illy

And if the Bible's not your cup of tea, no matter. The importance of justice in "Man's Law" is the more convincing argument anyway. The text of the video I posted above: Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law! Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that! More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down (and you're just the man to do it!), do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

If you'd have us 'bone up' on Con Law in order to address your posting you should afford us the same courtesy. As it stands, you're just making stuff up. So here's how SCOTUS has defined cruel (J. Brennan writing for the majority in a 1972 case): What's obviously implicit in this and prior rulings, though not directly addressed in Brennan's 4-part test, is that "Unusual" doesn't mean rarely used. It's a legal term which, for the purposes of constitutional analysis, means lacking precedent;, not established by "long usage"; and innovation. Being "unusual" in and of itself does NOT make the punishment unconstitutional. Rather, it has to be both "unusual" and fail to 4-pronged cruelty test. Amputation certainly lacks precedent and long usage as a punishment in our society. So it is "unusual". I would also fail the third test, without doubt. I'd say it would 1 and 4 just as undoubtedly. As for #2, someone somewhere might be able to a cogent argument against its arbitrariness, but so what, it's already plainly unconstitutional on the other 3 cruelty tests, plus it's unusual. So, no thanks. Preserving the amazing document that is our Bill of Rights far outweighs your or anyone else's desire for retribution*. *I'm a big proponent of being armed for self-defense. I know that I wouldn't hesitate if the need arose. But revenge? That's not justice. Not by a long stretch. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Romans 12:17-19

What's the statute?

Sorry, I updated my post above. As to my relationship to islam- I grew up in Paterson and so by default I’ve known A LOT of Muslims ever since I was a kid. Some of them, very close friends. As it turns out, they're almost exactly like anyone else: i.e. there are @$$holes, nice people, criminals, cops, politicians, doctors, you get the idea. And also I bothered to learn about the religion, especially after 9/11 and I have no problem with it at all. But the effing radicals... ugh. The radicalization problem is really easy to explain. Imagine if the Westboro jerkoffs somehow got really rich AND were able to take control of an entire area the size of Alaska and Texas put together, all way before the spread of mass communications. And then they struck oil. That's exactly what happened to the Muslims. 200+ years ago, a Westboro-style wacko preacher named Abdul-Wahab teamed up with a rich Arabian guy named ibn Saud. They took over Arabia, renamed it after the rich guy and forced Wahabi-style Islam on everyone in the country. Then they struck oil and starting using the money to spread their brand of religion. Throw in some post-colonial geopolitics and here we are. Trust me, most Muslims want nothing to do with this garbage. But they have no more power to change it than you or I, other than speaking out against it and trying to teach their kids better. PS, I wouldn't call anyone here a bigot for disagreeing. If not for where I grew up, I probably wouldn't anymore about this than the average American does. But since I do, I feel like I should speak up and would hope you'd at least consider things might not be as black and white as it sometimes seems.

ok EDIT: Sorry, my first response was probably too dismisive. What else can they do? What would you advise? Go out vigilante style and "find the terrorists"? Why don't you do that, if you think it would help? All the reports about these two from Boston is that no one, not family, friends, classmates, trainers, again no one, had any clue. And if you really think that muslims, who just want to live, work and raise their families in America are somehow happy everytime scumbags ike these manage to kill a handful of innocent people, you're way off. The opposite actually. Everytime something like this happens, they're more upset than the rest of us. And for good reason. It's both an attack on their country AND another incident that makes the tinfoil wackos feel justified in their hatred and paranoia. Really, there's no worldwide islamo-conspiracy to overtake America, lol. The vast majority of Muslims want nothing other than what we do: Earn a living, buy a home, educate our kids and hope they have it better than we do. And I say this with confidence because I actually know a fair number of Muslims. Everyone of them is a loyal American (more than a few are former military and/or current law-enforcement). In places like Afghanistan, we've made the progress we have because Afghans on the ground have been helping us since day one. Speaking of overseas, wanna guess who are the biggest targets and victims of radical "muslim" terrorism worldwide? That's right, other Muslims, by a lot. You really think that regular, everyday muslims don't hate these people more than we do? That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as condemning all White southerners who didn't take up arms against the Klan in the 1950s for not 'doing enough'. You know, "good men doing nothing" and all that...

That list is a few years old, so of course there's been a bunch more since. This was the statement published by the "Islamic Society of Boston" the day of the bombings: The Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center and the Boston-Muslim community are deeply saddened by the tragic occurrence at the Boston Marathon and JFK Library, both icons of our great City. We are concerned for the loss of life and injuries to the victims. Our prayers and thoughts go out to the victims and their families, to the marathon organizers, runners and fans, and to our Boston community at large. As Bostonians, and inspired by the values of mercy and justice central to our faith, the American-Muslim community stands ready to help. We have close to 40 ISBCC volunteers on site who are committed to assist in relief efforts and also donate blood. Should the City call upon us, we are also ready to transform the ISBCC into a disaster relief center. Additionally, we extend our spiritual counseling services to any of the victims and their family members. We hold to the highest standard the human safety and security of our City, its people and its guests. We encourage any Bostonian who sees any suspicious activity or package to report it to the number provided by the Boston Police Chief: 800-494-TIPS

See for instance: Muslim Leaders A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11 Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say Muslim Reactions to Sept 11 Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S. Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe' When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives Specific Muslim Scholars A Common Word Between Us and You, by 130 Islamic scholars Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam, by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden, by Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam, by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim Winter) Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism), by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents, by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden, by Russian Muslim leaders Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S., by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei Islam and the Question of Violence, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar Jihad and the Modern World, by Dr. Sherman Jackson Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University Muslim Attitudes about Violence, by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part I - Fatwas, by various scholars Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part IV A few Quotes, by various scholars On the Terrorist Attacks, by Imam Zaid Shakir Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden, by Tahir ul Qadri Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists, by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism, by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S., by Shaikh Abdulaziz Al-Ashaikh Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States, by Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic University Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden, by Spanish Muslim leaders Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition, by Khaled Abou El Fadl Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven, by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss Mosque, Seattle The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen The worst enemies of Islam are from within, by Hamza Yusuf Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam, by Shaykh Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law, by Imam Siraj Wahhaj What is jihad? What is terrorism?, by Statement by Muslim scholars Individual Ordinary Muslims Special links A Country United- Poem by a Muslim woman about September 11 Islam Denounces Terrorism- Site of Muslim scholar Harun Yahya Muslims Against Terrorism- An organization founded by Muslims who stand against the hijacking of Islam by extremists and terrorists Report: Muslim Celebrities Condemn Attacks- Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Muhammad Ali, Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets Muslim charities who solicited donations to help victims in New York City: Global Relief Foundation Islamic Relief Mercy USA And here are articles by other ordinary Muslims: A Curse Upon the Brigands Who Kill Children, by Aziz Poonawalla A Dastardly Act, by Ikram Seghal A Muslim Surgeon's Prayer for His Fellow Americans, by Aftab Ahmad Amid simmering religious tension, Muslims denounce killing of Christian family, by (Associated Press report) Area Muslims slam suicide bombing, by Washington Times report Bin Laden's Fatwa is a Call to Plunder Not Jihad, by Aziz H. Poonawalla Defaming, Defiling, and Falsifying Islam: A Condemnation of al-Qaeda, by Frank M. Afflitto, convert to Islam Does the Quran Sanction Violence?, by Mohamed Elmasry Hirabah versus Jihad, by Robert D. Crane, convert to Islam Horrified by What Happened in the U.S., by Ahmad Y. Majdoubeh Human Nature at Its Worst, by Amir Meshkin I Believe in Allah and America, by Arsalan Iftikhar I'm Not the Enemy, by Reshma Memon Yaqub Islam Demands a Muslim Response to 9/11 (PDF), by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad Islam condemns all acts of terrorism, by Daar-ul-Ehsaan Islam is Not the Source of Terrorism, by Harun Yahya Islam is Not to Blame, by Omar Sarwar Islam is a Religion of Peace, Not Terrorism, by Muhammad Ali Islam: A Home of Tolerance Not Fanaticism, by Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) Islamic Scholars Should Speak Up for the Truth about Islam and Jihad, by Laila Nasheeba-Or Jihad Means Waging Peace and Justice, by Mohamed Elmasry May God Touch All of Us with His Infinite Grace, by Susan Abulhawa Muslim scholars reach out to Pope, by BBC News Muslims Must Not Let Terrorism Become the Voice of Islam, by Blerime Topalli My Fatwa on the Fanatics, by Ziauddin Sardar Not In My Name: A Treatise Against Religious Intolerance, by Richard L. Dixon, convert to Islam Osama Bin Laden: An Enemy of Islam, by Muqtedar Khan Press Release, by Khalid Usman, Councillor, Ward 7, Markham, Ontario Salafi scholars condemn terrorism, by collected by Just your average Muslim Some Misappropriations of Quranic Verses, by David Dakake, Islamic Research Institute (PDF) Terror Is Not Islam, by Kari Ann Owen (convert to Islam) The Meaning of Jihad, by Hesham Hassaballa The Real Meaning of the Concept of Jihad, by Ahmed Motiar Twin Towers Viewed from a Western Minaret: Thoughts of a Convert to Islam, by Michael Wolfe Under Attack, by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad What Does the Quran's 'Verse of the Sword' Really Mean?, by Hesham A. Hassaballa When the innocent are murdered, we all go into the dark with them, by Ziauddin Sardar Who Hijacked Islam, by Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian dissident World's future hinges on peace between faiths, Islamic scholars tell Pope, by Riazat Butt and Martin Hodgson Messages on Muslims' Websites: Al-Islam, by scholars at a Shi'ite resource site Islam: The Modern Religion, by Fareena Alam Islamic Studies page, by Alan Godlas (convert to Islam) Kamilat, by Talibah Jilani Muslim Answers, by Abd ar-Rahman Robert Squires Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part III - Statements & Articles by Individuals, by various individuals See also: Muslim Imam Offers Words of Prayer at World Trade Center Memorial Ceremony Bonus: View This Is Islam: "Islam, it's all about peace, terrorism it doesn't teach". Ongoing: The Council on American-Islamic Relations In an effort to show that Muslim activism against terrorism didn't stop after 9/11, this section contains press releases and statements by the Council on American-Islamic Relations condemning terrorist attacks. This is a resource in development. Subscribe to CAIR's mailing list to keep up with their latest statements and releases. American Muslims Condemn Riyadh Bombings - May 23, 2003 CAIR Calls for Release of All Hostages in Iraq - Tuesday, September 21, 2004 CAIR Condemns 'Barbaric' London Terror Attacks - Thursday, July 07, 2005 CAIR Condemns Attack On Seattle Jewish Center - Saturday, July 29, 2006 CAIR Condemns Attack On U.S. Medical Personnel In Yemen - December 30, 2002 CAIR Condemns Attack on US Diplomatic Convoy in Gaza - October 15, 2003 CAIR Condemns Haifa Suicide Bombing - 10/04/2003 CAIR Condemns Hariri Assassination - Monday, February 14, 2005 CAIR Condemns Iraq Church Bombings - Sunday, August 01, 2004 CAIR Condemns Killing of British Hostage in Iraq - Friday, October 08, 2004 CAIR Condemns Murder of American in Saudi Arabia - Friday, June 18, 2004 CAIR Condemns Murder of Margaret Hassan - Wednesday, November 17, 2004 CAIR Condemns School Killings in Russia - Tuesday, September 07, 2004 CAIR Joins 'Call to Action' on Darfur Crisis - Tuesday, August 03, 2004 CAIR condemns Istanbul bombings - Thursday, November 20, 2003 CAIR condemns attacks on civilians - Thursday, March 28, 2002 CAIR condemns hostage-taking by Iraqi insurgents, calls for release of hostages - 4/9/2004 CAIR condemns killings in Iraq, Pakistan - Tuesday, March 02, 2004 CAIR condemns murder of American in Iraq - 5/11/2004 CAIR condemns mutilation of bodies in Iraq - Wednesday, March 31, 2004 CAIR statements on the events of September 11 - (various dates) CAIR welcomes capture of Saddam Hussein - Sunday, December 14, 2003 CAIR-CAN Condemns Anti-Semitic Graffiti - August 25, 2004 CAIR-CAN Condemns Vandalism of Jewish Homes in Toronto - Friday, March 19, 2004 CAIR-CAN condemns Daniel Pearl killing - Friday, February 22, 2002 CAIR-CAN condemns bomb attack on Passover celebration in Israel - Thursday, March 28, 2002 CAIR-CAN condemns firebomb attack of Jewish school - Tuesday, April 06, 2004 CAIR-CAN condemns gang-rape of woman in Pakistan by tribal court - Friday, July 05, 2002 CAIR-CAN condemns hate graffiti on Edmonton synagogue - Wednesday, December 28, 2005 CAIR-CAN condemns killing of innocent Christian worshippers in Pakistan - Tuesday, October 30, 2001 CAIR-CAN: There is no justification for attacks on innocent people - Thursday, November 14, 2002 CAIR-NJ Offers Condolences to Coptic Community - Monday, January 17, 2005 CAIR: American Muslims Condemn Sectarian Mosque Bombing - 07/05/2003 Canadian Muslim scholars reject Bin Laden's calls for jihad - Monday, October 15, 2001 Canadian Muslims Condemn Recent Khadr Comments That Excuse Terrorism - Friday, March 05, 2004 Canadian Muslims condemn 9/11 terrorist attacks - Tuesday, September 11, 2001 Canadian Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article - Monday, January 12, 2004 Canadian Muslims condemn church attack in Pakistan - Sunday, March 17, 2002 Canadian Muslims condemn vandalism of synagogues - Friday, April 12, 2002 Muslims Condemn Philippines Airport Bombing - Tuesday, March 04 2003 Muslims Offer Help for Victims of Terrorist Attacks - 9/11/01 Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article - Wednesday, January 07, 2004 Muslims condemn anti-Semitic article - 11/8/2002 Muslims to hold 9/11 vigil at U.S. Capitol - Thursday, August 28, 2003 Muslims urged to donate for D.C. sniper victims - Wednesday, October 16, 2002 U.S. Imams Say Iraq Hostage-Takers Violate Islamic Beliefs - Friday, October 29, 2004 U.S. Muslim Group Condemns bin Laden Videotape - 09/11/2003 U.S. Muslims Condemn Madrid Bombings - 03/11/2004 U.S. Muslims call for 9/11/02 "Day of Unity and Prayer" - Tuesday, July 23, 2002 US Muslims Condemn Terrorism in Ad Campaign - March 8, 2003 We repudiate terrorism - Ibrahim Hooper, July 11, 2007 Special: Muslims in the Military Are American Muslims patriotic? Do they serve their country, or support America's response to the terrorist attacks? Read these stories to find out more Islam Gains Place in U.S. Military As Ranks of Muslims Grow Islamic Scholars Say U.S. Muslim Soldiers Must Fight for Country Muslim soldier dies in Iraq Muslims In Military: Arab-American proudly serves U.S. Muslims in military say 'everybody belongs' Muslims in the U.S. Military are As Loyal As Any, Chaplain Says Ramadan a Sacred Time for U.S. Muslim Troops Soldier of Faith UK Muslims Must Obey UK Law, says Professor Muhammad Abdel Haleem Plus: American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans Also see My Condemnation of the September 11 Terrorist Attacks, Some Quranic Verses on Jihad, and What Islam Really Says about Killing the Innocent.

Actually, eveerytime that something happens and muslims are implicated, every major muslim org/mosque in the US and in the muslim world, publicly condems the perpetrators and their actions. Also, all the major islamic scholarly orgs, conferences, etc. have issued fatwas (religious legal verdicts) categorically denouncing terrorism and the targeting of civilians.

http://www.politickernj.com/64790/christie-address-gun-control-issues-friday LONG BRANCH – Gov. Chris Christie indicated today that he’s prepared to roll out his recommendations on gun control Friday. The governor declined to answer a question asked by a reporter Thursday during a Long Branch news conference about how he felt about the way federal lawmakers voted earlier this week on a gun control bill in Washington, D.C. Christie, before quickly moving on to the next question, said he would state his position Friday. The governor’s office recently indicated Christie would be ready to roll out his recommendations for guns, and what the governor has also described as “violence control,” in the coming days. The NJ SAFE Task Force recently unveiled its recommendations for the state.

related question: I know hollow points are legal to purchase, transport, and use at a range. Does anyone know of any case law or rules/laws regarding use in a home defense situation?

It also lets prosecutors add a separate charge to a firearms arrest. That said, I've seen people charged with possession of HPs where no gun was involved (one had a couple of rounds on the floorboard of his car during a traffic stop, another had one in his pocket when he was arrested on something else).

A buddy of mine stopped by Dick's in Paramus on Saturday, was told they're getting another shipment of ammo tomorrow morning.

#Solutions to a problem I wish I had.

srsly

That's why they assign you an SBI number, same as anyone who's been arrested and printed.

The no-fly list rule is by far the most dangerous. There is no oversight or accountability with regards to who gets put on that list, why and once you're on, you can't challenge it in court. Even if you're not the guy they meant to put on. This means that all the FBI needs to do is add your name and your 2A rights are gone for good. No appeals, no reconsideration and no ability to find out why you were put on. It's bad enough they can restrict travel this way, but to kill a Constitutional right with no due process? Hell no. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12284855/#.UWmVEbWG1KY http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/left-behind-by-no-fly-list/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/05/am-i-on-the-no-fly-list-0151-and-other-faqs-to-the-fbi/257316/ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

This product is currently out of stock.

Update: 2 cases of 9 left. hey also have 38 Special (130gr) Remington and American Eagle, 357 Remington, 45 American Eagle, some rifle and shotgun too. Limit is 3 boxes of handgun ammo total, whether it's 1 caliber, 2 or 3.

Just called. They said they have "plenty" of 9mm and .357 mag.

No prob. Next time you're in Woodland Park, stop by Giuseppe's and get a haircut from younger guy, Andrew. Maybe you can talk him into joining the range so I can hit him up for guest passes, haha.

sold him a magazine a couple weeks back. he was really patient while we tried to coordinate our schedules so we could meetup.

Started nics process on Thursday 3/28, got the approved call on Monday 4/8.

Pleasure to deal with.

Did a transfer with Rick. Good guy, really pleasant to deal with and great price. Thanks Rick.