Shane45

Another scope in that price range that got good reviews is the Bushnell Elite Tactical which can be had mil/mil ffp.

If it performs as well as the one on the 308 did, it will be kick a$$. I agree that black accents can look cool. Regards, Shane

But there ARE different standards. Your dreaming if you think differently. Look at the CDL example. A truck driver gets 2 DUI's in his own vehicle, not while working. He looses his CDL for life I believe. THIS IS A DIFFERENT STANDARD. You think that a Judge who Judges for a living should not be held to a higher standard for showing bad judgement and breaking the law? You do not see the greater capacity for damage to society because of the responsibility he holds? If you really want to talk about different standards, think about everyone who serves in the Military. Not only do you recieve the punishment from wherever out in the civy community you had an infraction, you will also face military diciplinary action which is almost always harsher including loss of pay, rank etc etc. Again, a higher standard.

Wolfy, your dreaming. The world just doesnt work this way. Society simply wont accept porn stars for grade school teachers, criminals for cops, sexual predators for Gynocoligists, crack heads for judges, NO the only public profesion that does is Politicien LOL.

Of the scopes you listed, only the PST has the ret matched to the knob incriments. I do believe it is also FFP. I think you will find that reticles matched to the adjustments will be predominantly FFP scopes.

My humble opinion is that anyone working in LE MUST be held to a higher standard. I submit that the system its self believes this to be true. What other job has you go through extensive background checks and a psychological panel? Among the obvious reasons there are also fundamental reasons as well. Lets use a prosecuter for example. Prosecuter Jones is a crack addict. He has been found to be high as a kite. It was also learned that to support his habbit, he would let people off for a bribe. To keep appearences and convictions up it was also learned that he manufactured evidence against those that didnt pay. Now, even the case that was not tainted in any way has a great risk of being overturned because he was the prosecuter. So the rapist or murderer that belongs in prison may now go free. In my mind its the risk for this greater damage because of the position your in that drives the higher standard. Think about it. The DUI penalties are different for a CDL holder. So even truck drivers are held to a higher standard and suffer greater penalties even if they arent operating a commercial vehicle at the time of the DUI.

Finally, a competitior I couldnt stand got culled right out of the gate! I think that woman got into the shooting sports to look "BAD A$$" not because she has a love for the sport. Ive seen this time and again and not just shooting, riding sport bikes and drag racing too. Now there are some truly talented ladies out there shooting, riding and racing but it NEVER seems to be the attention seeking "BAD A$$" ones that are actually good at it!

Love it right up to the point you have to do a fast mag change or a left side barracade

Hehe if I had some tan on hand it would be but I dont think I will be patient enough to wait for some! Plus ya gotta have a little black on your evil black rifle

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_21/699063_.html

This little bugger is waiting for his new home which hopefully will be here by the weekend

If you are only shooting known distance and not shooting any movers or performing any ranging functions.... then it doesnt sound like it holds any benefit for you. In fact, if your just benching it all the time, you dont even need a mildot reticle. With that being said you might find yourself snared into wanting to be able to do more tacticle type shooting and less bench type shooting once you get out there in which case you will wish you did.

I just puked up into my mouth a little!

Ronhonda is correct. 2011 Long and wide. I know they arent in vogue these days but I always wanted one since when I competed in IPSC back in the 90's so when I came across a crusty old crumudgeon attacking it with a file I "rescued" it. He thought you could just assemble it like lego's. He had no idea the parts had to be fitted/machined etc etc hehe. The other, for those that are interested, is built on Caspian components. Its the SS recon rail frame and ss slide. That one is closer to 80% but I dont have any recent pics. A little story to go along with the Recon Rail. The serial number is my sons first name and the date of his 21'st birthday. As most of you already guessed, this is to be his 21st birthday present. Shane

Not a factory STI but one Im building from the ground up off of STI components. About 70% done.

Bought & Sold

If I were in the market for a 308 bolt gun I would buy that rifle!!!

Aimpoint! M3, M4, T1. I have played with just about all the higher end RDS. I only buy aimpoints. For special applications like piggy back, I would use Dr. Optics or Trijicon.

Man, im so far out of contention its not even funny! All my chit has been flowing out, not in!!! - DTA SRS - Robarm XCR - Colt 6940 - PS90 - Mossy 500 - DSA SA58 - LMT MWS - SCAR 17 - FN45 - HK P30L - Sig229 DE I dont feel so good now, im gonna go lay down!

The Call-Out Bag by Gunsite Training Center Staff A Comparison of .223 Penetration vs. Handgun Calibers The .223 shoulder-fired weapon systems (e.g., AUG, CAR) have received some recent interest as indoor tactical weapons for special operations teams. increased power, longer effective distances, and greater tactical flexibility have been cited as positive factors of the .223 systems over 9me SMG-type weapon systems. Other authors (Fackler, et all) have postulated greater capa-bility for tissue damage and incapacitation of the .223 rifle cartridge over the 9mm projectile fired from handguns or SMGs. Negative considerations for the indoor use of the .223 weapon systems focus on over-penetration of projectiles and possible subsequent liability. Our effort was made to compare the penetration characteristics of various .223 bullets to various handgun bullets fired into test barriers representing indoor and outdoor building walls. We felt that the following test might mimic shots fired from inside a building, through the internal rooms, out the exterior wall, and into another similar building nearby. A comparison of wall penetration effects by a variety of handgun calibers versus the effects of .223 FMJ ball, .223 SP, and .223 HP, under these same conditions, was expected to substantiate other findings reported or provide new information to those interested in this area of ballistics. Two interior test walls were constructed using a wood 2x4 frame with standard drywall board attached to both sides. Two exterior test walls were made using wooden frames with drywall board attached to one side and exterior grade T1-11 wooden siding attached on the other (exterior) side. R-19 fiberglass insulation batting (Dow Coming) was stapled inside the two exterior test wails. To maintain test medium consistency, no wooden cross beams, electrical fixtures, conduits, or electrical wiring were placed in any of the test walls. The test walls were placed in the following sequence to mimic shots fired from. inside a building, through two internal rooms, out the building, and into another similarly constructed building: A. Interior wall #1 was placed 8 feet from the shooting position. B. Interior wail #2 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wall #1. C. Exterior wall #1 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wail #2. (Exteri-or side facing away from the shooter.) D. Exterior wall #2 was placed 15 feet beyond exterior wall #1. (Exterior side facing toward the shooter.) All calibers tested were fired from a position 8 feet in front of interior wall #l, so the bullet trajectory would travel in sequence through each of the succeeding test walls. Each caliber tested was chronographed and all firing results were videotaped for archive files. The following results were obtained: 1. All handgun calibers exited exterior wall #1. This means they exited the "house" after passing through two interior "rooms," then entered another "house" to impact into the berm. The handgun caliber which demonstrated the least penetration was .22 LR Lightning. 2. The only calibers which did NOT exit the "house" were .223 (5.56) soft point and hollow point loaded bullets. 3. All projectiles demonstrated directional changes in their trajectory after passing through the first interior wall. The greatest directional changes (10 inches+ yaw) were shown by 9mm and .40 S&W projectiles. 4. Directional changes in bullet trajectory appeared to increase in magnitude with each test wall the projectile passed through. The penetration characteristics of projectiles have long been believed to be primarily determined by a relationship of bullet mass, bullet shape, bullet velocity, and bullet construction. The penetration differences of .223 soft point and hollow point projectiles versus the effects from .223 full metal jacket may be due to differences in bullet construction. The differential effects on penetration due to bullet construction shown with the .223 are different and appear greater in magnitude than those encountered when handgun bullet construction is modified. Since .223 projectile velocities are threefold greater than those of handgun projectiles, the increased magnitude of bullet velocity might account for the differences in bullet trajectory and penetration distance. The deviated trajectory of hollow point handgun projectiles was also greater than the deviation found with full metal jacketed handgun bullets; again, possibly due to contact point deformation. The preceding study more than ever identifies the need for a personal emphasis of marksmanship and tactical fundamentals. The shooter is responsible for the bullets that go downrange. Practice, be aware, manage your trigger, and watch your front sight! Many thanks to Jack Furr, Ron Benson, Pete Wright, and Seth NadeI, U.S. Customs, for conducting and reporting this test. .22 LR 40 gr Lightning 899 fps Captured in exterior wall #2 9mm 147gr Win JHP 948 fps Captured in exterior wall #2 9mm 147 gr Win JHP 1004 fps Exited exterior wall #2 .40 S&W 180 gr FMJ 941 fps Exited exterior wall #2 .40 S&W 180 gr Black Talon JHP 981 fps Exited exterior wall #2 .45 ACP 230 gr Win FMJ ball 867 fps Captured in exterior wall #2 .45 ACP 230 gr HydraShok JHP 851 fps Exited exterior wall #2 .223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed FMJ ball 2956 fps Exited exterior wall #2 .223 (5.56) 55 gr Rem SP 3019 fps Captured in exterior wall #2 .223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed JHP 3012 fps Captured in exterior wall #2 .223/5.56 Penetration Tests vs. .40 S&W and 12 ga. Slug Overview The research on the penetration of .223 ammunition has been completed. In an effort to make research more meaningful, testing consisted of handgun and shotgun ammunition in the same testing medium. The final results were that the .223 demonstrated less penetration capability than the 12 gauge slug and the .40S&W [handgun round]. Testing Medium Type 250A Ordnance Gelatin was cast into blocks, 6"x6"x16". The process used is that which is recommended by Col. M. Fackler, Director of the US Army Wound Ballistics Laboratory. This is a 10% mixture, 1Kg of gelatin to 9000ml of H2O. This type of gelatin accurately simulates human body tissue in terms of bullet penetration. A small piece of wall was constructed to duplicate the standard exterior walls found in [the Pacific Northwest] area. This piece of wall was sheeted with ½" wafer board, covered with a 2nd piece of ½" wafer board to simulate siding. This wall was built using a 2x4 frame and finished on the inside with ½" sheet rock. The interior [of the wall] was lined with fiberglass insulation. Weapons Used CAR-15, cal .223 Rem./5.56x45mm with a 16" barrel. Glock M22, cal .40S&W. Remington 870, 12 ga. Ammunition Used Federal .223 Remington, 55 grain HP. Winchester .40S&W, 180 grain HP. Federal 12 ga., 2 ¾", rifled slug. Procedure All rounds were fired from a distance of 12 feet. After each round was fired, its penetration was recorded and bullet performance noted. After a bullet was fired into the [bare] gelatin, another bullet of the same type was fired through the section of wall and into the gelatin. This was done in order to determine its penetration potential in the event a stray round were to hit the wall of a building. Results Caliber Testing medium Penetration Condition of bullet .223 Rem. gelatin only 9.5" two pieces .223 Rem. wall & gelatin 5.5" * fragmented .40S&W gelatin only 13.5" mushroomed .40S&W wall & gelatin 22" * no deformation .40S&W wall & gelatin 22" * no deformation .40S&W† wall & gelatin 19.5" * slight deformation 12 ga. wall & gelatin 27.5" mushroomed * these measurements do not include penetration of the 6" wall. † CCI Gold Dot. Summary The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the overpenetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition. The hollow point cavity in the .40S&W round filled with material when shot through the wall. This caused [these bullets] to fail to expand when they entered the gelatin. As a result, they penetrated 8.5" farther than when shot directly into the gelatin. When the .223 [HP] was shot through he wall it began to fragment and as a result penetrated the gelatin only 5.5". Because the .223 [HP] begins to break up on impact, it has less potential for damage or injury than the 12 ga. in the event of a ricochet. The .223 [HP] is obviously safer in an urban environment than the 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot. Additional testing conducted proved that the .223 would penetrate a car door or glass. The .223 rounds fired into windshields began to break up after entering the glass and did not retain much energy. In most cases these rounds split in two. ALL OF THE INFORMATION IN THIS ARTICLE IS BASED UPON THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY BE USING SPECIAL TOOLS, PRODUCTS, EQUIPMENT AND COMPONENTS UNDER PARTICULAR CONDITIONS AND CIRCUMSTANCES, SOME OR ALL OF WHICH MAY NOT BE REPORTED, NOR OTHERWISE VERIFIED IN THIS ARTICLE. NOTHING HEREIN IS INTENDED TO CONSTITUTE A MANUAL FOR THE USE OF ANY PRODUCT OR THE CARRYING OUT OF ANY PROCEDURE OR PROCESS. THE WRITERS, EDITORS, AND PUBLISHERS OF THIS ARTICLE ACCEPT NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY LIABILITY, INJURIES OR DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY PERSON’S ATTEMPT TO RELY UPON ANY INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN. __________________ Colt M16/AR15,1911 & Glock Armorer. Certified Firearms Instructor & Urban Rifle Instructor. Completed SWAT Entry Team and SWAT Sniper courses. NRA Endowment Member USPSA A 56876 B class

308 would be a bad choice unless you live alone in the middle of nowhere. As for handgun vs 5.56 rounds, a fairly comprehensive test was done at Gunsight if Im not mistaken. IIRC handgun rounds exited the test buildings more than rifle rounds by a fair margin. Ill see if my search fu is strong this AM.

Im not a fan of piston conversions and I am less a fan of LWRC. I have had to many friends end up with broken rifles, cust service issues etc etc. I hear they have gotten much better on cust service but, I would just much rather have a rifle designed as a piston rifle to begin with, not a patchwork. Im about to buy an AR this week myself. I am going for another KAC. But that rifle holds the features that are important to me. The features important to you may be different. Shane

Could be different philosophies OR it could be just another mental tool in your bag of many. More tools in the bag, more to choose from for the bazzillion scenarios that are possible.

I realise that we as a non target audience will be much more critical. But it would be nice to see a real project come along. And just for the sake of clarity, I am sure there is some merit to what they actually do there. They seem to be good enough guys. I just cant help but get that same feeling I get when Im in a gun store and someone starts belting out the, when was a sniper for seal team 9, Devgru Delta force in the nam........ Vlad, agreed if I HAD to do it, a 308 would be the platform. As to the Daughter, Im not easy to gross out but you guys have managed!

What I was alluding to was simply the practice that goes on with all brands paying to have their stuff splashed on the screen or even in video games. Transformers comes to mind. It was so blatent in the movie it was distracting LOL. OK we get it Cisco paid you a lot of money to do slow transitions past Cisco equipment showing the logo. Anyway that was my thought behind the motivation of picking an AK rifle for a precision semi build.