High Exposure

For social work I would take a subgun or a PCC over a pistol all day - better range and accuracy, possibly better ballistics to a point - but I'd prefer a rifle. My PCC lives in the safe and is used for steel comps only. It is set up identical to my work and training gun, but only so it feels generally the same. I think you are right Shane, but I never really looked into it. Duty ammo is designed to work best within a certain parameter - one of which is velocity which can be effected in both directions by barrel length. Makes sense that you We used 115gr GDHP in our MP5s when we had them, but were phasing them out in favor of M4s by the time I joined the team and was issued one. We didn't spend a whole lot of time comparing the effectiveness of the pistol v subgun round. And they were 8" barrels if I remember correctly.

I don't know of any real study into it for a few reasons. 1) There isn't a huge market for .40 carbines (I have a .40 AR that takes Glock mags, only because .40 ammo and mags is what I have the most of) and it was a pain sourcing parts for it. 2) Most service/duty type Sub guns have barrels in the 7"-10" range. 3) Any agncey that would really want that data before deciding what to issue realize that a rifle in .223/5.56 will do everything a sub gun can do better, with a few niche exceptions.

Hey! Thanks for the nudge to this post DT. I wouldn't have seen it otherwise. What a happy accident. A Buddy of mine guested me to his range to troubleshoot one of his guns and I run into Griz and Peel! Too cool. It's a small gun owning world in this god forsaken state. I've texted with Griz a bit, but my first time talking with Peel. I am mad we all haven't chatted sooner. And what a good idea to start calling/texting folks. I figured with the long weekend everyone would be tied up, but quite a few of us got together. I stayed a little longer than I should have - been on extra chore duty and family time since - it totally worth it. Peel, I like your style. I think we had a quorum for that to be considered an official NJGF meetup.

This little rifle recently caught my eye and despite not having a huge love of bolt guns, I want one desperately... Anyone have one? What are your thoughts?

Jealous! I know I have posted this before. I want to build one of these in .45-70 or .30-30 (can't decide) and a second in .38/.357 so badly:

Don't just buy any 00B. Buy something designed to shoot people trying to kill you in your home, not deer in the woods. Generally, "tactical" or LE rounds are a good choice for HD. Federal Flight Control stuff and Hornady TAP are amazing for keeping tight groups and reducing flyers at distance.

Says the guy that picks Chappie and D13.

No thanks. Maybe if I was doing VBSS work I would think about using it. I find it interesting that they use gallons of water and not ballistic gelatin to demo their rounds... Ah ha! Here's why, it does poorly in ballistic gelatin - the standard for testing the terminal ballistics of ammunition. From the highly respected DocGKR (Dr. Gary Roberts) ~ 2006 time frame: There is a reason they went out of business. There is a reason that so few LEO Dept and Mil/Gov agencies issued it, and only for a short time period. I also am not a fan of a shotgun for HD and prefer my AR, but the shotgun in my safe is loaded with Hornady TAP 8 pellet 00B while I look for Federal Flight control #1B, which is always sold out....

What? As good gun movies? You can't be serious. Half of D13 was video game guns.

So you are conducting a select buck drill if you need to take a longer shot? That's retarded. Set the gun up right from the get go and take the shot you need to take. At room distances, in a 1st world home 00/#1 rules the roost. You have a round (00/#1 B) that is a proven suitable FISHing at normal room distances and will arguably stop an aggressive attacker most times and you choose to use something less effective? Tell me how that mkes sense? Shooting high brass? What are your split times vs 00 in a tactical low recoil load? Doesn't make sense bro.

Ray, I have personally seen victims of attempted suicide with birdshot walk themselves to an ambulance. We are talking contact distance to the face. Gruesome to be sure, but completely superficial. I just had dinner with a friend who is retired NYPD cool guy. He has witnessed the same thing on multiple occasions. Accidental and purposeful shootings of self - at contact distances - with birdshot. Victims walks themselves to the Ambo. There just isn't enough mass in the shot to retain velocity and it leaves a nasty looking but shallow and superficial wound. Why go with a maybe when you can have an almost certainly? I don't aspire to mediocrity.

I went to Belize for my Honeymoon. We stayed a week in the mountains near Guatemala and a week near the ocean. I fully support the endorsement of Belizian Bacon!! Amazing!

Ray, you are nuts. Miami Vice had some pretty good gun handling. Hell, most of Michael Mann's stuff was all good as far as gun handling. He was a shooter.

Sinners and Saints has some of the best gunplay I have seen on film:

It OK Ray. This is America! I support your decision to be willfully wrong and tell us all about it! If a shotgun is your choice for HD: Low recoil/Tactical 00 or #1 buck, preferably in a Flight Control type round, is the way to go for social shotgun work inside and around typical CONUS homes.

Oogabooga, may indirect your attention here: https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/54786-pork-roll-or-taylor-ham/#comment-705026 Please vote your conscience and support you Pork Roll brothers.

What do you mean by "real gun"?

What if it's from a well?

I am shocked Peel. Shocked and saddened. Taylor Ham It is referred to as Pork Roll and it is glorious. Taylor's Pork Roll is acceptable, but it most certainly isn't Ham. A sub is any sandwich on a long roll. It is just "sub", not submarine. It is not called a hoagie, or *shudder* a grinder, by anyone that matters. A faucet is inside your home, a spigot is outside. It is soda, not pop.

In Princeton and this is a live fire training course.

Friend of mine is hosting a rare OPEN ENROLLMENT VTAC 3 Day Pistol Course with Chili Palmer in Princeton, September 11 - Sept 13, 2017. Class is limited to 17 students. Please contact him via email for registration information: [email protected] From the VTAC website: Pistol 1.5 The Viking Tactics Pistol Course 1.5 is designed to give the shooter the needed expertise to use their pistol in a confrontational situation. This course is designed for shooters who are comfortable handling their weapon but would like to push beyond their current limits. VTAC Pistol 1.5 will push the limits of what you previously thought possible. This course is physically demanding. The following subjects will be covered. The 2 day course will not cover shooting scenarios and situations. Course prerequisites, VTAC Basic Pistol Course or equivalent. Fighting Stance Weapon Retention Barricade/Field Positions Proper Loading Techniques Malfunctions Shooting while moving Facing Movements Carbine/Pistol (Five Day) Terminal Ballistics Corner Clears Quick Target Acquisition Support Side Shooting Support Side Draws and Malfunction Clearances Target Discrimination

Here's some 1903s (without scopes - I know they were issued through 1945 in a DM/Sniper type role) in the jungle after 1941. There are a few M1 rifles and the dude on the left has a badass BAR chest rig.

My grandfather was issued an 03 in bootcamp and carried that until he was issued an M1 with a broken stock in Italy before being captured by the Krauts and spending 13 months in a German POW camp.

Dude, assuming someones gender is so 2016. But, if you were a trained observer, you would see Female in her bio.

Pretty good article if you are a fan of the US Rifle Cal .30 M1 Some interesting trivia, but the claim that by the end of 1941 the army had been completely outfitted with the M1 rifle seems dubious to me. That may I've been true in the ETO but I'm pretty sure there were lots of 1903s in service in the PTO for quite a while after 1941. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/13/a-look-back-at-the-m1-garand/