My wife decided she likes sporting clays so I’d like to bring her along to Clinton WMA, etc….aka I need to buy another gun  

 

I have a M3000 Sporting and an 870 and she says they’re both too heavy and have too much recoil 

 

I understand a well fitted gun helps a lot but it doesn’t make it any lighter. So what is a shooter giving up by going to a “ladies model” or a 20ga? I would have thought a smaller shell/fewer pellets will make things harder, wouldn’t it? And a lighter gun will just pass more recoil to the shooter?

 

Naturally cost will always be a concern but I’d be curious what other folks have done with their diminutive shooter companions. 

I have a Tristar Viper G2 Youth convertible model 20ga.  Semi auto (gas powered) will be softer shooting.  She's more than welcome to try it at Clinton.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021231291?pid=760305

I (she) might take you up on that, thanks. Looks like 1.2# lighter than the M3000 which doesn’t seem like much but that’s 16% I guess. 

I have a Browning Citori 20ga that might be a good fit for her. 
 

When is the next shoot at Clinton? I’ll bring it, and she’s welcome to shoot it. 
 

Folks are great about loaners (not surprising, really…you’re a all good people) but I’m also trying to find out what you’re giving up with the lighter gun and lighter load. I mean…if it wasn’t a compromise everyone would shoot a light 20ga, wouldn’t they?

Hi! I'm a girl! 

I have an 870 Wingmaster I used to use to shoot clays. It was a bit heavy to swing all day, so I switched out the wood furniture for some synthetic. It made it a little easier to point and swing for a full day of clays but I soon bought a Beretta A400 Lite. It's light, and easy to carry and the Kickoff system helps mitigate recoil. It's just over 6 1/2 lbs. She's more than welcome to try mine. 

For new shooters in general, I'd suggest trying to find a 12ga that fits as you do make hitting clays more difficult when you change gauges. 

A lot of the newer semi autos have some sort of recoil system which might take just enough off of the kick to be manageable for her. 

Let me know when we're all meeting up at Clinton and I'll bring mine!

 

Best, 

Rhi

49 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Folks are great about loaners (not surprising, really…you’re a all good people) but I’m also trying to find out what you’re giving up with the lighter gun and lighter load. I mean…if it wasn’t a compromise everyone would shoot a light 20ga, wouldn’t they?

I just looked at my target loads….

12ga, #8 shot load has 1oz of shot. That is approximately 392 pellets. 
 

20ga, #8 shot load has 7/8oz of shot. Approximately 336 pellets. 
 

About 56 pellets more in the 1oz load. 

12 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

About 56 pellets more in the 1oz load. 

So 16% more pellets to go from 7/8 oz to 1oz. That seems considerable.

 

i saw anywhere from 16 to 31 ft-lb of energy from a 20ga compared to 17 to 54 ft-lb for 12ga.  So it seems the loading would make more of a difference than the bore/chamber

Pretty much all of the women at my trap club are shooting ported single and over/under 12GA.  Usually Browning or Beretta.  A light gun is great for minimizing fatigue, but it comes at the cost of felt recoil.

The barrel on the 870, I'm guessing, is the standard 28" parked thick wall.  You can shave off some weight by swapping out to a lighter profile barrel and a synthetic furniture set.

The fit is very important to the shooter's ability to hit stuff, but also influences felt recoil.

1 hour ago, Shocker said:

So it seems the loading would make more of a difference than the bore/chamber

the load makes all the  difference in recoil.  It determines how much energy is needed to push the shot at a certain velocity.

A 3", 1 7/8 oz, #6 ,12GA 1200 fps turkey load kicks a helluva lot more than a 2 3/4" 1oz 1100 fps trap load. But, a speedy 1300 fps 2 3/4, 1oz, #7.5 handicap trap load will kick about the same as the turkey load

After trying the 20 gauge route and her getting bashed around,  I bought her a Franchi Instinct Catalyst in 12 gauge.  It is specifically made for women,  and using the Winchester Reduced recoil 26g loads she will now shoot 3 boxes.  Start her off with these loads and then when she gets comfortable with the gun you can increase the load. 

6 hours ago, Shocker said:

 a M3000 Sporting and an 870 and she says they’re both too heavy and have too much recoil 

She's right.  I sold my 870 soon after I bought a Remington LT 1100  20 ga.

I have no problem busting clays with the slightly smaller load.

 

@Shocker @Ms. 12 Gauge has the personal experience to back up what she types!

"Naturally cost will always be a concern but I’d be curious what other folks have done with their diminutive shooter companions."  Begs the question just how "small" is she?  With shotgun "fit" having a LOT to do with "LOP" (Length of Pull--the distance from the butt to the trigger guard), folks with shorter arms often find a Youth Model easier to swing since they can reach the fore end w/o stretching.  Add gas operation or inertia-dampening recoil systems, and a light 12 gauge with "lighter" factory loadings (1145 fps) ---like Remington Gun Club and the like--- will recoil less.

I used to shoot Trap with a 12 year old using his 12 ga. Youth Model gas operated semi.  In less than a year he could easily break 20+ birds per round.  You get your wife a gun that fits HER and some instruction, and she'll be kickin' yer butt in no time  

Searching for lower recoiling trap & skeet loads requires a small "education":

Knowing how to read Dram Equivalent's for one.  Scattergunnin' loads are still referred to in BLACK POWDER "Dram Equivalent" and the lower the number, the slower the pellets move out the barrel.  2 3/4 Dram Equivalent is common in low-brass 12 ga. target loads, and 2 1/2 Dram Equivalent is common in 20 ga. low-brass target loads.  The faster loadings are "Field Loads" designed for hunting, and are often 1250 - 1400 fps and have higher Dram Equivalents.  A Dram is a unit of measure that was used back in the day of black powder shells and Damascus Twist barrels.  Hunting loads for pheasant (as an example) can come in both 2 3/4" and 3" magnum shells.  They're all "High Brass", which means the end of the shell where the headstamp is has extended brass to absorb the higher pressure (higher Dram) loading.  These will recoil MORE, and are sometimes packaged as "Handicapped" loads in 7 1/2 and 8 shot sizes.  So be careful not to buy those, as they're intended to shoot Trap from the 25 yard line (9 yards further back from the Trap House than the standard 16 yard line).

NUMBER OF PELLETS:

In the "race" to gain an edge, target loads with 1 1/8th oz. of birdshot hit the scene decades ago.  They have more pellets than the 1 oz. loadings, and will recoil S L I G H T L Y harder than the 1 oz. loads as the lighter loads need a little less powder to get their shot column out the tube at the same speed (1145 fps light target loading for instance).  It's simple physics.  Every action has an EQUAL & OPPOSITE reaction.  The reaction is felt recoil, which is mitigated by weight of gun, gun action, proper fit on the shoulder, etc.

I have female friends that can outshoot me.  They find it easy to break 100 straight clays.  Their guns FIT them  

My Daughter in-law Amy hadn't shot clays in about 2-3 years.  Father's Day I took the family shooting at Old Bridge R&P.  She picked-up the gun she was taught on---my Beretta Youth Model 20 ga. gas gun---and after the first two birds she broke every bird thrown for her---like a dozen in a row!  Then she let her husband (my son) take his turn & miss a few!  That is until he compensated for poor "gun fit".

Hope I've been some help!

Rosey

 

 

 

On 7/19/2021 at 10:21 AM, Smokin .50 said:

"Naturally cost will always be a concern but I’d be curious what other folks have done with their diminutive shooter companions."  Begs the question just how "small" is she? 

5’4”. Not a circus sideshow but still significantly smaller than me. 

I mean.... I'm 5'4"

1 hour ago, Shocker said:

5’4”. Not a circus sideshow but still significantly smaller than me. 

I took a female friend pheasant hunting.  Let her use that same Beretta Youth Model my DIL loves.  She's 4' 11" and had ZERO problems.

You did crack me up a little with "Circus Sideshow", lol!

I'm only 5' 6" and I have to watch LOP myself, especially for an all-season scattergun.  All those extra layers for a February pheasant hunt or a cool April morning Sporting Clays can extend the LOP even further, often past the point of comfort.  Add a "sticky" neoprene butt pad and it spells trouble with bad mounts on the shoulder.  If she's not comfortable, she won't want to shoot too many shells.  Make mama happy so everybody is happy  

Go to a FFL that has some used inventory.  A gun that fits her and has a small scratch on it is much better than the new pretty one that doesn't FIT  

Take care!

~R