Shane45

For some reason I can never warm up to the idea of a composite ar lower. But have no problem with it on my scar! Go figure...

He must have had this in mind:

Or have an extra hole in the side of the reciever

Um..no. I didnt even get so much as a downed branch!!!

Fails the compact, maneuverable criteria But back to reality as I said earlier, my real world choice would still likely be a 1911 even if I had a full auto P90 in the safe. Why? Because I have more time on the 1911 than everything else combined which translates into having greater confidence in my abilities with that platform.

OK Ray, Ill explain it another way so that even your short bus riding window licking, bad horseshoe throwing a$$ can understand. THEORETICAL BEST. Read it again, THEORETICAL BEST. As I said, Im not talking about practical, legal etc etc. Im talking about theoritcal best. Are you tracking yet? Boiled down the job at hand is to stop the bad guy as fast as possible/highest level of incapacitation with the weapon most suited to CQB. That is the narrow scope of a sub gun/PDW. It is purpose built for this role. It is why teams select it over shotguns or drum fed AK's for these types of operations.......

Thats what makes you Grand Poo Bah Mall Ninja extrordinaire Ray! Because all Mallinja's know heavy unwieldy weapons are great for CQB!

From what I have seen it seems that the M4 is getting the nod. The UMP's are pretty much in the same boat as the MP5's, parts are few and far in between.

The MP5's are being replaced everywhere. They have simply reached a point where they are economically unsustainable. When you are able to locate replacement parts they are in the stratosphere! That and certain departments that shall remain unnamed cant seem to keep the 9mm ammo out of their 40's! LOL.

Good info Griz, I was just trying to illustrate the #'s game contrast in response to DevAds question about ballistics. "What makes the ballistics of a full-auto 5.56 or 9mm any different than the ballistics of semi-auto 5.56 or 9mm?" 'DA Yes Ray we are LOOSELY talking about home defence but if you READ my post you would have seen I was miopically focused on "THEORETICAL" best with NO consideration to practicality, legality, or training. But I dont mind continuing the bench racing convo of shotty vs P90. So you suggest that pulling one big item out of a hole and stuffing 1 big item back into a hole and racking a slide is considerably harder, so much so you deem it impossible, compared to retrieving 6 or 7 small items in your hand and stuffing 1 into a side hole and 5 more up a shute! You have some funny ideas about human mechanics my friend.

As usual Ray, you speak without knowing what your talking aboutand the usual lack of reading comprehension thrown in. I would place a rather LARGE bet that I could reload a P90 before you could reload your shotgun. You dont run a subgun wide open like your movie fantasies. If 50 rounds isnt enough for you to get the job done, turn it around and push the trigger! I guess the SS should turn in their P90's since they are impossible to reload LOL.

Mostly from News 12. "If you get in your car and drive you run the risk of running into a road" clearly looking for anything to feed the mongering "Oh my god look at that bush blowing down the street" as a twig blew by. "When I stand out here in the rain, I can feel it hitting me" The one that pissed me off! "this is just like 911"

I will speak on the ballistics question and what makes the P90 different. I am not delving into any of the practicality or legality points which of course have validity in the real world. But since we are, in my opinion, in the theoretical world of best, I will speak to that. The difference in ballistics is quantity. IIRC the P90 fires around 800 rpm. So thats a 50 round mag in less than 2 seconds I believe. Because it runs like a sewing machine, keeping those bursts on target is easier to do than say a storm for example. So round to round they are the same. But when you compound the rounds on target giving a burst of say 12 rounds in half a second, well Im sure you get the picture. Erganomically they are different. In my opinion you wrap around a p90. I think it would be easier to take a pistol or non bullpup rifle from me compared to the P90. Your basically holding on to a pair of circles at the FRONT of the rifle. Thats a metric ton of control.

Well, a pistol has significant advantages as a HD weapon. This doesnt impeach the utility of other selections and in some individuals circumstances those advantages may not outweigh other factors. In my opinion its not a question that lends its self well to a poll as it is a highly individual choice. It, like most things firearms related, is full of compromise that can be(should be) largely dictated by the individual situation. Its important to understand that what works for most may not be the best choice for someone trying to figure out whats best for them.

Whichever one has a better NPA for you. Glocks point like a$$ for me.

Just skimming through this thread. Looks like there is a discussion on FA/subguns as a HD weapon. In my opinion the disagreement stems from a position of an absolute vs a practical solution. There is also a training/proficiency component. As much as I cant even begin to fathom a subgun in mediocre hands IF WE WERE IN FANTASY LAND OF NO RESTRICTIONS I could easily see picking a subgun for myself. I have time on FA P90 and Uzi. The P90 is an incredible package for tight quarters. A 2 round burst Kriss would be interesting as well. But back to the world of the realistic, the selection of a subgun for someone inexperienced with it would of course be a disaster. A subgun is a very narrow scope weapon. So for the practical real world, my vote was my pistol.

My total storm investment is 50 bucks. I bought plywood and boarded up. Thats it. My surefire kit http://www.surefire.com/M962XM07WEAPONLIGHTKIT comes with plenty of 10 year batteries in addition to all the reguler flashlights around the house. If power cuts out we will be grilling everything before it goes bad so I will eat well . If it gets to be long we will all jump in the truck and take a mini vacay to PA. I used to have a good sized generator but I sold it because I felt it would never really be practical if the issue was long enough to require one.

FWIW the SERPA is not a good holster in my opinion. Some training facilities are going so far as to not allow thier use. Reportedly they have a significant problem malfunctioning and locking the pistol in the holster.

I actually dumped my range bag and bought a tool box. It made sense to me as my bag mostly housed tools!

I MUST learn that vulcan hold that makes your oponent go perfectly still and allow you to shoot his partners. That is truly amazing. Better than a tazer even! Its like magic! I have seen the orange mags before. Some facilities do that so they can tell if everyones weapon is hot or not from a distance. Like I said before, the target market has become the mall ninja.....

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob62.html http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/81804-police-le-corrections-use-mini-14-a-3.html

One other point this early am before I head out the door. It doesnt have to be an AR!!! I know there are departments out there that have been issued Rugers.

Devils Advocate, let me play a little devils advocate . As a taxpayer would you rather see well trained, well equiped officers OR the new fancy schmancy camera's with OCR software that reads plates around the entire patrol car in case there is some secondary tax revenue to be had? In my mind this is a topic onto its self but govt has in some ways turned law enforcement into tax revenue. In my view this is simply wrong. When gismos win out over training, the corner has been turned and revanue has become the priority......

Again, not an expert in the field but I do believe this is incorrect. What has been learned from the AS situations that have occured is that if you wait, you allow a lot of people to get executed. So as I understand it the new thoughts on the topic are to get in there as fast as possible.