Dan

I'd be interested to know if the personnel at these companies that allegedly own the guns they use had to fill out a purchase permit along with the carry permit. I'm betting that the gun they are issued has been legally transferred to them in paperwork via a pistol purchase permit (which is really a form of ownership transfer) or in the carry permit process as I understand the carry permits may identify specific guns they can carry along with other stipulations. As for Bullet Hole, aren't they a FFL/dealer? In which case they are permitted to temporarily transfer any gun on their premiss for target shooting. If they left the property with a HG without going through the PP/COE process that would be an illegal transfer employee or not.

Ah, much better pic. Cool on the BC1.5.

My interpretation: Technically , the transfer of the owner's gun to you would constitute an illegal transfer if the owner is not with you in the vicinity at all times. How to avoid any issues: Both of you fill out COE's and sign/date them, technically transferring ownership of the rifle to you. When you return, fill out another set, transferring the rifle back to the original owner. Will take 10 min , but will keep you 100% legal.

Very Nice! Check out the Timbersmith stock sets if you want to pimp it up a tad. What kind of brake is tacked on the BCM upper there? Can't tell from the photo (its a bit fuzzy).

Back on topic... Of course all IMO, and NJ gun laws are wrought with contradictions, but this argument supports my logic above. Any other statute, such as 2C:39-6, and "disposition" (defined as "final arrangement"), i.e. keeping or carrying "any firearm".

Good read Paul. I like this part pertaining to retired officers: Seems many un-retired officers have it the other way around these days.... Latest example is Miami cops holding guns up to crime witness's heads in order to intimidate and take their cellphones away to be smashed on the ground to cover up any video recording evidence of police activity around the Memorial Day shooting.

Guy sounds like a tool. Your options: a) Make it a big deal, call/write the owner and see what happens. Maybe they will fire the tool after so many complaints, or maybe they will blow smoke up your azz. Would be interesting to find out. or b) Don't waste your time and take your business someplace else. You shouldn't have to prove how good of a customer you are to be treated respectfully. If the guy doesn't like showing guns, he should get a new job.

Old School, some of us find it fun to try to decipher our state's arcane and contradictory gun laws. Its become sort of an extension of the hobby for me, kind of like reloading, another example of something some people love and other's hate.

Hah at the Bill Clinton comment, pretty funny. I still think my argument holds water though.

I don't think so, as there is no transfer going on. The person that lives in the home where there is a firearm located, is permitted to take possession of said "any firearm" without a need for a transfer to take place. My example is the wife taking the husband's HG from the safe herself. He is not transferring it to her, she is taking possession. The exemption clearly indicates that the wife in her dwelling/residence/land she possesses is completely within the bounds of the law. Would go like this: NJ to husband "did you give the HG in question to your wife?" husband " No, she took it from my safe, she is permitted to carry a firearm in her own dwelling, residence, and land according to NJ exemptions" Now when transfers come into play, is when a person takes their gun outside of their dwelling/residence/land/business and gives the gun to someone else to use (range, hunting, etc). It also applies in the person's own dwelling/land/residence/business when handing a gun to someone visiting who does not legally reside there. The act of the gun owner taking the gun outside of the exemption locations (dwelling/residence/land/business) would imply that if anyone else became in possession of the gun, a transfer would have NEEDED to occur. Not so for family in their home, where they can just take possession without precursors being met in terms of a transfer needing to take place.

So this means bad guys will just paint their guns bright colors... My link I don't get it. Me and friends used to play with toy guns all the time, cops n robbers, etc. We were never shot at by the police. I guess things are getting really bad out there in LA.

I'm not saying "any person" , I'm saying a person who legally lives at or owns the dwelling/residence/land, or works at a "place of business" (a fixed location according to the exemptions) is permitted to posses "any firearm" while in these locations. "any firearm" in its plain definition is just that... any...provided the person is not a prohibited person, or the gun is illegal aka AW, etc.

I'll bite on this.... check out my logic here. There is a fine line between transferring guns to visitors versus family or others legally living at a residence or land, etc. Notice how the exemption does not specify "owned firearm", it says "any firearm". There are two hurdles at play here. The straw purchase and the illegal transfer angles. For a straw purchase to play out, the state would have to prove that you intentionally purchased the HG for your wife under your PP/FID. This would be difficult to prove since you live in the same house, and you obviously keep your guns in your home where the rest of your family lives. For the illegal transfer section of the law, the exemptions talk about places not including dwelling, land , or business, they talk of ranges and hunting on state property and such. I'm starting to think that the reason for this is that the dwelling, land, business exemptions above pretty much covers that a person can possess ANY firearm in those places provided they live or work there, whether that gun is theirs or someone else's. There is no language of ownership in the exemption. In other words, they take possession of the firearm themselves, as in your wife taking it out of the safe herself. Of course this wouldn't work if you kept your gun at a friends house, and they grabbed it and used it. In that case, the straw purchase angle looks to be more provable, as it would be easy to construe that you purchased the guns for your friend since you do not live at his house. Also, there are no exemptions for traveling from your house to his house with a HG, so the illegal transfer comes into play in that case as well. Also it still stands that handing a HG to a visiting friend that does not legally live at your home is still considered an illegal transfer, as that friend is not at their dwelling, land, residence, or place of business. Legally it is the same as you handing it to him on the street. Bottom line is that your home and land it is OK for any family member or person that legally lives at your address to posses and use a gun provided they are not prohibited persons.

I use C-clamps also. Not eloquent, but gets the job done when you only do it once every few years.

Off topic: I have an 01 WRX wagon with ABS. I've done the brakes twice now (just recently in fact). I haven't done the rears, as they always last much longer, they were only changed once and that time I paid a shop b/c I was lazy. Very easy, no different than any other car. Two bolts off comes the caliper. There is nothing fancy that has to be done differently. On topic: I'm assuming a field strip is not the same as "Taking it apart" as in the trigger system, pins, etc...

That looks to be fore a 16". I'm looking for 18". Also when I did build out the 16" to be equivalent to the BCM i'm looking at the price was about the same , about $15 even with factoring in the RRA coming with the BCG. Yea this it turning out to be my conclusion as well. That's exactly what I'm going for , a SPR / SDM type build that I intend to put a scope on and reload with quality components for. Thanks all for the feedback!

Thanks, I was aware of the BCG and handle. If anyone knows a good 18" quality middy upper at a better price point, i'm all ears!

Good point, can't be tried twice for the same crime.

Sure I could build a budget carbine for that price, but that's not what I'm looking for. If you add up all the components that go into this upper, it comes to around $650-ish. So basically they charge $80 for assembly and testing.

Good info Glenn. I doubt the state will appeal this just as they didn't in NJ v Robert Merrill over the MAK90. The unfortunate thing is these types of cases may be going on all over the state, with the state loosing over the same reasons and we either a) don't know about it, or b) fail to capitalize on it. I sure hope someone knows all these cases, so when the time comes to challenge the NJ AWB, they can be used as examples.

Exactly, doesn't lead to more fraud, just the impact if fraud does indeed occur. I'd rather it be on a credit card than a debit card. Plus, debit cards these days are "check cards", meaning they can be used like any other visa/mastercard for purchases without the pin. Swipe and buy. The pin is only used when getting cash. This is why some stores ask if you are using it as debit or credit, b/c then they would need to have you punch your pin in the pad. If a bad guy got your check card's number/expiry/auth code ,even without the pin, they can start charging it up with purchases with funds coming right out of your bank account.

Don't do it. No. Forget about it.. walk away... Wait... you say it has an optics rail? A really sweet price? You are in the market for a Open Class 1911? OK just buy it. ;p

I've been telling people for years not to use their "check cards" aks "debit cards" for purchases. Lots of them scoff at me and say how they are protected. A few of these people I know got burned, and now they only use their cards for ATM withdraws. Its just a hassle when it is your money that is being taken, as opposed to a CC in which it is the bank's money. I'm amazed that the banks haven't gotten together and really put some effort into introducing SOME kind of security into the debit/credit card system. It is a complete joke nowadays. In the UK they have been using the "chip and pin" system for awhile now very successfully. When it comes down to it, the CC processors don't want to spend the $$ in revamping the whole system. Apparently it is cheaper for them to take fraud losses than do it.

Guys, I'm eyeing my next build here. Looking at uppers right now. I'd like to go with an 18" bbl this time. I'm going for velocity here as I'd like to make this a quasi-precision type setup for extended ranges out past where my 14.5" AR wouldn't be optimal. So far I keep heading back to this upper from BCM My link . Anyone have a 18" SS bbl from BCM? I'd like to hear opinions on it. Also, I think I may go with a battlecomp for it. I know its cosmetic only, but what are your thoughts on black or matte stainless finish on the BC when used on a SS barrel? Thanks

Pretty sure a company cannot own a gun (except for dealers/ffl, etc). You can't give a FID to a company, and you can't run a NICS check on a company. Ultimately the gun has to be purchased and owned by a person. My cousin worked for an armed guard company here in NJ. He had get his FID/PP, buy his own gun, then use the company letter to obtain a provisional NJ carry permit. He kept the gun at home, and brought it to work with him under typical travel exemptions, and carried it only while on the clock. The easiest way would be for the worker to get a FID and purchase the shotgun them self, then they can submit an expense form to get reimbursed by the company. I can't see how that is a straw purchase as the purchaser did all the paperwork, and ultimately owns the gun. If my wife gave me $500 and I went a bought a gun with that money it is fine. It is a straw purchase if he then gave the gun to someone else, or his intentions were to purchase it for someone else. If they want to keep it at work, the exemptions allow for this. I would have it locked up with only the owner knowing the code to be on the safe side.