ryan_j

Not only that, but I am betting a lot of gun owners are hunters who support gun control as long as it doesn't impact hunting. Yeah, those mall ninjas with their AR15s? Fugg them. As long as I get to keep my shotgun. See NJOA endorsing Sweeney for example. Or they could be like the guys I meet at the range who don't have a clue what's going on, despite being on the mailing list (the emails go promptly in the trash).

An easy way around this (I guess) is to take up part time residence in another state and make NJ your secondary residence. I wonder how that will work. Hmm. Anyway, do you honestly see any criminal following that law? Yes, I know it's about the children... but you think the criminal who left his piece with the serial number rubbed off at his baby mama's apartment for his kid to play with will obey this law?

The wheels are coming off may issue in some counties in CA already. This is probably what will happen in NJ if justifiable need is struck down. http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw Peruta v. County of San DiegoThe Orange County Sheriff’s Department will accept CCW applications which include, in the “Details of Reason for Applicant Desiring a CCW License” (on page 10 of 13 of the California Department of Justice Standard Initial and Renewal Application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon), that the CCW license is needed for self-defense or personal safety. Applications which include other reasons showing “good cause” for the CCW License as set forth in the Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218, License to Carry a Concealed Firearm, will also be accepted. If the Peruta v. County of San Diego panel decision is withdrawn by a decision to rehear the case en banc in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, or a stay is issued by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals or the United States Supreme Court, we may require applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Orange County Sheriff’s Department’s Policy 218. Please be aware the application process includes an interview, payment of fees, as well as state and local background checks. Successful completion of a firearms course of training is also required. There you have it. Orange County, CA is now shall issue.

And now we have a split. 7th and 9th ruled that 2A applies outside the home, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th have ruled that it does not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/02/19/for-chris-christie-a-smart-gun-problem/ So the Armatix IP1, a smart gun that requires you to wear a goofy watch, is now for sale in California. Weinberg now writes the AG to activate NJ's smart gun law, because this gun is for sale. Chances that the AG will do it? I don't know. But it's 2014, and if it's certified, you have until 2017 to get all the "dumb" guns you want.

Sweeney is a fudd.

Illinois has 90 days. I suspect they'll go right up to the deadline.

I agree with this. For me, without reciprocity I will look to get a permit in NJ, NYC and PA at a minimum. Maybe Maryland and California too. My Utah, Florida and Connecticut will cover me for other places that I need to go. But at some point it will get silly so it would be better to get reciprocity.

So is anyone really in disbelief that so few permits are issued? I am not. I have always maintained that NJ is a close to NO issue state. Only person I know who has one is Anthony from GFH and he said his permit is stamped "valid only during course of employment" which means it's a security guard permit (but it may not have any time and place restrictions.)

If I had to go to a chain for wings, I'd prefer Hooter's. We had one up here but they closed down. But the wings were gooooood.

The Hornady Critical duty is good. I have it in .45 but it is +p and it has quite a kick compared to regular charge.

It won't directly cause reciprocity to be the law of the land. There are a few ways this could go if we have a good outcome. The most likely outcome would be that SCT would rule the way the 9th circuit did, in that the 2A applies outside the home and states have to allow a means of carrying handguns as a fundamental right. I believe that justifiable need in NJ will either be struck down, or the superior court and local PD will have to accept "self defense" as justifiable need. This only requires the AG and NJOAL (office of administrative law) to codify it in the administrative code (NJAC) which is how the current standard of justifiable need became law, after Siccardi. Another way this could go is that states could decide that they could just allow open carry, with or without a permit. In that case I hope everyone is ready for massive open carry marches and open carry in the wawa because you neeyed to carry in the wawa. As far as reciprocity goes, that wouldn't happen with this lawsuit. However, jurisdictions like NYC would have to allow carry for residents at a bare minimum. There may be another lawsuit for non-resident permits. There was one in NY for part time residents and it was ruled favorably. Or Congress could pass a law if the Republicans regain control of the Senate (possible) and 2016 we get a Republican, Conservative President (probably not likely).

I've only seen one from a security guard.

And to that, I raise you a totally biased editorial from the Star Ledger. http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/hey_wyoming_butt_out_of_jerseys_gun_laws_editorial.html#incart_river

And not for nothing, they can then throw their hands in the air and point to Scalia and co and say, "see, the guys in the black robes did it" and worry about some other more important thing like raising taxes and appeasing organized labor.

I suspect this is what you're hoping for. But I doubt it will happen. There are pro gun people in the legislature and if Illinois and Chitcago can do it, we can. We will prevail.

Boy isn't that the truth. I work in the industry, and I have former colleagues who now work there. Suffice to say they have stories to tell.

The 30k from the GAO study seems to be about right for retired law enforcement.

I'm positive it isn't retired law enforcement. See this: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/20560-saf-v-nj-muller-et-al-v-maenza-et-al/page-22#entry671070 This is similar to the more up to date data they recently obtained. On page 7, point 15, Lt Genova says that it is strictly private citizens and not retired law enforcement. The number is between 500-800 per year issued. Renewals are in that statistic because technically there is no renewal in NJ. All are treated like first issue. They did not distinguish between private citizens and security guards, so in all likelihood this 1195 number does not include armed security guards.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't include retired cops. It may include security guards. NJSP supplied annual numbers in a court brief to the 3rd circuit court of appeals listing 500-800 permits being approved per year. They specifically stated that number doesn't include retired police. Those figures (not the same brief, but numbers subpoenaed from the NJSP FIU) were used to arrive at the 1195 number by adding together two years worth of data. Since permits are only valid for two years, that's how they came to that conclusion. I'm sure the number of retired cop permits is probably in the tens of thousands.

Yes, we applied for a rehearing and it was denied. I believe the vote was 8-4 or something like that.

Yes, we applied for a rehearing and it was denied. I believe the vote was 8-4 or something like that.

You mean after a court order? You really have no idea how this works I guess. If they flat out refuse, the courts don't take it too kindly at all. They'll assign monitors and basically people to look over NJ's shoulder to make sure they are complying. Trust me, disobeying a court order will not be worth it for them.

MY prediction? First of all, it's about as worthless as it gets. What I wrote is what I've been told by attorneys and what I've gathered from people like Eugene Volokh. But I really can't say. I would say it's almost a certainty that they'd appeal for a rehearing en banc. What happens after that though, is anyone's guess. My guess (and it's just a guess!) is that they'll reverse this decision but they will twist it into a knotted pretzel to get the desired outcome.

vbulletin search sucks!