet Hole tends to draw lots of LEO's to their range. Kudos to the cops who I see actually trying to learn how to shoot their pistol well. However, based on how well I see the majority of LEO's shoot, they need to learn to shoot better. The guys next to me w/ the Gen4 G17's were shooting shotgun patterns and claimed to be LEO's. When I shot a sub 2" group w/ their pistol they realized it wasn't the pistol that was inaccurate. Towards the end of my session, a couple occupied the port to my right. The guy was teaching his girlfriend how to shoot. That's always a cool thing, but looking at the guy's grip on this Sig Elite P220 and the shotgun spreads he was achieving, I was very very tempted to offer some suggestions on how to acheive better groupings. I found myself not saying anything though, as not to make the guy look bad in front of his S/O. New Year's resolution - Get formal pistol/carbine training & compete!!! Thanks for reading my rambling.

For what it's worth, here is my $.02 Get a quality pistol used. This will knock a few hundred of the purchase price. I know Bullet Hole in Belleville, NJ has a pretty good selection of used pistols. I'm guessing other gun shops have some selection of used pistols as well. Some decent deals found on this website also. Get a 9mm. Yup, lots of good calibers out there, but 9mm is cheapest / recoil is least objectionable of the viable self defense rounds. Lots of cool rounds out there, but cost will quickly add up. I can't tell you how many times I've read about people getting into pistol shooting and buying a .40/.45/357 Mag/ etc., only to wind up w/ a 9mm to offset practice expenses and be able to shoot it decently w/out the drama of trying to control a higher recoiling round. I am among those that went though this process. Not saying somewhere down the line to not get another caliber, but start w/ something that won't turn you off to shooting. Whatever pistol you get, pick something that you can convert to .22lr. This will allow for very affordable practice. Or, buy an additional pistol...being a .22lr. If you're serious about learning to shoot, take a class and invest time in doing dry fire practice at home. Makes a world of difference. I prefer pistol w/ the same trigger for every shot, but don't limit myself to them. If you buy a used pistol, plan on learning how to disassemble the pistol to change out springs and what. Glocks and M&P's are great for this. Very easy pistols to work on and parts are plentiful and cheap. Pistols I'd consider... Any Glock Sig P series or SigPro/2022 Beretta 92/Vertec series S&W 5950 or M&P series (really really like the M&P) CZ75/85 series HK USP/P2000/P30 (will probably run a little rich for you, but you never know what deal you can find) Good luck

In +1, maybe 2

Based on the replies here, as well as my own experience, I find it encouraging that people who would have otherwise not moved forward w/ the idea of getting a gun, are now starting to do so. Excellent work everyone on bringing more people into the fold!

Interested in this too. So far, the best solution I've seen is to chop the G17 grip to handle G19 mags.

Possibly, but that hasn't been my experience. Once the newbie (regardless of whether or not it's a guy or gal) shoots a couple of mags and gets past the "shock" of shooting a firearm, they adjust pretty well.

Greetings, Took my friend Alexandria to the Bullet Hole last weekend for her 1st ever shooting experience. Brought a PPQ, M&P40 (used it w/ M&P9mm barrel) and a Gen3 G19. She wound up shooting w/ the G19 the best, followed closely by the PPQ. We met over my place and had her fondle a bunch of pistols and settled on the above. Also went through some gun safey handling procedures. While at the range, we put a standard Q target out about 7-10 yards. As expected, she was all over the place. Towards the end of the session, she was able to put 5 rounds in a 4" circle. She did great for her 1st time out! She thoroughly enjoyed the experience. We parted ways when we got to my place. A couple of hours later she called me to express her frustration that her local PD's records room wasn't open on Sat to get her permit paperwork. She picked it up 1st thing Monday morning. This will make 3 women that I've now introduced to firearms and where they went ahead and bought a handgun. Actually, 2 handguns each so far. Total tally is now at 7 or so people. As an aside, I find it telling how many people have approached me for info on firearms since the beginning of the CT shooting craziness. It seems that w/ the threat of possible gun control laws, many people are becoming interested in excercising their 2A rights.

+1 Picked up a used one from Bullet Hole a couple of years ago. Put the Apex sear in, rounded the firing pin safety and polished all trigger contact parts. Relieved the area under the trigger guard a little and took the largest grip insert and reshaped it (looks f'ugly though). Really nice shooter. Also put in an M&P 9mm barrel and bought a few 15rnd mags. Really like the setup.

PM sent. I'm in Bergen County and have the tools neccessary. ken

+1. Have one in mine. Dramatic difference in DA pull, SA not so much. I now like the DA pull better than the SA pull. I've never said that before on a DA/SA pistol.

Have to agree w/ the others saying some flavor of G21. I have a Gen4 G21 and it is fantastic. Only have about 700 or so rounds through mine (freakin .45 is expensive), but so far no bobbles and accuracy is excellent. While some Gen4 models have been criticized for less than stellar reliability, I've only heard great things about the Gen4 G21. I also have an HK USP45F that has been nothing but stellar. Have roughly 3.5k rounds through it. Ergo's sometimes leave me a little wanting though. DA trigger is meh, but the SA is decent. Picked up a used M&P45F not too long ago. I'm learning to like it. Haven't mastered it enough yet to say whether I think it's accurate or not, but it does have a stellar rep for accuracy. Recoil control is excellent. HK45 is sort of the next evolution of the USP series and is considered a top tier .45 by many. I've fired one and like it. It felt very similar to my USP in recoil, but the HK45 ergos are noticeably better. FNP45 - Never fired one. Held one at a gunstore and it looks very promising. Sort of another flavor of HK's execution on a combat pistol. Hope this helps.

Sig SP2022 ($475 "special" deal with $99 laser) - I convinced a female coworker of mine to get into shooting and this pistol was her 1st (sans laser). It is a very accurate pistol, as Sig's tend to be. I have a 1995 P226 and have shot many Sigs. If my coworkers Sig is any indication, the SP2022 has a great DA/SA trigger by Sig standards. I don't like the feel of the pistol though. Something in the ergo's of the grip seems "off", but this is purely subjective. I believe there are 3 backstraps available for the pistol, but for some reason, I think it only comes w/ 2. It is kind of large for what it is. In it's price range for a new pistol, there is not much better. Glock 19 gen 4 ($600) - I am a HUGE proponent of the G19. I have a Gen2 and Gen3 and am considering getting a Gen4 (or a Gen4 G17 and cut down the handle to accept G19 mags). I understand the Gen4's to be slightly more accurate and have a softer recoil impulse. I haven't followed it lately, but the 9mm Gen4's have built a reputation as not being as reliable as their predecessors. There have been numerous theories on this (recoil spring assembly was 1st, followed by the extractor and I've read about other possibilities as well), but I don't believe there is a general concensus that these issues have been fixed in current production. You would be well served to get as recent prodcution as possible since Glock is continually making "improvements" to parts in question. Me personally, I'd get one and if a part needs to be changed out, so be it. Of the choices you listed, the G19 would be my 1st choice followed by the Sig. Ber PX4Storm ($600) - I've never fired one, nor do I know anyone w/ one. I believe in free states, this pistol comes w/ a 17rnd mag and I don't think there is a 15rnd option. So here in NJ, it would be a 10rnd mag. I have a Beretta 92FS (actually, it's the wife's) that I've put a "D" spring in. It is one of my fav's, but I don't think the 92 series is of the same basic design as the Storm. I've seen people at the range shooting the Storm, but to be honest, in conversation w/ most of these folks, many of them didn't strike me as informed pistol consumers or experienced pistol shooters. While I'm sure it's a good gun, this one would come in last place of the choices listed here. Sig P229 ($900) - If you like a DA/SA trigger, this is a great pistol. My cousin has one in 9mm and I know a few people w/ this pistol in .40/357Sig. I have a 1995 P226 (older style w/ the folded sheet metal frame). Recoil between my P226 (fullsize pistol) and my cousins P229 (compact pistol) feels identical. Again, very accurate. Having praised the pistol w/ the positive attributes, please be aware that 2005+ Sigs have earned a less than stellar reputation in QC. They used to set the standard for QC and their "to hell and back" reliability was well earned. These days, I've read numerous reports of QC issues on new production pistols that didn't used to be their. If you are the type of shooter that shoots 1000 or so rounds a year, I kind of doubt you'd run into issues. If you shoot high volume, you may give this purchase a 2nd thought. One last thing, I believe Sig has changed the frame on current P229 models in the last year or so. The 9mm used to use the same mag as the P228 and could share mags w/ the P226. The newer model uses a different mag that, I believe, is specific to the platform.

This is what I did. I picked up a used M&P40 Fullsize at the Bullet Hole a couple of years ago. I redid the trigger w/ the Apex sear, radiused/polished the firing pin safety and polished all trigger related contact points. Gotta say, the trigger is pretty nice now. Also bought an M&P 9mm barrel and a bunch of 15rnd 9mm mags. When I go to the range, I usually shoot 9mm. However, there are times, like now, when 9mm isn't the easiest to find and .40 is out there for purchase. While accuracy is not match (not many service pistols are), it is easily good enough to practice SD shooting. Off all the .40's I've fired, the M&P handles the .40 the best (includes CZ75, Gen 2/3 G22, Gen 2/3/4 G23, Beretta 96, Sig P229/P226, HK USPF, XD40). Also, places like http://sgammo.com tend to carry government overruns of high quality HP for prices that sometimes rival FMJ prices. I've never seen those kind of deals on 9mm/.45. I'm not trying to make the argument for the .40. While the M&P handles the .40 very well, I'm not that big of a fan shooting it. I prefer to shoot 9mm/.45. However, I like having a pistol that uses the same round as the majority of LEO's (local/fed), and that is available and on the shelves during political crazyness. Also, in regards to shooting it, I've found that if I go and shoot the .40 during multiple consecutive range sessions, I get used to it and don't find it as offensive. The downside is that the FMJ ammo is about $3-$4 more expensive per 50 rounds. I've never fired the Compact model in .40, but was amazed at the minimal recoil in the 9mm model.

A PDW is a compact weapon that is easily hidden on the person. Can be chambered in just about anything. Needs to have a range of 100 or so yards. Think 10.5" AR, Krinkov, UZI, MP5, and similar. Can even be a pistol.

Signed

I have 20 pistols. 6 of them are Glocks. Like you, I truly enjoy all my pistols. Like you, I also agree that if it were to come to "serious" use, the Glock would be my 1st pick. 1911's are, IMHO, popular because there is a romance about them that Glock doesn't have. 1911's are steel, and sometimes wood, w/ wood grips. They have a legendary status and can be made exquisitely accurate. Glocks are tools. Maybe in another 70 years or so, Glock will have that history behind it and have that romance associated with it. The 1911 having the best trigger on an auto doesn't hurt either. Also, they are extremely shootable. Some believe that while having a large mag capacity is good, it's not exactly necessarry. I happen to like a lot of bullets on hand. I have a Gen4 G21 and would grab it waaaaaaaayyyyyy before the 1911 I have if in need of a pistol for HD. Seriously thinking of a Gen4 G35 or G17 w/ the grip cut down to accept G19 mags w/ a Grip Force adaptor for the next Glock.

I happen to like the shootability of the G17 better than the G19. Recoil impulse is smoother, less muzzle flip and 2nd shot recovery is excellent. However, neutering a 17rnd mag to 10rnds is a no-go for me. I realize you can find some places that pin the G17 mags to 15 rounds, but to pay over $20 a mag for any Glock is assinine. At most, I've paid $22/mag. My guess would be that the G19 is more popular due to it having a 15rnd mag. I've been seriously toying w/ the idea of finding a used G17 and cutting the grip to accept G19 mags.

I had a motorcycle accident the day after Thanksgiving in 2011. In addition to breaking a variety of bones, I now have a hump of tissue in on a joint of my thumb in the web of my hand. I've shot 1000's of rounds through my G19's prior and never had a problem w/ slide bite. I'm finding that since the accident, that hump of tissue is getting knicked by the slide when I have a good tight grip. Seriously considering the GFA. My only concern is that it's going to lengthen the distance to the trigger a bit. Not crazy about that idea. I'd consider selling off one my G19's (1x Gen2, 1x Gen3) for a Gen4 w/ the GFA, but haven't been sold on the reliability of current production 9mm Glocks. Sad.

I've shot both in 9mm. From a purely shooting perspective, I liked the P229 better. Recoil was similar to my German P226, while the P228's I've fired tended to feel more snappy. Accuracy is probably about equal. I haven't fired any of the newer P229's.

Yes, the VLTOR rifle mod stock. It is an A1 or A2 length (they come in both sizes) and can fit on either an A1/A2 style receiver extension or a carbine style. If it goes on a carbine style, it needs to be pinned as it will be considered a collapsable stock, even though it isn't.

I wouldn't call the XD's junk. Not my favorite pistol, but I've shot worse. I love my Glocks, but I also understand they aren't for everybody either.

+1. I recently had the opportunity to put a few rounds through an XDM45. It shot nicer than the XD45 Tactical I briefly owned. I've put a few rounds through an XDM40 as well. In all cases, for slow fire, it's ok, but for me, the high bore axis inhibited quick follow up on the next shot. I prefer Glocks in this regard. For me, the attributes of the Glock outweigh any XD pistol I've fired.

Yup, had mine out for its 2nd outing this past weekend. It is growing on me heavily. I've been loyal to my G19's for awhile now, but I see myself falling for the siren song of the PPQ. Just wish mags weren't so expensive.

Greetings, I'm researching various muzzle devices for my AR15. I've been contemplating a Battlecomp, Dynacomp (Spikes Tactical), YHM, Wilson or a Levang type. Rejoining Cherry Ridge has led to an informative experience on the subject, since the last couple of times I was there, there were quite a few shooters w/ AR's. In just about all instances where the shooter had some kind of brake, concussion was a PITA. Some were worse than others. I believe someone had a PWC and it was LOUD. In the past, I've fired a couple of AR's w/ a Battlecomp and, while it was better than other offerings, I still found it lacking w/ obnoxious concussion. This has led me to the Levang type compensators. I came across http://www.blackrive...product=7674685 from Black River Tactical and it looks interesting. Oh yeah, for those that don't know what a Levang comp looks like... http://www.midwayusa...-15-steel-matte Another contender from Troy....their Claymore (although it looks a little mall ninja'ish)... http://troyind.com/%...le-brake-5-56mm Has anyone used a Levang type comp and how did you like it? I'm looking for .... 1. Sound pushed forward vs. out to the sides 2. Better recoil control (not that the AR15 really needs it, but hey, why not?) 3. Flash signature that's not much worse than an A2 FH. Thoughts?

I may be very wrong on this, but it seems whenever HK comes out w/ a new pistol, they have fully vetted it and don't use the public as a beta tester. This seems to not be the case w/ the majority of other makes. Even though I am a big fan the Gen4 Glocks I own, I also recognize that a lot of Gen 4's, especially 9mm's, have had "growing" pains..... as have M&P's, as have newer production Sigs (or at least that was the internet has told me). Even though there may be other platforms that may be "better" in certain areas (ergo's, cost, etc.), in my mind, HK combines exceptional durability, reliability and accuracy into their pistols. I understand the suggested service interval on the recoil springs for the P30 is 25K rounds, vs. roughly 5K on most other makes/models. HK's are mechanically very accurate, yet while their triggers are decent, they are far from exceptional. They are extremely tough service type pistols w/ great accuracy. A lot of other makes play in this arena, but they typically don't go through the testing process that HK subjects their guns to. I know Sig's were once considered on par w/ HK, but I understand since 2004 Sig has changed the QC process on civilian and even LEO pistols to not include the same level of testing that they were once subjected to. I have no direct experience w/ post 2004 Sigs, but I've read a fairly large # of complaints from people that seem to know what they're talking about that for me, I would at least think twice on a purchase of brand new Sig. Oddly enough, Sig's 2022 seems to be the unsung hero of the line.