rauchman

Bullet Holes' price on the PPQ is $691. Pricey

I've got a Gen4 G23 and M&P40F. I usually shoot at the Bullet Hole.

I have 2 M&P's that I bought used at the Bullet Hole. Both have the mag safety and no thumb safety. I would prefer that they both had the thumbsafety and no mag safety. Unfortunately, as I understand it, S&W does not sell the parts to convert to the thumb safety. It was explained to me by a S&W CS rep, that the serial #'s on the M&P's contain info as to how the pistol is outfitted (what safety's they have) and to change the safety mechanism's on the pistols would make S&W vulnerable to liability issues. Sorry, I digress. Like I said, I would prefer the thumb safety. One of the chief reasons being that the M&P triggers can be made amazingly sweet, and also very light. Having a TS, would give me peace of mind w/ the light trigger. If you're going to keep the trigger stock at the 6+lb weight, it won't be as much of a factor. But with a worked trigger, to me it's akin to having a slicked 1911 trigger w/out a TS. Dangerous. Secondly, the TS would act as a shelf for your thumb when shooting and possibly provide more support to your grip when shooting. Also, to actuate the TS seems so natural. If you practice your grip to always have your thumb laying on the safety, I don't see the issue since you would automatically have your thumb positioned to snick the safety off. BTW, I've experienced a AD/ND w/a G22 some years ago and it scared the living doo-doo out of me. Fortunately, no one was injured, but it's a mistake I go out of my way to not happen again. I know you said that the fact that you can remove the TS won't factor into your decision, but I do believe it is relevant. You can always remove the TS, you can't add it later.

Have 29 days to wait for the next purchase, which will in all likelyhood be the PPQ. I have to sell off some other pistols/rifles first though. Based on my experience w/ my buddy's P99, I would venture to guess that the PPQ has a very quick re-battery and also, very quick, very short and very identifiable reset. The ONLY downside I see to this pistol is the cost of mags and parts (recoil springs, etc.). I haven't seen mags available anywhere yet. I understand though, Gen2 P99 mags (whatever that means) work flawlessly on the PPQ. Also, night sights and holsters for the P99 will work on the PPQ.

Was at Bullet Hole last night to pick up my M&P45. They did have a PPQ and I got to hold and dry fire one shot. Wow, the trigger is REALLY nice. Grip feel is good, but the trigger The trigger face feels like a slightly wider and slightly flatter Glock trigger. It provides very very good leverage in the trigger pull. Also, it is definitely on the lighter side and the pull is relatively smooth. Considerably smoother than most other striker fired poly pistols when new. The reset is excellent. My buddy has an original P99. I remember it being very accurate, having more recoil than most other 9mm's and having this hump on the inside of the trigger guard that rubbed the bottom of my trigger finger raw. I just picked up 3 permits yesterday, one of which was used on the M&P. The Walther PPQ may own one of my other permits.

1st off thanks for the replies. Have to say, I thought I was going out on a limb in starting this discussion. It's warming to see that I'm not the only one of this mind set. Thanks!!!! Now........ All of this begs the question........ If the Tea Party is not the answer, what is? What other alternative is there?

Greetings, I'm curious how many NJGF'ers have been to Tea Party meetings and what chapter? I went to my 1st last night w/the wife. As I explained to people that I told I was going to a Tea Party meeting, my expectation was low, but my hopes were high. I don't think I was disproven. The meeting was held at Bergen Harley Davidson in Rochelle Park. On the website NJ Tea Party Coalition, it was mentioned the topics of the evening would be someone giving a speach of why we should support Israel and another presentation on how public schools are teaching alternate history and teaching things from a socialist/globalist agenda. It started off w/ the host giving a few jokes in the vein one would expect and then the Pledge of Allegiance and moment of silence for our vets. Cool, I'm with ya so far. Then it went to the host reading some quotes from the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and various memo's from the Founding Fathers........ and somehow sequed into how America is a Christian nation and we are at war w/ the entire Muslim war. In my head I'm thinking, Oh no, he didn't just go there. That's like saying the rest of the world views all American Christians like Timothy McVeigh. This was worked into how we need to support Israel because we have similar Constitutions and share the same God. Maybe it's me, but as soon as the religious component enters any debate, you've lost my interest. I couldn't give a rat's a** as to what you believe. Keep it to yourself and don't interfere w/ my beliefs as I won't interfere w/ yours. I digress.... Then the guest speaker came up for his Support Israel presentation. Before we go further, I need to state that I do support Israel.... but not unconditionally. Do they face war everyday there, of course, but they are far from being angels themselves. I have to give the presenter credit as he had topographical/relief maps of Israel and it showed how the West Bank is bordered by a mountain range, how the Golan Heights is the perfect high ground for the north of Israel and so on. This guy claimed that he went to Congressmen to build support for Israel and influenced them to approve support funding. While this may be true, I couldn't get past the fact that this guy just didn't come across as credible to me. And that was the problem I had for the whole evening. NOTHING came across as credible. It seemed like a meeting for people who were pissed off at the system, but couldn't get it together to offer a solution. The words Mob Mentality come to mind. Aside from the religious war idea that was being pushed, I didn't once hear what they were about. To be fair, the host did mention that there would be a meeting in Hackesack talking about Agenda 21. It's a UN initiative to somehow manage world land use. Somehow, and I don't know all the details to know what I'm talking about, it would have an effect on private land ownership in the USA. The way it's being pushed here in this country is way of things like "Sustainable Communities" and what not. Bottom line, have any of your been to Tea Party meetings that weren't so focused on the religious superiority aspect? I'd like to get involved 'cause I really think things are seriously f*** up in this country, and I think there needs to be a push back to Individual Rights and Liberties as guaranteed by the Consititution.

Sorry, didn't read all 17 pages of this thread but.... When are you opening??? You have a shooter here waiting w/ baited breath for a new range to open!!!! BTW, more power to you for having the balls to open a range!!!

Which brand of AR-10 is this for? If it's for a real AR-10, meaning Armalite, then Armalite sells 10 & 15rnd factory mags. If it's for AR-10 type platform rifles, meaning DPMS and just about everyone else, try Midwest PX (they are listed on this site). ETA: - Looks like Midwest PX has a group buy going on under their subforum on this site.

How do I say this???? I have a smattering of a variety of pistols and enjoy them all. However, for some reason I find Glocks the most rewarding pistol to shoot well. For me, they were the hardest pistol/trigger setup to master (master is a relative term and the wrong term to use here, as I'm a decent shot, not a great shot.... still have a long way to go). Just about all the other pistols I own (HK USP45F, HK P7, Walther P5, Sig P226, Beretta 92FS... actually, it's the wife's, SA 1911 Loaded, CZ75 SA .40, Ruger Mark II, Beretta Neos, M&P40... I think that's it) all have a degree of "easyness" in how they shoot as compared to the Glock, rather in how the trigger handles as compare to the Glock trigger. However, for me, once the trigger thing gets worked out, I find Glocks lend themselves very well to quick shooting, and they are more accurate than most give them credit for. Do I think they are the be-all end-all? No, I don't. But they get pretty close, as do a lot of other platforms.

Gulp gulp!!!

Sounds good.

Thanks much!!! I think one of them is pregnant and may give birth to another in 37 days or so. Seriously, I can't stress enough how much I like the Gen3 G17 trigger bar w/ the slightly shaved down safety tab.

Thanks for this. This is some of my fav' practice ammo. Just ordered my case. $198.99 shipped.

Did I read that add right? $49.95 plus $7 shipping. If so, I'm definitely in. Please put me in for two. Please let me know how you want to handle payment.

When I was 15, I was throwing clay, the type you put in a kiln, at cars w/ a friend of mine. Long story short, guys from 2 different cars caught us and one laid a really good beating on my face. When the cop showed up, I had blood pouring from my mouth and the guy who did my facial was screaming that he wanted me arrested. When I pointed out to the officer that if the guy pressed charges on me, then I would press charges on him for assaulting a minor, Mr. fists backed off. The way I looked at, I was wrong, the guy was wrong..... I don't throw things at cars anymore. Yeah, the kid was being mischeivious. Mr. cross bow was decidedly more violent of action. I'm also sure the kid will think twice about throwing stuff at cars again. This is an extreme example, but it's almost a right of passage for a kid.

Greetings, Tis a tale of my 1st G19 that is now up to snuff!!! This pistol was purchased in 2000 or so. It was purchased used at the Bullet Hole, and is a Gen2. This pistol was purchased after buying and then selling a Gen3 G22 in '98 or so. When I owned the G22, I couldn't shoot it worth a damn. Maybe it was being an alien platform from what I was used to at the time. Pretty much only shot a Beretta 92FS (wife's), a Beretta 96 Centurian (sold) or a Sig P226 (the wife has commandeered this one) and the Glock trigger was VERY different from these platforms. Anyway, I sold the G22, but the more I read about Glocks, the more I was convinced this was a platform that had some merit, and in a lot of ways, thought it was better in it's execution than the more traditional DA/SA types. Was in Las Vegas and went to a place to shoot a FA MP5 (great fun that was!!!). Also checked out a G30 and was very surprised that I could shoot this little chunky monkey so well. When I came across the Gen2 G19, I knew I had to have it. I thought, this would be the pistol that I would master the Glock trigger on. I dry fired this pistol so much, 1st I broke the trigger spring. The biggie though was after, who knows how many, but my wife thinks it's somewhere north of 15K dry fires w/out snap caps, I shattered the slide in the breach area where the firing pin peeks out. This happened in 2009 or so. Glock made good on this and I sent the pistol to them and they sent it back w/ a Gen3 slide, moved the Trij night sigts over to the new slide and all the internals. What I did not like, was that the basterds switched out all the perfectly worn in trigger internals. The trigger went from perfectly worn in, to snatchy, grabby and HEAVY. The good thing was that I had purchased some other pistols during the interim, including a Gen3 Austrian proofed G19 from Mike's Gun shop in Cliffside Park/Fairview. This became my main pistol since the Gen2 did not have a trigger I was diggin'. Earlier this year, I picked up a Gen4 G23 and the 1st thing I did was replace the trigger bar w/ that stupid dimple in it, to a Gen3 smooth faced unit as found on a G17. I had one extra of the trigger bars and last night installed it on the Gen2 G19. Before installing it, I polished all the contact points. I've now fallen in love w/ the Gen2 G19 one more time. What a difference this unit has made as far as weight, smoothness and comfort. Forgot to mention, I Dremeled down the safety tab a bit, so when pulled, the safety sits flush w/ the trigger face. I've function checked this by..... dry firing about 100 reps last night. It works PERFECTLY!!!! And the comfort is greatly enhanced over A.) the normal "target" type trigger w/ the serrations and B.) the safey tab that sticks out a little bit when the trigger is pulled. This is the way Glock triggers should feel. All my Glocks will now have this mod. Ordered trigger bars yesterday from Lone Wolf, as well as Wolff 6lb trigger springs. The normal trigger spring weight is 5lbs. The 6lbs spring works for you and actually lessens the weight a smidge. I vastly prefer this to the "-" connectors, such as the Lone Wolf 3.5lb and Glock 4.5lb (formerly known as the 3.5lb connector). The "-" connectors do lighten the pull, but at the expense of a mushy pull and a mushy reset. Ok, I've done enough rambling.... Gratuitous Glock family shot... From top to bottom... Gen2 G17, Gen2 G19, Gen3 G26, Gen4 G23, Gen3 G19

I've got all 3 (well, a convereted M&P40 w/ a M&P9 barrel and mags). My P226 is from '96, I believe the last year of all German construction and folded sheet metal slide w/ pinned block. It is an outstandingly accurate pistol, reliable and tough. I've recently added the E2 grip and really like it. It is very soft shooting in 9mm (no experience on the .40/357Sig models). What I don't like about it is the DA/SA trigger and extremely mushy trigger reset. While the DA is smooth and consistent, the pull is heavy. The SA is very nice w/ a crisp break. My buddy has a late 90's vintage P229 in .40 w/ the sweetest stock trigger I've ever felt on a Sig. The newer variants have the SRT (short reset trigger) which makes a big difference. They also have short reach triggers as well, along w/ the E2 grip panel. For me, I've come to appreciate and value the striker fired pistols (Glock, M&P, etc) for their consistent triggers from first shot to last. *** The following is purely speculation w/ no direct experience, and is based soley on errornet reading from posters I respect who seem to be in the know. These sources are mostly found on M4carbine.net/pistol-training.com. *** Post 2005 production Sigs have gotten a reputation of not maintaining Sig's "to Hell and back reliability". While still a very accurate platform, it seems there is more of an effort on Sig's part to sell glitz vs. quality. I've read A LOT of threads on various firearms related forums that describe Sig's decline of quality control. It seems that there are now 3 tiers of production quality at Sig. 1. At lowest is production for civilian purchase. The alloy in the receiver is not the same quality as pre-2004 and many cost cutting measures have been implemented. For a while in the mid-2000's, Sig's only came w/ 1 mag. They are now back up to 2. I've recently read that they are now using Check Mate mags on new production guns vs. MegCar. In case you don't know, Check Mate mags were blamed for Beretta 92FS/M9 pistols malfunctioning when the Iraq war first started. Also, they've done away w/ quality control checks and the pistol coming w/ a target demonstrating accuracy and function. The pistol in now not fired before it leaves the factory. I've also read that many MIM parts have been introduced. My pistol has a braided recoil spring of different metals to function in extremely cold weather. I understand new production Sigs come w/ a standard single braid spring. This may have changed recently w/ many customer complaints. 2. Next up is LEO production. These guns have the better alloy in the receiver and some quality checks are implemented. As I understand it, PD departments that have experience w/ older Sigs vs. newer production Sigs complain of reduced shot counts before parts breakage. 3. Fed/Military production. These guns get the full quality check. Guns for the SEALS are produced w/ phosphate coated parts. If it were I, I'd hunt down a pre 2004 P226 - post 1996, w/ the solid forged milled stainless upper. These were known as the toughest Sigs ever made for civilian purchase, outside of limited production runs of the SEAL P226's and some fed/mil production overruns. I've read about round counts on these guns going easily into 100k plus. As an alternate, if you want a kick a** DA/SA type pistol, check out the HK P30/P2000/USP or Beretta 92FS/M9/PX Storm.

Check w/ Grant at G & R Tactical. He's a frequent poster on M4carbine.net and sells M&P's and 15 rnd mags. I understand, he'll sell whatever flavor of M&P w/ the 15rnd'ers.

I think........... I need a tissue

I've got a Gen2 G19, Gen3 G19, Gen4 G23, Gen2 G17 & Gen3 G26. I would recommend doing 1 of 3 things. 1. Go bigger - G22/G35 to complement your G23, G17/G34 (obvious PITA'ness due to the limited 10rnd mags), G21 of some flavor (recently shot a G21SF and LOVED it). 2. Go smaller - G26/G27. I'm very happy I picked up the G26. Recoil feels very very similar to a pre Gen4 G19 w/ a smidge more muzzle flip. 3. Get a duplicate of what you already have to have redundency of your primary plaform. Hate to say this, but the Gen4 G23 really ramps up the finesse level of the G23. Choices discussed above. Again, the G21SF is a REALLY nice pistol, as is the G30. I agree w/ you on stocking another caliber. This is the ONLY reason I would steer away from this choice. Unless you reload, this will be your most costly option in ammo. MTAC and CTAC seem to be very popular for this.

I've got a Gen2 G19, Gen3 G19 and Gen2 G17, along w/ an M&P40 w/ M&P9 conversion barrel and mags (15rnd of course ). As others have said, you have to shoot both to see which you like better. I find the M&P's require more effort on my part to shoot well w/ them. YMMV. Other factors to consider. M&P can potentially have a better trigger w/ parts polishing/Apex trigger parts installed/Dan Burwell trigger job. Glocks are easier to tinker with. I don't like that to access the firing pin safety on the M&P, you have to remove the rear sight. Spare parts are easier to find for the Glock, but M&P is coming on strong. ETA: A few people have mentioned that they like the feel of the M&P better. I have to agree w/ this. However, I don't believe having a better "feel" equates to shooting the weapon better. Glocks have a notorious reputation as having a brick like feel. No question, they do. Where as the M&P has curves and the angles flow better. The M&P "feels" better in the hand. However, the wider, flatter and more blocky grip of the Glock really allows me to get a solid grip and hold the weapon still during trigger pull and when the weapon is firing (especially true of the Gen4). The more rounded front strap and back strap of the M&P grip has me resetting after each shot. Also, my one ergonomic gripe on the M&P is the area under the trigger guard needs to be relieved. For me, it's wide and forces my strong hand middle finger into an almost awkward position. I've taken sand paper to this area on my M&P and relieved the area. It's a subtle difference that, for me, makes a difference. Working up the balls to actually stipple and reshape the backstrap/frontstrap.

Ahhhh, thanks for the link!!!! Looks to be very promising!!! Yup, Gen2 G19, Gen3 G19, Gen4 G23, Gen2 G17, Gen3 G26 here. Was doing dry fire drills last night and w/out exception, the G19/G23 came perfectly to line of sight on every simulated holster draw, whereas, I'm sometimes hunting for the sights on the M&P. I'm sure w/ more time on the M&P it won't be an issue. On the draw of the trigger, I can keep the sights still on the Glocks, whereas on the M&P it takes more effort. How do you like the G34? It is a Gen4? A Gen4 G22 or G35 is sneaking it's way upward on the WANT list.

No problem with buying used here. Roughly half of the pistols I own were purchased used. As others have stated, buying used on site to touch and fondle is great. You can get a pretty good idea of how the pistol was maintained. As far as buying used off site, I've done it, but do find it becomes iffy and would rather not go this route if I can help it. The used section at the Bullet Hole has provided me some gems at some pretty good savings. Lastly, if you do decide to sell the pistol, you can pretty much get what you paid for it.

Greetings OGG, Being a Middle Aged Glock Guy , yes, I would enjoy your company to compare notes and what not. I keep on trying different platforms to always come back to the Glocks. Ironically, I joined CH a couple of years ago and let my membership lapse. I need to become an active member again since I need to find a rifle range to play at. Now I'm pretty much at BH exclusively. What is this new place in Morris County you speak of?