Dan

Is this Keltec's strategy? To release 2 per month to keep the prices high? Then again, with their history, their manufacturing capacity is probably only 2 per month, so I guess they don't have a choice. I'm seeing $880 is the new MSRP, and with how popular it will be if they actually make more than 2 per month... the price will remain at or most likely above MSRP. Going to set another yearly timer on my wait-for-KSG-clock.

hobby/enjoyment/fun self defense eventually I'd like to get into games

WTF at making "bump keys" illegal. They can be used as legitimate tools. Of course if you use one illegally, to break into a house, aren't there already laws against that sort of thing? On another note, anyone who doesn't know about lock bumping, it pretty much makes most locks you would buy at any hardware store useless. And using them does not leave any traces of a break in as the lock is not damaged. This prompted me to install Mul-t-lock high security deadbolts on my doors. There are other bump-resistant high security lock companies out there that provide similar products as well.

Thanks, I will.

How about an Marlin 1894 lever action in .357 mag?

I do agree that a good way to start introducing someone to shooting and guns is via the hobby/sporting perspective. To take them to the range, teach them safety and the basics, and let them have a good time. I'm personally responsible for 4 people going out and getting FID's and first guns with this approach. This works great with people on the fence, open minded, or at least has a hint of curiosity around firearms. For those adamant anti's who feel they know what's best for me, and want to impose their own views of their socialist utopia vision on me via erosion of my rights, my arguments and counter-points have a bit of a different twist more along the lines of what I wrote above regarding self defense and unalienable rights.

I defer to the three pages of discussion on this topic for both sides of the argument.

Grandmother has it right... "something's wrong with him, he's not right"

The problem with sticking to hobbies/sports, is that the anti's then say "well then you don't need an evil black rifle, or be able to hold more than 15 rounds, or buy more than one gun a month, or have anything more powerful than xx type of round" and the list goes on. Any justification you can provide for your hobby/sport will be "shot" down by the anti's overriding sense of you giving up these things on the grounds of the "greater good of public safety is more important than your esoteric hobby". The right to self-defense is unalienable absolute right. The right to own and carry guns is provided by our constitution with the very strong words "shall not be infringed". Was this to protect shooting hobbies and sports? I don't think so. The right to keep and bear arms is unquestionably linked to the absolute right of self defense. To deny the right to arms is to deny a person's right to protect themselves with one of the most powerful self-defense tools available for the past 200 years. No-one can question me that I feel that I need a semi-automatic rifle with 30 round magazines to protect my home and family. I'm not concerned if someone feels that is too much or too little, it is what I need and have a right to have.

Magpul MOE for simplicity, Magpul ACS for utility and ergo's (locks tight no wiggle, nice cheek-weld/comfort)

Daniel Defense Lite 12"

You can make a deal with one of our forum gun dealer vendors to make something like this http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct853.aspx NJ compliant. They would have to shave off the bayonet lug, weld a muzzle brake, and sell it with a 15 rnd or less mag. It is a "C-15" rifle using lots of original colt parts. I would just have them verify that the receiver or anywhere on the gun for that matter doesn't say "AR-15" or "CAR-15" because that would make it a ban by "name" rifle.

If you find a good deal on corrosive, its not that bad. No argument that non-corrosive is much easier as you can let the rifle sit between cleanings. Corrosive its a good idea to clean it the day you shoot it. Why shoot corrosive? Sometimes you can find higher quality corrosive ammo cheaper or close to the same price of cheapest non-corrosive ammo, like that Yugo brass cased ammo linked above. Buy a bottle of Ballistol and an empty spray bottle. Mix a 1:10 ratio Ballistol to water in the bottle. Shake and spray inside the bore, gas system, and anything that has cartridge residue. Wipe away and clean the gun as usual with whatever gun cleaning products that you use. A heatgun or blow-dryer is nice to get the gun bone dry after the water spray, but not necessary provided you maintain the gun well (wipe down with oil etc for storage).

If it is on the named list, it is illegal, as in the name being on the firearm. If it is not on the named list, the test is the NJAC evil feature list to see if it is "substantially identical". If it passes the evil feature test, then it is not "substantially identical" and good to go. The latest BS with the M1 carbine look-alike and I/O AK look-alike revolves around the AG harassing dealers into not selling them, and in a sense placing a defacto-ban on allowing any dealer to sell them in NJ. They are claiming "substantially identical" without using the NJAC evil feature list test. Is it wrong? Absolutely. Basically the AG is flat out daring a dealer to sell these rifles, get arrested/charged, and slug it out in court. There is a good chance the dealer will win, but most likely only after bankrupting him/her and screwing over their NJ dealer status and even their FFL. Too much to loose, too little to gain in the eyes of someone trying to make a living in the already tough business of being a gun dealer in NJ.

Its to fight the dvr and FF commercial method of watching TV. Advertisers see people fast forwarding commercials as a huge threat, and that they aren't getting their money's worth out of advertising with normal commercials any longer. At least your TV doesn't scan your retina for your identity to custom tailor ads targeted at your interests and past purchasing behaviors.... YET.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm on the list for a Sig 9mm 1911 traditional match elite in SS. My first choice was the S&W pro , but it is tracking in at around $500 more over the Sig. I'm sure its worth it, and there are reasons for the price difference, but that's some big bucks right there for an already expensive commitment. From what I hear, the Sig should be good an hold up to its name.

Only think I'd say is to look at a SPR worthy trigger / FCG. I'm very happy with my Geissele SSA-E and SD3G, but there are plenty of other good options out there as well. Should be fun assembling yourself. Do you have the necessary vice blocks and tools for attaching the barrel to the upper receiver?

According to the interweb consensus that I found, seems the power and accuracy needed for deer hunting @100 yards, the 7.62x39 would serve you well. If you are going for precision/target at ranges beyond 200 yards, the choice may not be so good.You don't see precision/benchrest shooters using 7.62x39, I don't even need to comment on how much .308 is used for precision shooting. .308 is more expensive, but you will probably be shooting around 30-40 shots from your bolt gun before you want to give it a rest and move to something else. Plus, if you are going for precision rather then blasting/plinking, you'll spend some time on those 30 rounds. You'll be able to find plenty of surplus .308 out there, with brass re-loadable cases. Won't be like shooting match ammo, but you should have some fun. Save the brass, and eventually set up for reloading. just my 2 cents

Are you kidding me? Here's what I see: Either the thief is a shooter him/herself and plans on using this set on their private land, unless they are as brash to bring them to the handful of clubs here in NJ risking raising suspicion. Sell for a whole $40 as scrap Sell on ebay/craigslist

How did this turn into a class(wealthy), race (white) thing. If someone feels what color a person's skin is and how much money they have influences the level of justice that person receives in our society, best to start a new thread on that one. Lets see how far it gets.

I suppose it would have to be argued in a new case that NJ requiring a FID card to purchase long airguns and a PP for air pistols, that this process is so onerous that it violates federal preemptive law. One example would be for a person who is not qualified to obtain a NJ FID. That person would in essence be prohibited from purchasing a pellet gun in NJ, thus violating federal law. What I find interesting with this case, is that the same argument can be used in our struggle for CCW. That NJ's CCW process are so substaintial and restrictive that it qualifies as a de-facto prohibition on the individual R2KBA in NJ. Even with getting the AWB repealed.

Violating local discharge laws are one thing, usually disorderly persons minor crime. If that property isn't owned by him, he is in much deeper water with unlawful possession of a handgun, 2nd degree felony. 5-10 years, ouch. So many people get their PPP, pick up their HG, and have no idea of the crazy laws around where and what you can do with it. I remember when I was 21 and got my first HG... I cringe when I think back.

OK I see what you mean. Then I'll agree that regulation is possible of air guns in NJ, but that regulation cannot serve to inhibit from someone who is not a minor from going to a store and purchasing an airgun. The fact is , current NJ laws around the "regulation" of airguns, are the same for firearms, which would in fact violate federal preemptive law. NJ would have to create new laws specifically around airguns, carefully tailored as to not override federal law. I've highlighted the important parts below, but all of it is a good read. ANJRPC v. Florio 1990, 744 F. Supp. 602

IMO, IANAL, Technically according to 2C:39-5 if someone has their FID card, you can posses unloaded rifles and shotguns without needing to do any of the special transport requirements outlined in 2C:39-6 g. rules (closed box, limited deviations, etc). So technically you could sling the rifle and drive around with it. Being this is NJ, you will be harassed, and they may try to charge you with some type of disturbing the peace type of thing. That being said, a discrete bag or something would work slung around your back. Just be sure the rifle is unloaded. Depending on the gun, you may be able to break it down for a more compact package.

Heller II refers to firearms, and did not challenge any existing federal preemptive laws around firearms. Not sure where the argument here applies to airguns. If USC 15,76,5001 says that state and local laws cannot prohibit the sale of airguns "except to minors", then any type of regulatory, prohibitory, or other type of preventative ordinance, etc to purchasing (and thus implying possession) of airguns, to other than minors, is against federal preemptive law. Just like NJ gun laws where guns are illegal except under certain exemptions. According to federal preemptive law, airguns are legal except under one exemption which is being a minor.