I remember reading somewhere that a loaded magazine is the same as a loaded gun in NJ. I will try to find it again. I agree with the "why chance it" attitude. You have to remember that NJ gun laws are written such that if there is any ambiguity in the law (which there intentionally is), you are guilty until proven innocent. The attitude of the corrupt lawmakers in the wonderful state is to let you (the little law abiding citizen) fight in court for your rights. It's the NJ arrogant form of intimidation.

 

Well the good news is you succeeded in being one!

 

Don't refuse to believe, when it comes to this sheet I am completely helpless!

 

Here is another excerp from Title 13 - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/fi ... 13ch54.pdf

 

"Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The

term includes, but is not limited to, all:

1. Firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them

immediately operable;

2. Components which can be readily assembled into a weapon;

 

A loaded magazine could definitely be classified as either one of these conditions or both.

nevermind :roll:

Here is another excerp from Title 13 - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/fi ... 13ch54.pdf

 

"Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The

term includes, but is not limited to, all:

1. Firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them

immediately operable;

2. Components which can be readily assembled into a weapon;

 

A loaded magazine could definitely be classified as either one of these conditions or both.

 

And how does this relate to the transporting of ammunition inside magazines inside sealed containers?

 

Where is the statute that says *all* "weapons", per the above definition, can not be transported? I'm not aware of one.

 

There are statutes on transportation for specific sub-classes of "weapons" called firearms and ammunition. I believe we've covered those earlier.

 

Is a brick a "weapon"? (capable of lethal use or inflicting serious bodily injury)? If so, I saw a flatbed truck carrying a large load of weapons yesterday, immediately capable of inflicting serious bodily injury in the hands of any person, not in a sealed container and accessible to the public.

And how does this relate to the transporting of ammunition inside magazines inside sealed containers?

 

Where is the statute that says *all* "weapons", per the above definition, can not be transported? I'm not aware of one.

 

There are statutes on transportation for specific sub-classes of "weapons" called firearms and ammunition. I believe we've covered those earlier.

 

Is a brick a "weapon"? (capable of lethal use or inflicting serious bodily injury)? If so, I saw a flatbed truck carrying a large load of weapons yesterday, immediately capable of inflicting serious bodily injury in the hands of any person, not in a sealed container and accessible to the public.

 

Hey Dirty - I'm not trying to argue with anyone just provide information so people can make an informed decision. You want to carry a loaded magazine... by all means... go for it. But what I am saying is that if you live in the state of NJ, then you know that the laws relating to firearms and weapons are contradictory, and written so as to be ambiguous. As I offered above, the cops don't care. Their attitude is to cover their own ass, even if that means arresting you and confiscating your (whatever), and leaving YOU to argue about it in court instead of on a message board. That's the problem.

 

Just pull up to the next cop you see and ask him the question and see what he says. Or ask any gun shop owner.

Just pull up to the next cop you see and ask him the question and see what he says.

 

There are few (very few) LEOs who know the ACTUAL law as it pertains to firearms in NJ. Part of the problem is the confusing nature of the laws - which as some have said, seems to be intentional.

 

I would really really like to see a simplification of the law, AND a unflinchingly harsh enforcement of firearms laws on the common criminal, the 7-11/Wawa robber, the carjacker, the gang banger, the bank robber, etc. There are plenty of laws already, there's just not enough enforcement.

Hey Dirty - I'm not trying to argue with anyone just provide information so people can make an informed decision.

 

I understand the sentiment, but the information you're providing is confusing the issue. The question is not what is defined as a weapon, but how ammunition can be legally transported

 

You want to carry a loaded magazine... by all means... go for it.

 

I don't transport loaded magazines to the range in my ammo container simply because I want to - I do it because I also believe it is *legal*. I'll continue to believe that until I'm shown written law that says otherwise.

 

But what I am saying is that if you live in the state of NJ, then you know that the laws relating to firearms and weapons are contradictory, and written so as to be ambiguous.

 

Some of them are so poorly written as to be contradictory and confusing, yes (like what is a legal semi-auto shotgun...).

 

As I offered above, the cops don't care. Their attitude is to cover their own a**, even if that means arresting you and confiscating your (whatever), and leaving YOU to argue about it in court instead of on a message board. That's the problem.

 

Some police officers are better informed/more scrupulous than others, but your point is valid: because something is legal doesn't mean you won't have to pay for a lawyer and go to court in order to have a judge rule that it is so.

 

Just pull up to the next cop you see and ask him the question and see what he says. Or ask any gun shop owner.

 

Yep, misinformation abounds, which is why I think its helpful to get clear answers to questions whenever possible.

I understand your position Dirty but as you know, many laws are written to be interpretative. In NJ it's confiscate first, interpret in court later. It's a risk at best. It's only my personal opinion but why take the chance at loosing everything.

magazines are not firearms. they are thin metal boxes with holes on the top. in the eyes of the law, IMHO, storing ammo in a mag is no different then storing ammo in a ziplock bag or a cardboard box. all are devices which used i conjunction with your hands assist in the feeding of ammunition into a firearm.

 

i guess if you guys really want to be sure you dont get arrested on the way to the range, you better handcuff yourself behind your back before you leave, so the police dont see your usable hands as constructive possession. none of those devices, (magazines, bags, ammo boxes) assist in the loading of a firearm without your hands, so eliminating the use of those hands is the only super safe way to travel with ammunition and firearms.

 

and btw, wtf are you asking the state police for? might as well call mistress Anne and have her issue a new AG guideline that can be used to arrest and charge you in this fucked up state where legislation doesnt matter when it comes to statutory laws. The AG office and the state police are NOT on our side when it comes to gun issues. dont go asking them for help, it will only make it worse.

 

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I posed this question to Evan Nappen years ago. His response was it's NOT against the law. However he would advise against it.

 

Per his response I only load my mags when I get to the range.

How about loaded stripper clips???

How about loaded stripper clips???

 

Same difference. No law stopping you.

I remember reading somewhere that a loaded magazine is the same as a loaded gun in NJ.

 

A loaded magazine or clip is not considered a weapon in NJ. It never was and trying to fit that description into the above stated NJ statute doesn't work. No cases have every been initiated based solely on a loaded magazine.

 

Possibly is one were to hit someone over the head with a loaded magazine the courts would consider it a weapon. Beyond that simply having one loaded short of some other aspect, transporting them IN A PROPER MANNER is permitted.

 

I personally rarely do transport them loaded unless I know time will be a factor upon arrival as usually is the case in a qualification session. Otherwise I transport them unloaded as it has been my routine for years.

I think I will write to the state firearms division and request a answer on this.

Either way I can care less, I just need to know now for sure.

 

Don't bother, I'll make the call. I got a 'in'. Have an answer by tomorrow.

 

ETA. Call made. Offical answer within the hour.

 

That was funny as hell!

 

Well the good news is you succeeded in being one!

 

Don't refuse to believe, when it comes to this sheet I am completely helpless!

 

 

Funnier still!

 

Tiny - I'm not laughing at you at all. I'm happy this was clarified because I will now not bother to unload my mags that I keep ready for home use if necessary before I go to the range and cycle through my mags and self defense loads.

I'm sure NJpilot is happy to hear this info as we just had a conversation about this the other day.

magazines are not firearms. they are thin metal boxes with holes on the top

 

Could not have said it better.

 

I will now not bother to unload my mags that I keep ready for home use if necessary before I go to the range

Do you always use your home defense ammo at the range? Otherwise, what is the point?

 

I will now not bother to unload my mags that I keep ready for home use if necessary before I go to the range

Do you always use your home defense ammo at the range? Otherwise, what is the point?

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Every so often, I like to run a few mags of my self defense ammo through my home defense handgun just to make sure all is well. I Put some fresh rounds in when I get home and if there is any spring tension loss in my mag springs or another issue with my weapon system, I catch it before it's too late. I haven't had an issue in years but I thought it was good advice when it was given to me, so I continue to follow it.

 

I used to unload the mags and then reload them at the range. Now that I know this, I will just take them to the range.

empty gun in case back seat and magazine (ammo) in the trunk......safe bet

Magazines are not firearms. That's like complaining about having a box of ammo in the trunk with the gun.

With a little luck, this topic could actually go into next year.

 

Maybe this could push it over......

 

 

"A friend's cousin's uncle heard from a guy who read it on the internet that carrying magazines in a car in NJ that had the springs and follows installed is illegal."

 

OK, that should be good until June 2010.... :snooty:

With a little luck, this topic could actually go into next year.

 

Maybe this could push it over......

 

 

"A friend's cousin's uncle heard from a guy who read it on the internet that carrying magazines in a car in NJ that had the springs and follows installed is illegal."

 

OK, that should be good until June 2010.... :snooty:

 

you forgot "cuz hes a cop"

Nappen advises to carry the magazine unloaded. He also says it only takes a minute to load the magazine at the range.

 

I would follow his advise rather then spend $5000 trying to get myself out of the hot seat in a superior court room.

Nappen advises to carry the magazine unloaded. He also says it only takes a minute to load the magazine at the range.

 

I would follow his advise rather then spend $5000 trying to get myself out of the hot seat in a superior court room.

 

Be careful.....People have been flamed terribly for similar logical thinking with gray areas in the NJ statute with regard to being a guinea pig for the NJ legal system.

I would lend you my flame suit but it is burnt to a crisp!