lunker

I know, I know! It all started with Paul saying 5+1 was the legal limit.

Well, I figure PK90 (as an FFL) would know best. You are absolutely correct about a pump shotgun. And I believe you are correct about the semi-auto.

Oh yeah, the actual NJ statute, NJ 2C:39. Please see that the law has no 2 feature wording. Any of the features make it an assault weapon. Relevant section below in red. 2C:39-1. Definitions. 2C:39-1. Definitions. The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58: a. "Antique firearm" means any rifle or shotgun and "antique cannon" means a destructive device defined in paragraph (3) of subsection c. of this section, if the rifle, shotgun or destructive device, as the case may be, is incapable of being fired or discharged, or which does not fire fixed ammunition, regardless of date of manufacture, or was manufactured before 1898 for which cartridge ammunition is not commercially available, and is possessed as a curiosity or ornament or for its historical significance or value. b. "Deface" means to remove, deface, cover, alter or destroy the name of the maker, model designation, manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing identification mark or number on any firearm. c. "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes; (4) any Molotov cocktail or other device consisting of a breakable container containing flammable liquid and having a wick or similar device capable of being ignited. The term does not include any device manufactured for the purpose of illumination, distress signaling, line-throwing, safety or similar purposes. d. "Dispose of" means to give, give away, lease, loan, keep for sale, offer, offer for sale, sell, transfer, or otherwise transfer possession. e. "Explosive" means any chemical compound or mixture that is commonly used or is possessed for the purpose of producing an explosion and which contains any oxidizing and combustible materials or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities or packing that an ignition by fire, by friction, by concussion or by detonation of any part of the compound or mixture may cause such a sudden generation of highly heated gases that the resultant gaseous pressures are capable of producing destructive effects on contiguous objects. The term shall not include small arms ammunition, or explosives in the form prescribed by the official United States Pharmacopoeia. f. "Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. g. "Firearm silencer" means any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm to be silent, or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm. h. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force. I. "Machine gun" means any firearm, mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir, belt or other means of storing and carrying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism or instrument and fired therefrom. j. "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms. k. "Handgun" means any pistol, revolver or other firearm originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of a single hand. l. "Retail dealer" means any person including a gunsmith, except a manufacturer or a wholesale dealer, who sells, transfers or assigns for a fee or profit any firearm or parts of firearms or ammunition which he has purchased or obtained with the intention, or for the purpose, of reselling or reassigning to persons who are reasonably understood to be the ultimate consumers, and includes any person who is engaged in the business of repairing firearms or who sells any firearm to satisfy a debt secured by the pledge of a firearm. m. "Rifle" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. n. "Shotgun" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shots or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, or any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition. o. "Sawed-off shotgun" means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. p. "Switchblade knife" means any knife or similar device which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. q. "Superintendent" means the Superintendent of the State Police. r. "Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but is not limited to, all (1) firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them immediately operable; (2) components which can be readily assembled into a weapon; (3) gravity knives, switchblade knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, or other dangerous knives, billies, blackjacks, bludgeons, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood; and (4) stun guns; and any weapon or other device which projects, releases, or emits tear gas or any other substance intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air. s. "Wholesale dealer" means any person, except a manufacturer, who sells, transfers, or assigns firearms, or parts of firearms, to persons who are reasonably understood not to be the ultimate consumers, and includes persons who receive finished parts of firearms and assemble them into completed or partially completed firearms, in furtherance of such purpose, except that it shall not include those persons dealing exclusively in grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. t. "Stun gun" means any weapon or other device which emits an electrical charge or current intended to temporarily or permanently disable a person. u. "Ballistic knife" means any weapon or other device capable of lethal use and which can propel a knife blade. v. "Imitation firearm" means an object or device reasonably capable of being mistaken for a firearm. w. "Assault firearm" means: (1) The following firearms: Algimec AGM1 type Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12" Armalite AR-180 type Australian Automatic Arms SAR Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms Bushmaster Assault Rifle Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900 CETME G3 Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types Demro TAC-1 carbine type Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types FAMAS MAS223 types FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns G3SA type Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1 Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms M1 carbine type M14S type MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9mm carbine type firearms PJK M-68 carbine type Plainfield Machine Company Carbine Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-14/5RF SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types SKS with detachable magazine type Spectre Auto carbine type Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun Uzi type semi-automatic firearms Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms Weaver Arm Nighthawk. (2) Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed above. (3) A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip, or a folding stock. (4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds. (5) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Anyway, my question was about treating shotgun magazines like pistol mags. I wanted to make sure there was no precedent for the shell in the chamber being treated as part of the magazine.

The Attorney General Guidelines are flat out wrong from what I can see as they are less restrictive than the actual law. If this were the law, then the two feature test would be correct. The Attorney General can interpret law, but not make it up or change it. Below is the attorney general guidelines. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and a grenade launcher; B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following: an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned; manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and, C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and an ability to accept a detachable magazine. The administrative code(N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions) is below. Please see how #3 supercedes iii. The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material us ed to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A se mi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A bayonet mount; (4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (5) A grenade launcher; ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following: (1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,forward handgrip, or silencer; (3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel andthat permits the shooter to hold the fir earm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or (5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:(1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; 3. A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a folding stock or a pistol grip; 4. A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds; or 5. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Sorry, I didn't paste the rest of the statute. Here it is. 3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine;

Hey Paul, I copied the below from the shotgun sticky. I was under the impression it was 6 round magazine + 1 in the chamber. Am I missing anything? A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least TWO of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; **note(having a pistol grip on a semi auto makes the gun automatically illegal even if NO other evil features are present..)** (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine;

Was thinking rifle, but am open to suggestions. I am busy Sunday. Going to Highlands Clam Festival.

I would split some with you. Up to 3000.

I am headed to CJRPC Saturday early afternoon. If you are interested in shooting, or just checking the place out, shoot me a PM or reply to the thread. Lunker

If you insure your guns, your Insurance company has the info. I don't know that they would put up a fight against the entity that regulates them (i.e. government).

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2 Dan Wesson had a fire last year that destroyed their factory. They are back in business. I sent my Valor to them for work.

Buono Sera in Red Bank = cougarville They migrated when Ashes closed down.

I am predicting that one or more ex-New Yorker forum members will tell us we can't get good Italian food in New Jersey. Additional guess - they will be from Brooklyn. With the shortage of Italians we have in this state, they must be right.

That's great.

Honestly, a Rock Island Armory or Citadel 1911 (both made by Armscor in Philippines) are terrific guns. Both can be had for under $600. Same lifetime warranty as a Springfield.

+1

I never found the standard grip to be comfortable. The base of the grip always dug into the heel of my hand. I much preferred the Bisley grip on my SA Ruger.

From what I have read, his losses had more to do with Liberal judges than the quality of his lawyering. There are a lot of non New Jerseyans that don't have a high opinion of Nappen. Here, it seems like he is all we have.

I wish Gura were taking the case, and not Nappen. We want professional advocacy, not showboating. And is it impolitic for me to think a lawyer that specializes in arcane NJ Gun Laws might like things the way they are?

Don't bother. The moment you say "AK", you will get shut down by them. They hear those two letters and make a snap judgement. Instead, inquire on the board about other FFL's in your area that are OK with it.

The gypsy moths were a few years later (early 80's), but they were brutal too. I remember my dad (and lots of others too) putting Vaseline strips around all the trees to stop the gypsy moths from getting up there to eat all the leaves. Trees in our neighborhood were practically bare from those fuckers. They would be hanging on web strands from trees, and it would freak us out when we walked into one by accident. The caterpillars were a lite green, then became awful brown and hairy. They made a very satisfying squish when you stomped on them. The guts would sometimes shoot out a few feet. I remember that well.

When I was a kid in the 70's, I remember them being everywhere. Their skeletons would crunch under my sneakers any time I walked somewhere, and their empty hulls would be attached to trees all over. This time around, I barely noticed them.

Nick, that's funny. I worked at 340 Madison Ave (between 43 and 44th) for years. My window looked out on 44th. I used to hate St Patty's Day because all the bagpipers would warm up and practice on 44th, and I would hear them in my office. It reminded me that I wanted to be out drinking instead of working. My office moved to Jersey City a few months back. Cheaper rent.

Thanks Bob. The countdown has commenced. Thanks T Bill. I understand that rifle bullets headspace on the shoulder, so from the neck length perspective it will be OK. But it doesn't take into account the OAL. What trimming would monitor the OAL?