Mr.Stu

Stop trying to use logic in a political situation. It just does not work.

You don't have to guess at all. Just read the statutes. It's there in black and white.

The statutes say possession of a handgun without first obtaining a permit to carry a handgun is a crime. Possession of a rifle or shotgun with first obtaining an FPIC is a crime. Possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun is a crime. Note that for the last one there is no permit mentioned. You cannot possess a loaded long gun, full stop.

Yes, of course.

I filled mine out on my PC and printed it. It was necessary as my handwriting is atrocious. Signatures need to be wet ink on all 3 copies.

From the bill: The applicant shall not be required to demonstrate completion of a course of instruction in order to obtain any subsequent permit to purchase a handgun, to replace an existing firearms purchaser identification card, or to renew a firearms purchaser identification card. Also from the bill: A person who obtained a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card prior to the effective date of P.L. , c. (C. ) (pending before the Legislature as this bill) shall not be required to complete a course of instruction pursuant to this subsection.

You know what, you could be right. I can't find it anywhere either.

When I have changed addresses before, the check box for "Duplicate" was checked, not "Initial".

You need to qualify with the gun you intend to carry every 6 months.

Not true. One of my references witnessed mine and NJSP accepted it.

The statutes say to submit it to the chief of police, so ask to see him and hand it to him. 2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns. c. Investigation and approval. Each application shall in the first instance be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or to the superintendent, (1) if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company, or (2) if there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides, or (3) if the applicant does not reside in this State. The chief police officer, or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall cause the fingerprints of the applicant to be taken and compared with any and all records maintained by the municipality, the county in which it is located, the State Bureau of Identification and the Federal Bureau of Identification. He shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry.

I don't agree with mandated training, not because training is bad, but because the government controlling anything always makes it worse. I did do a 2 day carbine class last weekend. We were on the range 8-5 both days in the sun in WV. It made for long days, but not something I'd avoid in future.

Perhaps we're not a million miles apart on this. I see it as a matter of personal responsibility. The qualification courses of fire are a pretty low bar when it comes to measuring shooting ability. I think it is frightening how low that bar is, and for people to be worried about passing that very low measure is something that concerns me. I'm not talking about government mandates. I'm talking about personal responsibility. Similarly, when someone reaches old age and their physical and mental abilities decline, I believe they should voluntarily hang up their car keys rather than let their pride get in the way and continue to drive when they are unable to safely control a vehicle. I know a number of LEO instructors and they are horrified at the standard demonstrated by too many cops. I have had cops show up to my matches and they clearly didn't pass their quals on the first try. Many of them are fine, but there are some that are a cause for concern. When I carry a gun in public, I'm not just concerned with an attacker. I am also determined not to endanger any other innocent people that are in the area. To be confident in that, I need to know that I can hit what I want to hit, and not let errant rounds fly into random targets. You have mentioned not getting into a firefight. Surely, you understand that a nut job shooting in an urban environment could easily be more than 15 yards away. Do you think you are safe from them at that distance? Maybe their marksmanship isn't great, but an unaimed round does just as much damage as an aimed one if it hits you.

I don't know why you think I'm talking about government requirements. I'm talking about a situation where you find yourself needing to use a handgun to defend yourself or someone you love. If that's not a valid scenario, why carry at all? If you are not serious about being able to effectively use the tool you want to carry, why do you want it? Luck is not a strategy.

I said nothing about the constitution. If someone is trying to cause you serious harm or death, you need to stop them as soon as possible. That means rounds on target, on demand, immediately. If you can't do that when the paper target isn't causing you any harm, you can't believe you can do it in an actual fight, surely?

The CoF for qualifying is not specified anywhere. It appears to be up to the instructor running the qual to decide what he/she wants in order to be satisfied that you are competent and safe. Many people are leaning towards the HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC as there is little scope for the authorities to argue with the validity as that is what RPOs qualify doing.

You really think me pointing out where the gloom mongering is incorrect it giving people ideas? I am only refuting what has already been complained about. I qualified with Bob Bajor at Phillipsburg because that's my home range. He is listed on the RPO list on the NJSP web site: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/shooting-ranges.shtml

Learning to use a handgun well enough to defend yourself with any confidence is a progression. If you just get a gun and the next day face a bad guy, you're relying pretty much purely on luck. Does it work sometimes? Sure, but it is nothing more than luck. There are quite a few things to try to think about handling a firearm for the first time. I long ago stopped trying to count the number of new shooters I had to stop from putting their finger inside the trigger guard as they picked up the gun. Muzzle awareness is not a natural born instinct either. Then add in learning how to carry out the fundamentals and most people are task saturated the first few times out. If you mix in IDPA scenarios and/or self defense techniques at that stage you are doing the new shooter a disservice. They will quickly be overwhelmed and their performance will suck. For first time shooters (or any new complex thing) break it down to digestible chunks. When you first learned to drive, were you in an empty parking lot, or on the highway with a dozen cars and trucks flying by? The novice shooter needs to learn how carry out the fundamentals with as few distractions as possible until they get the concepts and can execute them. Adding in multiple targets, movement, holsters, reloads, etc. is way too much and makes the environment ripe for an accident. Also, a novice cannot sustain the concentration necessary for more than 60-90 minutes. A day on the range is way too much in one go. I strongly suggest parking this idea until you have been able to help them learn the fundamentals and they have become familiar enough to run the gun in their subconscious - like by now you just think "slow down" and your foot works the brake pedal all by itself.

I'm not sure, but I think it is an internal processing/receipt number for Identogo. ETA: Don't be too hard on NJSP. The ruling is only a week old, the AG directive less than that. These guys work shifts and have families they take on vacation. They will not all be instantly knowledgeable on every aspect of the laws, especially recently changed ones.

I dropped off my packet at NJSP Washington Station this afternoon. The Sgt. at the front desk looked at everything in it and was clearly referring to a checklist as he did so. He said it looked complete and would pass it to their firearms person. He even volunteered her email address in case I had any questions to ask her. This is what I did: 3 x application form (SP642 6/28/2022) filled in on my PC and printed. My references signed each copy. I signed each copy in front on a notary at the UPS store he and notarized them. 1 x consent for mental health records search (SP066 7/23/2019) Which I signed and one of my references witnessed. The UPS store guy also did my photos. He knew what it was for as soon as I said I needed 4 pictures. He said he had done several already this week, but I was the first person to ask for 1.5"x1.5" rather than 2"x2". He made a mental note to help future customers. (I also was asked questions by the other staff at the store about how to get a gun and a permit - one was a young expecting mother) I got a money order for $50 from the post office and made it out to "Treasurer, State of New Jersey" - I have been advised by the NJSP trooper that handled my (failed) app in 2017 that the wording on the MO has to be exactly that. Anything else has been bounced before I did quals with a certified instructor that has been doing RPO quals for years. He is recognized by NJSP as being certified for that. He signed off that I did the HQC1 and HNCQ. He did not put his NRA certification number on the form so I got it from him and added it myself. I provided a photocopy of my drivers license and my certificate of naturalization. I provided a photocopy of the PtPP that was executed when I acquired each handgun I qualified with. I went to Identogo in Easton, PA this morning as there were no appointments available on the web site in NJ at all. I had to pay extra for out of state, but I was not prepared to wait. I booked the appt on Tuesday and went today (Thursday). I included the receipt in my packet. Before I handed it all in, I made sure I had a copy of everything for my records. Now the wait begins.

Stop with the Chicken Little stuff. PCH lasts 2 years. You do not need to take a class every time you apply - it's a one time cost if you can't pass quals on your own. You need to requalify every 6 months so 4 times in 2 years. I did a qual 2 weeks ago that cost me $65 plus 50 rounds. It's nowhere near $250 + 400 rounds. Fingerprinting every renewal is dumb, but yeah $100 each time If you can't pass quals on the first try, walking onto the range cold (i.e. no warm up/practice shots) you are not ready for an armed encounter - get more training and practice.

It would be really difficult to provide useful instruction for that breadth of knowldege/skill/ability. What does each person hope to get from such a class?

10 years now so they can get it passed. They'll whittle it down in the future.