Genewarper111

I spoke to Newark TAS directly about this. The said that they preferred (whatever that means) firearms to be fitted with a cable lock inside a locked hard-sided case, with ammunition stored in a separate container. Both inside your check-in bag. I should have, but did not, ask whether my sig boxes would suffice. I more or less decided that ammo is so easy to get it wasn't worth carrying it, but that's just me. Since most cases have room, I don't see an issue with taking the slide off a semi also, and running the cable lock thru the frame, but that's just me also. There's no reason not to keep these guys happy, since they can turn your life to shit. Happy Shooting G

yup - looks great - love the aerial photos - too bad it's too far for me. Hope you enjoy it G

just bumping this thread, to add my voice to the general reminder of need for safety. Interestingly, it was exactly the experience of being swept at ranges that led me to look into becoming an instructor and now of course I notice it more. Not that people are malicious or anything, or even deliberately cavalier, it's simply that the majority of people who sweep have I think simply never been told about the key elements of safety. I would certainly encourage people to get training and the NRA courses are a great place to start. There are two levels of course for Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun: "First Steps" and "Basic". There is a course for AR rifles that is at the "First Steps" level only. Both First Steps and Basic cover the same elements of safety and time on the range. The difference is that "First Steps" is orientated to those who want to bring their own firearm and the course is taught on that only, while "Basic" teaches about many firearms in a particular class, and usually gives range time with several also. So, for example - if you take a First Steps Pistol course with your new Sig239, this is what you'll be taught on and fire, by and large - if you take "Basic Pistol" then you'll learn about revolvers, semi-automatics, single shot, whatever, and may well fire several different types also. In both cases, it's likely, but not definite, that the instructor will let you first shoot a .22, because they are generally easiest to shoot. The point of both these levels of courses isn't to make you an expert, it's to give you a firm grounding in safety and safe handling, and most of all to give you confidence and enthusiasm to go forward. There are many very experienced instructors around - some at commercial organisations, some at established clubs - I'm not here to advocate for any one or the other. I've taken courses with Anthony at Guns for Hire and Chet at ShootNJ and Joe Westfield in the Phillipsburgh club. I'm very happy with my experiences, but I'm MORE happy with the fact that I took the decision to get the training in the first place. One final comment - I'd never teach my own children - it's too difficult to get their attention without the usual parent-kid baggage. Many thanks for listening and Happy (safe!) Shooting G

^^ yes - you're spot on I think. The key piece of information everyone is lacking is the date of the fingerprint report's arrival with our local PD. I also agree that the 30 day clause was insereted against the aledged abuses we're discussing. The problem of course is that the argument about waiting for information necessary for the decision, is on the face of it to most people so damn reasonable and so it will never be a popular issue, therby allowing the present system to continue. Where this leads of course is to a situation where it's best to remove the discretion of the PD from the equation and to have the FBI themselves make the determination from the outset - that is to get rid of the FPID card and go to the NCIS check, as in PA and elsewhere. Now... about the question of recording sales of ammo...... G

DEAR PK90 - thank you for that - very interesting, if somewhat long winded and convoluted. I'm assuming that this is still the prevailing case law and if so, in my (not a lawyer) interpretation, it states that the Chief of Police in any township cannot determine whether "good cause" exists for an FPID denial without the fingerprint check, and so is within his/her rights (and the implication, responsibility) to postpone a decision until the fingerprint report is obtained, even if that takes more than 30 days. Thus it seems that this is a case of "guilty until proven innocent" or "erring on the sfe side", depending on one's point of view, and therefore, we have to wait, irrespective of how long it takes, and have no recourse, unless we can dempnstrate that the fingerprint report has been received. G

^^^. Yes. Indeed. I'm pretty sure that current legislation defines "handgun ammunition" as being "specifically" designed to be used "only" in a handgun. Somehow this has been transformed/accepted/interpreted/distorted (choose your preferred....) to mean "any ammunition that CAN be used in a handgun. My real problem with all of this frankly isn't that there should be no regulation of firearms at all. It's that by the kind of domineering over-zealous hyper legislative effort coupled with heavy handed over enforcement we have in NJ, it actively encourages otherwise law abiding people to look for means to circumvent the law, and in so doing, creates a feeling of contempt for the law and law enforcement generally. In any civilised society, this is not a good thing. Ok so in the scheme of things is it really so bad to have to sign for ammo that you buy legally and use legally? On the face of it, no. But what happens when someone asks why you bought 308 when you haven't legally bought a 308 rifle through the NJ system? Are they then going to accuse you of a "straw purchase" when all you're doing is sharing the cost of having some fun with your buddy's Remington at Dix?? Here in NJ I'd be inclined to think that they might. These laws are going beyond the point of being effective and that's the real problem I think. Have a good weekend everyone Best G

am I sure?? well. um.. let me think.. yes. I called Cheyenne today- the chap I spoke to said that it had been around for about a year and now they were 'having' to enforce it. Yes, that all sounds a bit confused. However it is what it is - Cheyenne are now recording all ammo for rifles on the basis that it fits one handgun. The question is how many others will end up doing the same? best G

Well. I can only report what I observed and was told. The guys at Cheyenne Mountain were very apologetic. They showed me the info from the State Police, all freshly highlighted, and told me they had received the information very recently. In fact, when I bought 223 there two weeks ago, it definitely wasn't recorded. I got the impression that this was a new programme being rolled out by the SP, but I agree that it could be an internal initiative by Cheyenne. However, they were adamant that this had been recently imposed. G

Hi everyone as recently as yesterday, firearms retailers are being provided with information on a single-shot, breakopen action handgun that is available chambered in six or seven common rifle loads, including but not limited to: .223, .308, 30.06 (sorry can't remember the others) in other words, through this mechanism the State Police are now requiring the recording of pretty much all centre and rimfire ammunition, against an FPID number. I'm interested in your comments. Best G

why are they sending questionnaires at ALL? employer?? Spouse?? jeese... I agree -this is your PD adding stuff because they are deliberately attempting to impede the process. where do you live? I'll make a point of never moving there lol good luck!! G

I am really sorry I missed that...

.....just out of curiosity, was Franklin Township range one of the open ones? It's only about 20 mins from me...

dot dot dot.... I am thinking about this whole "reasonable" restrictions thing, and this is going to be more of a stream-of-thought post than the more structured argument that others post, but that having been said: the fight is for the middle ground. The Bryan Millers of this world are never going to be convinced that sensible adults have legitimate fears regarding the safety of themselves and their families that on occasion may require (note, 'require', because of the instantaneous nature of such threats and corresponding reply requirements) the ability to project force beyond the length of one's arms, to address. That is, people not only feel safer if they have a firearm to hand, but actually are safer (and there are FBI etc stats to back this up). The majority however, can be convinced of this, just as they have been convinced of the opposite by BM etc We need, I think, to demonstrate (note, not 'portray') ourselves to be sensible adults. We should embrace and even advocate training - do we really think that the skills needed to hunt deer are equivalent to those needed to draw and discharge a firearm safely in a car park? We need to work with, not against, our local police, because at the end of the day it is they, not we, who set the standard of law enforcement on the street on a daily basis. Most of all, we need to be visible, patient and persistent. We need to make the case logically set in the context of the modern day. I respect that people hold the Constitution dear or even sacrosanct, but at the end of the day, too many people can argue that it was written for a different era (this may or may not be true, but there's no denying that it was written hundreds of years ago, when things were very different). It actually doesn't matter, from the context of taking the middle ground, whether the Second Amendment applies literally or contextually, because those in the middle ground perceive it as contextual and, whether we like it or not, there are more and more naturalised citizens, more immigrants, more people who simply do not see the need. It is they who must be convinced because it is from these people that the liberal Councillors are elected. So, while we can hope and wish for more decisions like Heller (and McDonald, hopefully), at the end even if they go as we hope, we are still likely to be left with "reasonable restrictions" and guess who is going to decide the definition of "reasonable"? Those very liberal Councillors elected from the middle ground in every city and township in New Jersey. We can never, I think, make this issue key in any election, people by and large vote for the package, not on individual issues, we need to change how people think. And whether we like it or not, that means changing how they think about us as firearm owners and advocates. I'd suggest that making unsubstantiated claims about the Governror's sexual preferences, while simultaneously demonstrating overt homophobia doesn't portray us as reasonable or adult. Get a grip chaps - what we say here is public and reflects on ourselves as individuals and gun owners in general. best G

... mm-hm - 200 - 300, depending on what I want to do and/or whether my sons are with me G

frangible?? jeese... mega $$$$$ when I wrote I suggested that it would be a good idea if local civilian shooters and police/sherriff service officers came into contact more - maybe I'm naive, but I think it would be a good thing for these two communities to mix more, because it would dispel the impression that we're all a bunch of gun toting whack jobs... (er.. we're not, are we???? lol). I think that an important part of working to remove peoples' fear of firearms is to show the police (most of whom know) and the local politicians (most of whom hold their beliefs for the best of motives, some of whom are control freaks), that by and large as a community, civilian gun owners are obsessed with obeying the law, teaching and promulgating safety, and learning to use their firearms well in order to shoot accurately. So, I'm for a sort of reverse comunity outreach in this case - the range could provide a focus for this. The next council meeting is June 10th - anyone want to go and speak? G

I wrote... I'll post the reply G

It is excellent news that someone is approaching EB council to allow access to the Police Range here. I live in EB and have heard that it is a great little range. As alluded to previously, I've also heard that the question of access is related to liability. If it were open I would definitely use it. Regarding the attitude of EB towards the firearm owning community, I must say that I have found them generally supportive. I know that they are not the speediest in NJ, nor are they the most gun-friendly, but they are definitely not hostile. Frankly, I believe that the whole thing is a non-issue for them, and that they simply get around to it when they have time. How do we move the range issue forward - is there any way to raise it at a Council meeting? happy shooting G

They have a nice little facility down on a street on the periphery of South River. There is an indoor area (of which more later) and an outdoor range, with ten or a dozen positions and shooting out to 25 yards. They have spend a considerable sum in soundproofing the indoor area, but currently it is far from a range - there is no shooting 'line' for example, nor are there defined lanes. It's sad. They are under pressure apparently from local people who, having knowingly moved next to a long-established and once popular pistol club, now complain about noise. A senior member confided to me that they are expecting to have to close the outdoor range. Sad. This club is the mirror image of the successful Phillipsburg one. However there is a key difference, mentioned by previous posters, and it is this: South River Pistol Club has no interest whatsoever in recruiting new members. It is a dinosaur club that is more like one of those anarchic lodges one sees lampooned in cartoon and satirical sketch. I went to their annual meeting asking about membership. Several members made it known that the "Gentlemen waiting" should be informed that this was a closed membership club. THis was back in September or so and to date I've heard exactly nothing about hether I might be considered for membership. Well, life's too short and I'd predict that it'll be closed, cleared and have houses on it in under five years. Shame, and shame on the membership and executive board, because this sort of little facility is exactly what keeps shooting alive - a place where people can go and practice. Herein lies the success of Phillipsburg - their indoor range is good, they attract members, they run NRA and other courses - most of all they want people to go there. South River has an important role to play in the shooting community of the East Brunswick/SOuth River/Old Bridge/Milltown/Spotswood etc area, because it could provide a counterbalance to the large Old Bridge club. OldBridge is live and thriving and vibrant and all of the things a community club ought to be - they have excellent facilities and run many many shooting related activities. If South River were to start accepting members once again, it would provide the quiet facility that many enjoy. Hope that's of interest best G

I also load Golden Sabres. One other thing - never ever use self or reloaded ammo for self defense - always store bought as from the factory. G

.....of course, if job location and fianc

hmm... that's strange - I use the same username, email and have no issues - I'd try again... G

Hi A repost here from a thread started in another place http://www.njcsd.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3747 but one I thought people would be interested in. It describes the follow-up case to Heller, where the Plaintiffs are arguing on the basis of Heller and other decisions, that the individual has the right to carry a firearm for self defense outside of their home, in the District of Columbia. As pointed out by the original poster, the Plaintiff's argument is really interesting and well worth a read. Best G [edited for spelling - Sun Mar 21, 2010]

Hi everyone. I heard recently that there used to be an outdoor range on Fresh Ponds Road in Milltown / East Brunswick. Does anyone know anything about it's history or current status? Many thanks and happy shooting G

People like different places for different reasons, which is as it should be. I'm a member at Shore Shot and I renewed my membership this year. I've bought two guns there and got very good prices I thought. Their ammo has been expensive but so what? It's your choice whether to buy it or bring your own (unless you rent, when you have to use theirs, but hell, tell me where else has such a selection of guns to rent ?? hmm???). They've helped me with a couple of little problems and their ROs are interested and involved. Are there some things I don't like - yes, a couple, but none that other busy ranges (eg the hole) don't also suffer from. It's a great place and I continue to like it. As far as the "BA vrs SS" debate is concerned, my only gripe is that neither of them is in middlesex county.... Good luck to everyone running a range and/or a store, I say. happy shooting G