Im seriously considering taking a break from all the forums. I love forums. I have learned a ton from interactions on the forums. But it just seems as of late there is an entire influx into the forums of new shooters with tude! I grow weary of those that in 1 month went from their bipod mounted backwards to internet expert. This new crowd just seems to miss the entire, learn from those that know piece of the puzzle and will argue to infinity because of all their real world XBox experience! Its easy to ignore. Its not easy to ignore when its a flood! Understand I make no claim to be anything but a forever student of shooting. But I have been at it a looooong time and have been fortunate enought to be exposed to a lot of top shelf guys that didnt mind passing along info to me. When I learn, I keep my mouth shut and my ears open. When I have a nugget of information that has worked well for me and someone asks, I freely pass it along. If I dont know or I'm not very certain of the topic, ISTFU. It almost seems its a self esteem issue for some. They want to be known as the tactical guru so much so that they try and become instant expert. I cant believe some of the advice I see fly from these types. Its just crazy! In the end it really hurts the forums I have seen a number of forums shed the true experts willing to help because of the keyboard commando's. This is nothing new. What is a bit different now though is the new level of stupidity I see in the arguments. No logic to be found anywhere. An expert states wisdom and a group of F-Tards argue nonsense based on nonsense. None will admit actually seeing they were wrong... they just argue until they win which in actuality is a loss becaue the guy that really knew just said f-it I get better things to do.....

 

Wheres my shut up and shoot T-Shirt?

 

rant over, now back to your daily scheduled programming.....

I don't see you a lot in this section of the forum, I guess your talking about firearm specifics. Anyhow your free to your opinion and if your opinion is not excepted by others all is ok. You may be very knowledgeable on certain aspects, I see your responses are mostly in the Rifle section of the forum.. So I'd assume you are either there to learn or teach. A forum being a general place which is good to vent, share opinions, spread the word to like minded individuals, and even (argue your point of view) though not to cross the line. I can understand that you may have had your in-differences with many on here, but we all have. Does not mean you can't "agree to disagree" in a respectable manner.

I don't understand? We need more shooters and sportsman in New Jersey yet you think they should listen to everything you say because you've been shooting for a lot longer than them. Shane, you gotta understand today's youth. Computers, video games, magazines, FORUMS, and the like have changed the game completely. 15 years ago you didn't have this knowledge at your fingertips.

Let me clarify, I did not mean this forum specifically, I meant forums in general. I also did not mean me specifically. I am really talking about the top shelf guys that lead the way in training or manufacturing or have simply been there done that with real world operational experience. I merely talked about myself to make the point that I at least know the difference between those that know and I would trust their teachings and the "other" kind.... and maybe to make the point of being a student.

We are all "students". Even the best shooters and instructors are always learning.

Let me clarify, I did not mean this forum specifically, I meant forums in general. I also did not mean me specifically. I am really talking about the top shelf guys that lead the way in training or manufacturing or have simply been there done that with real world operational experience. I merely talked about myself to make the point that I at least know the difference between those that know and I would trust their teachings and the "other" kind.... and maybe to make the point of being a student.

 

 

It's a forum disease. If you think it's bad here, check out some of the Jeep forums...

The worse are the Glock and XD ones.

The worse are the Glock and XD ones.

 

Been there, done that. The car forums are worse...

Ray Ray I understand what you are saying but.... pedantery knowledge is one thing. Real world is another. Ill give you an example watered WAAAY down for brevity. Guy a has forged by his own hand metal for many years. Guy b, MIT grad engineering degree in hand. This part needs to be made this way for this project. Guy a, no it will break. Guy b my books say it wont. OK we do it both ways and see. When guy b's part breaks he asks guy a how he knew. Experience from doing that you can only gain from doing!!! It cant be found in the book! This is a true story.

 

Length of time shooting is iirelavent. Length of time shooting correctly is relevant. I do not care who listens to me. I offer my advice freely as a mutual student. Take it or leave it. But all the wanna be's are silencing the efforts of those that know with their incessant arguing and poor manners.

 

An example of what Im talking about.

 

A budding machinist student fresh out of high school in trade school taking a world renowned rifle builder to task because his book at school said something different than what the builder was doing.

 

A new shooter taking to task a seniour trainer at Rifles only about what a waste top shelf equipment is.

 

A new shooter (I shit you not) quoting his XBox tactical experience as it relates to real world and why his way is better. (Arguing with what I happen to know was a real deal D-Boy)

 

A new shooter quoting his paintball experience as it relates to real world.

 

Again, nothing new but its becoming a flood instead of the few annoying instances.

 

Perhaps its the way its gone about. They do not approach it from, I learned this, could you explain that. Its a rude argument right out of the gate! This is what I dont understand! Followed by a chime in from the same kind.

Sigh.... Im going to get up from the PC and go give the Busa a workout! Its been a long week!

Absolutely agree.

 

A lot of the forums, particularly national forums have this issue. What keeps it down here to a min is the fact that we are a group of local guys, who keep each other honest. Only for so long can you bench race behind a keyboard until you meet that person at a range.

 

On the flip side, I will also say that some of these new people, because when they get dedicated, they spend hours upon hours researching topics, are up there, spending sometimes 5 hours a day on a forum just trying to learn.

 

This is whats great about forums, you have all this information, that is accessible with the search button. No longer do you have to go and meet the person at a range, or visit 20 gun shops and a book in order to learn what makes that rifle as it is.

 

The only thing anyone can do is just to ignore the stupid comments, and it weeds itself out. But let us not forget, with shooting sports, we need those newbies because they are the ones that give everyone else the right to shoot.

Ray Ray I understand what you are saying but.... pedantery knowledge is one thing. Real world is another. Ill give you an example watered WAAAY down for brevity. Guy a has forged by his own hand metal for many years. Guy b, MIT grad engineering degree in hand. This part needs to be made this way for this project. Guy a, no it will break. Guy b my books say it wont. OK we do it both ways and see. When guy b's part breaks he asks guy a how he knew. Experience from doing that you can only gain from doing!!! It cant be found in the book! This is a true story.

 

Length of time shooting is iirelavent. Length of time shooting correctly is relevant. I do not care who listens to me. I offer my advice freely as a mutual student. Take it or leave it. But all the wanna be's are silencing the efforts of those that know with their incessant arguing and poor manners.

 

An example of what Im talking about.

 

A budding machinist student fresh out of high school in trade school taking a world renowned rifle builder to task because his book at school said something different than what the builder was doing.

 

A new shooter taking to task a seniour trainer at Rifles only about what a waste top shelf equipment is.

 

A new shooter (I **** you not) quoting his XBox tactical experience as it relates to real world and why his way is better. (Arguing with what I happen to know was a real deal D-Boy)

 

A new shooter quoting his paintball experience as it relates to real world.

 

Again, nothing new but its becoming a flood instead of the few annoying instances.

 

Perhaps its the way its gone about. They do not approach it from, I learned this, could you explain that. Its a rude argument right out of the gate! This is what I dont understand! Followed by a chime in from the same kind.

 

or some of the bike forums....

 

I was(am) a moderator on SVRider.com - dedicated to the Suzuki SV650.... had to get away from there.... way too many smartass kids and adults...

 

There are times I do take a break from internet forums ..... you have to. Way to many people who think they know it all, and others that have what I call "internet muscles" .... meaning they have no problem telling you off online, but if you get to meet them in person, they are a totally different person....

 

As this forum grows.... We will get these people here....

Shane...

 

I know what you speak of. I have been a dedicated THR follower for about 10 years now. I never really caught onto other sites (glocktalk, sigforum, firingline etc etc )There was a point about 3 years ago when it seemed that ever thread was an argument, every post was a fanboy pissing match, most posters seemed to be winging the internet "my schwanz is bigger then yours" attitudes. One day, after posting some for sale items and having my descriptions and prices subjected to ridicule, commentary and other negative comments, I blew a gasket. I wrote a open letter to all members of the forum and blasted the collective rudeness, attitudes and internet arrogance. I did no good, but I felt better. I gave the place a rest for awhile and then creeped back in, sat back and watched. I still dont participate much in some discussions, others I jump into and keep my voice down. I did just get my first infraction... let another user have it for his self proclaimed SIG expertise and called him a tool. Take some time off... take that time and work on your shooting or firearms. Read some more books. I know we will welcome you back here with open arms.

 

And you are right about video games being the basis for seemingly most peoples experiences with certain firearms. If I based my opinions on video games I would never covet a FAL, which all gamer wannabes knows sucks ass.

Just be thankful this is not a Honda civic typer r jspec mod 64 forum, yo. We would have all these threads about we raced a toyota camary and totally smoked it., even though they werent racing.

Just be thankful this is not a Honda civic typer r jspec mod 64 forum, yo. We would have all these threads about we raced a toyota camary and totally smoked it., even though they werent racing.

 

I've learned to stick to local forums, like Maks pointed out, because they do tend to be more self-policed. My experiences with forums have ranged from pretty bad to pretty decent-- and its always the local forums that tend to leave out the BS.

 

As for what you're saying, Shane, I agree. For example, I was not a shooter when my occupation involved carrying a rifle, and its the reason why I stay out of SME topics (like smithing or shotguns/pistols/DMR-types)-- and instead gladly keep my ear to the ground on such topics. And while I'm no expert on MBRs either, that is where I've had enough experience where I feel I can contribute in a positive manner, while still learning of course.

 

My philosophy in expressing myself at any level has always been to mean every word that comes out (whether typed or verbal). I'll admit, I fact check as I'm typing a post, and revise it numerous times as I'm typing. Why? Because these words that we see before us, aside from the occasional in-person meet, is who we are to the rest of the world. Its my explanation of why my posts are as deliberate and technical (and long as a byproduct) as they are.

But hey, everyone's unique in their approaches, and that's fine.

I understand exactly what your talking about. I went through it on a truck forum years ago.

 

I generally don't post much unless I have soemthing to say and if what I had to say is posted, I just skip the thread. Some people think it;s about post counts etc.. but people judge by the content of the posts IMO..

 

Taking time off helps.

 

Remember, it's easy to say I woulda or play monday Morning QB but when your in the thick of it, we all know it's different.

It's a double edged sword. As much as you may hate the tacticool commandos drooling over the ACR with ACOG that they saw in Call of Duty, forums serve a valuable purpose in places like NJ where some of us may not have ever met a gun owner in our whole lives!

 

Just three years ago I thought only cops and security guards had guns around here. I thought that the FID card was a federal law! That "assault weapons" were full auto and only "backwards" states "down south" let people carry guns. (in reality, 42 states are either shall issue or no restriction for carry) Now I am very much into RKBA and guns. Without gun forums/internet I'd have never known just about anything I do today.

 

I hate the tacticool speshul forces guys (who come in all ages, I might add) as much as anyone else. But whenever you see some 22 year old dope with an AR-15 that's got 2 grand in bullshit hanging off the rails, think of it this way, would you rather have him being a dope at the range with an overpriced poodle shooter, or on democraticunderground spewing Brady Bunch talking points?

 

Fact of the matter is, the old guys don't want to admit it. But they're getting old. In 20 years, it's up to the younger generation to keep the right to keep and bear alive (in the USA) . How will they remember older shooters? As a bunch of crusty old ******* who think they know it all because they slow fire a bolt action in a lead sled? Or a bunch of nice guys who got them into the sport and right and taught them why 2 grand in rail covered garbage doesn't make you a better shooter?

It's a double edged sword. As much as you may hate the tacticool commandos drooling over the ACR with ACOG that they saw in Call of Duty, forums serve a valuable purpose in places like NJ where some of us may not have ever met a gun owner in our whole lives!

 

Just three years ago I thought only cops and security guards had guns around here. I thought that the FID card was a federal law! That "assault weapons" were full auto and only "backwards" states "down south" let people carry guns. (in reality, 42 states are either shall issue or no restriction for carry) Now I am very much into RKBA and guns. Without gun forums/internet I'd have never known just about anything I do today.

 

I hate the tacticool speshul forces guys (who come in all ages, I might add) as much as anyone else. But whenever you see some 22 year old dope with an AR-15 that's got 2 grand in bs hanging off the rails, think of it this way, would you rather have him being a dope at the range with an overpriced poodle shooter, or on democraticunderground spewing Brady Bunch talking points?

 

Fact of the matter is, the old guys don't want to admit it. But they're getting old. In 20 years, it's up to the younger generation to keep the right to keep and bear alive (in the USA) . How will they remember older shooters? As a bunch of crusty old assholes who think they know it all because they slow fire a bolt action in a lead sled? Or a bunch of nice guys who got them into the sport and right and taught them why 2 grand in rail covered garbage doesn't make you a better shooter?

 

+1

OK a couple white nuckle blasts into the triple digits on the Busa. I feel better now :twisted:

We are all "students". Even the best shooters and instructors are always learning.

 

And they ADMIT they dont know it all and are always learning...it's the newbies that refuse to understand that they DONT know it all.

Well for what

if your having a blah blah blah im bored moment watch some tv.

Ray Ray I understand what you are saying but.... pedantery knowledge is one thing. Real world is another. Ill give you an example watered WAAAY down for brevity. Guy a has forged by his own hand metal for many years. Guy b, MIT grad engineering degree in hand. This part needs to be made this way for this project. Guy a, no it will break. Guy b my books say it wont. OK we do it both ways and see. When guy b's part breaks he asks guy a how he knew. Experience from doing that you can only gain from doing!!! It cant be found in the book! This is a true story.

 

Length of time shooting is iirelavent. Length of time shooting correctly is relevant. I do not care who listens to me. I offer my advice freely as a mutual student. Take it or leave it. But all the wanna be's are silencing the efforts of those that know with their incessant arguing and poor manners.

 

An example of what Im talking about.

 

A budding machinist student fresh out of high school in trade school taking a world renowned rifle builder to task because his book at school said something different than what the builder was doing.

 

A new shooter taking to task a seniour trainer at Rifles only about what a waste top shelf equipment is.

 

A new shooter (I **** you not) quoting his XBox tactical experience as it relates to real world and why his way is better. (Arguing with what I happen to know was a real deal D-Boy)

 

A new shooter quoting his paintball experience as it relates to real world.

 

Again, nothing new but its becoming a flood instead of the few annoying instances.

 

Perhaps its the way its gone about. They do not approach it from, I learned this, could you explain that. Its a rude assesment right out of the gate! This is what I dont understand! Followed by a chime in from the same kind.

 

So, your assuming that I act like I know it all and I have been shooting wrong all this time. Couldn't be farther from the truth Shane.

 

Well for what

Just be thankful this is not a Honda civic typer r jspec mod 64 forum, yo. We would have all these threads about we raced a toyota camary and totally smoked it., even though they weren't racing.

 

 

when you go to the range is when you shut them up, you can learn all you want on the net, but the range will separate the boy's from the men..especially handguns.

We are all "students". Even the best shooters and instructors are always learning.

 

And they ADMIT they dont know it all and are always learning...it's the newbies that refuse to understand that they DONT know it all.

"The more i know, the more i realize i don't know."

 

I once heard this back when i was a cocky youth that had it all figured out and quickly dismissed it as fortune cookie drivel. Once reality eventually set in, such an axiom was something that i was then guided by and so i was definitely more of a listener after that.

We are all "students". Even the best shooters and instructors are always learning.

 

And they ADMIT they dont know it all and are always learning...it's the newbies that refuse to understand that they DONT know it all.

"The more i know, the more i realize i don't know."

 

I once heard this back when i was a cocky youth that had it all figured out and quickly dismissed it as fortune cookie drivel. Once reality eventually set in, such an axiom was something that i was then guided by and so i was definitely more of a listener after that.

 

 

Aint that the truth.

 

Up until I started dating someone who worked in the credit derivatives market for Citigroup, I thought I had an understanding of Credit default swaps and other derivatives.... and then I saw their operation.... lets put it this way, in my office of 50 brokers at UBS, I was the only one that had an understanding, and that is after 6 months of being with my ex. lol.

 

Have to constantly learn, and as interests expand, there is more stuff that comes in. That is the beauty of it. I love learning and will be the first to admit I dont know something.

 

There is stuff that you know that you know.

There is stuff that you know you don't know.

And there is stuff you don't know that you don't know.

 

The last one is what gets people into trouble.

The worse are the Glock and XD ones.

Pafoa has turned into a pathetic site and is the biggest for asshats and crybabies. The worse in my opinion. Thank God it has been down.

Ray Ray, not sure where this is coming from...

"So, your assuming that I act like I know it all and I have been shooting wrong all this time. Couldn't be farther from the truth Shane. "

My post adressed to you was on your comment of general youth today and directed at same. It seems you have taken that comment and applied it to yourself personally..... The excerpt of how long you have been shooting correctly actually in my mind was directed at the old crumudgeon at the range that says things like "Cocked and locked is dangerous, you should carry that 1911 hammer down". It doesnt matter that they have done it wrong for more years than I have been alive. Wrong is wrong. So the new shooter thats only been shooting a year but went to Thunder Ranch and has been doing it right for a year trumps a lifetime of wrong. Again the point was time behind a trigger doing it wrong is irrelevant. Time behind a trigger doing it right is relavent.

 

Follow me? At no time was I speaking about you directly. (except in the other thread about serial numbers .