When did NJGF become NJPF?

 

Yeah, and where's my crossbow? That thing rocks Danny!

And expect DJ to point out ALL Grammatical and spelling errors......

I can't I tried but I just can't ignore this.

 

Last time I checked in order to own a firearm you have to be of age, and there for you are no longer a child. So why don't you do us all a favor and stop referring to us a one. Thanks!

 

 

PM sent as to try to deal with this BS that apparently exists between us...

this way the rest of the forum doesnt have to deal with it all...

 

the PM was extremely civil just as my posts has been... i will add nothing more to this in the public forum..

 

:shhh: he has something against conservatives

 

j/k matt...

Sheesh, I go away for a few days and this breaks out?

 

Yes, we are growing and we are like a 2 year old child... learning boundaries and complaining.

 

Ben, I really don't believe alot of it applies to the forum, maybe to some folks, however out of any place, I do believe we are very newbie friendly. Go visit ar15.com hometown section.

 

the big big big big issue that I see right now, is not really group think, but rather "I have owned firearms for x amount of years, or did this or did that, so my way is the right way." I am not a firearms expert, and will be the first to admit it. I look forward to the information I get from tim about reloading, from Shane on optics and accessories, from Wolfy about soups, and matt about the girls. However, having said that... No one has the right to force their opinions on anyone else. You can share your viewpoint, but don't force it down someone's throat. If you make your argument clear, concise, and the reasoning makes sense, they will follow it. If someone doesn't take it, stop posting 20 times about it.

 

Yes, this even applies to gun control, etc. Antis keep hammering guns are bad, Pro 2a keep hammering we need guns... neither one looks good to the casual in the middle independent.

 

I will not stand here and force my opinion on anyone, the only thing anyone here can do, is present their ideas and opinions, and let the audience decide. By trying to force your opinion, you are no better than anyone going door to door to convert your religion.

 

Lastly, the comment about people who get to group get together or whom made friends off of the forum.... it is not an elite group, no one said you cannot join any of us, we have new folks joining us weekly, and have met folks the week after they found the forum.

 

so in summary, forum is to be a friendly place to new people to involve them with firearms. We are not going to force anyone down anyone's throat. Anyone can share their opinion, but do not expect anyone to take your advice, and no one has the right to complain, bitch, or call someone stupid for not taking it. If you cannot play by those moral and easy to follow guidelines, get out. You dont have to be here, you dont have to post here, you are not paying anything to be on here. I didnt start the forum for the money, nor do the mod's on the forum do it for personal gain. We do it to create a place where people can express their ideas, without being forced.

I look forward to the information I get from tim about reloading, from Shane on optics and accessories, from Wolfy about soups, and matt about the girls.

 

You are kidding, RIGHT?!?!?

 

 

Anyone can share their opinion, but do not expect anyone to take your advice, and no one has the right to complain, ****, or call someone stupid for not taking it.

 

Maks - you ran afoul of your own profanity filter.

And expect DJ to point out ALL Grammatical and spelling errors......

 

I've been holding back lately. I have determined that I will never get Ray to use LOOSE and LOSE properly, any more than I could get Old School to hate Glocks.

 

Furthermore (not aimed at you KPD or anyone specifically), I have been appalled at the general pussification of NJ and the forum lately. It's a privately run forum. If you are moderated - GTF over yourself - I have been moderated more in the past week than probably anyone and I have not ****ed to anyone about it.

 

If you want this to be a Nanny State type forum, I'm out.

And expect DJ to point out ALL Grammatical and spelling errors......

 

I've been holding back lately. I have determined that I will never get Ray to use LOOSE and LOSE properly, any more than I could get Old School to hate Glocks.

 

Furthermore (not aimed at you KPD or anyone specifically), I have been appalled at the general pussification of NJ and the forum lately. It's a privately run forum. If you are moderated - GTF over yourself - I have been moderated more in the past week than probably anyone and I have not ****ed to anyone about it.

If you want this to be a Nanny State type forum, I'm out.

 

 

This..if you step over the line and your peepee gets smacked it's on YOU..if you cant handle it then GTFO..... (I'm not as polite as DJ LOL)

I've been reading this thread and was reluctant to respond past my first post because I didn't really see the point. I've said before that this board, just like any other board, is a reflection of real life. There are regular folk, and there are assholes. That's life, and you learn to either accept the foibles of others, or move on to find someplace that suits you better.

 

However, a couple of points in this post annoyed me. Well, maybe not annoyed, but gave me pause. I had to read it a couple of times, since it's fairly obscure, and I think the message really lies between the lines.

 

My issue with the forums as I've voiced privately is the growing trend of elitism (generally speaking) and group think. Its a common issue with any forum, but I've noticed here particularly that in many cases, the "homey" feel of things can alienate newcomers.

I couldn't agree less or disagree more. This is one of the most open, sharing and inclusive groups I've ever been associated with. Generally, we abhor anonymity. We want to know you, we want you to come shooting with whatever group is getting together, we desire your company (unless you're a dick, but we even accept Ray). The elitists among us are quickly called out and exposed, and we go on our merry way, encouraging participation and, yes, dare I say it, camaraderie within the shooting community in NJ. If any new member feels threatened or intimidated by that attitude, let them talk to any of the new guys who have found a group that shares their interests, and is willing to put up with whatever little idiosyncrasies they have in order to share some time on the range, get to know each other personally, and hopefully, eventually make us stronger as a group.

 

However, in many ways this forum continues to not embrace the concept of educating the anti's and fence-sitters (in regards to firearms), if not being downright hostile. Would it be a broad paint stroke to say that's the whole problem with the entire firearms community? Probably as those on the other side of the line are as irrational. However, why continue to push away the same people we say we're trying to educate? Hypocrisy, definitely.

The antis will always be antis, just like the rabid pro 2A, open carry, machine gun on campus toting whackos will always be what they are. There are places for both extremes. This isn't necessarily it. We're looking for the middle. We're showing anyone who'll listen that gun owners are just regular people, doctors, lawyers, engineers and ditch diggers, and not crazed lunatic fringe dwellers who secretly plot the overthrow of polite society. We try to accomplish that by being friendly, inviting, inclusive and yeah, "homey". Come to the range. Meet us, talk to us, try this gun, try this sport. You'll like it, and it probably won't turn you into a sociopath.

 

Not hypocrisy, and nobody here who understands the concept of community tries to push anyone out. It's a lot like self-deportation. The people who don't get it turn nasty, get called for it, and eventually move out of the group. Not everyone is gonna fit in. For the ones who do stay, there'll be casual conversation, political discourse, gun talk, humor (possibly at someone's expense), and an open and sharing group of people who are willing to educate and embrace virtually anyone. And pie. Just like life.

Nice...... I wish I could be as good with words as Ken

:clap:

Ken for President

To clarify, the highlighted word was "can" in my previous statement. The way we, as forum members who know what to expect, view the perspective of things here on the forum differs from what would be expected by a newcomer. With that said, does the attitude of the forum alienate all of those newcomers? No, obviously not as the growth and increased interaction amongst members would show otherwise.

 

The argument then posed would be, "well, if they are pushed away from the group, who cares?" as you eloquently put in response. While I agree with Maks that its not in any of our rights to push our beliefs on anyone else, what must be there to begin with is the opportunity. Without the opportunity, what gain is there really? The exclusivity of the group stays within the exclusivity of the group (disregarding family members as they are essentially an extension of that exclusivity), and the growing trend of elitism continues-- without much consideration due to the fact that the taxers would never admit that they tax too much. Is it always hostile? No-- for the most part it isn't at all. I agree, as I've said in other threads, that this forum specifically is pretty easy on the mind because it lacks in its shortcomings like arfcom, xdtalk, etc. Does it require more moderating? No, I agree that people should be simply responsible for their actions.

 

However, this is something worth discussing because this transcends simply being an issue of the forum. This is a matter of a reflection of the community. My post was not a damning piece to point out the shortcomings of the forum as it is-- it was a warning, more/less, of what could occur as time progresses... a long-term diagnosis. The elitism and group think are not prevalent in this exact moment, but, with time, if people don't look beyond their walls-- it will happen... its bound to happen. The more people = the more of what I'm saying, unless there is strict moderation (as is the case with most every forum I can think of right now).

 

But hey, good luck. I've overstayed my welcome, and I guess I'll let old dogs lie. A couple thousand members from now [along with my early "congrats"] just remember what I've said today.

I was not aware of an elitism problem. That is not to say it doesnt exist and or maybe its something Im guilty of? If I am let me know! But to BBK's point and to my original point, lets not turn this into AR15.com! I have been on forums longer than I would like to admit! I have watched them rise and fall. Hell I was a member of AR15.com before it was a sponsered site! Anyone remember that? And so with those experiences the words of caution are born. The only site I have seen truly be able to grow and still hold onto what it originally was is the Hide. Its because they suffer no fools there and you cant swing a dead cat without hitting an operator, fed le, manufacturer, world class shoooter, world class smith, etc etc. But that methodology would not work here. The sensibilities and sensitivities are different here. Which is a good thing for a hometown style forum.

 

Perhaps a good edict or approach for all of us to follow is this. Talk, talk, talk, your way, my way, points givin, points taken, OK now lets go meet up so I can really show you what I mean and you can show me what you mean. In other words shut up and shoot! Nothing teaches as fast as actual experience. Or lets meet up so I can actually help you with what you are asking about. THAT in my mind would be the ultimate service from a forum for a forum.

 

Shane

As a noob, i've been helped alot by this board and i've gotten plenty invites to come shooting. Hopefully i'll be able to make some next week! Having said that there are moments when people seem to lose patience with the newbies, but as a grown man i've come to expect that. I post on other forums which deal with different subjects and the same can be said of those boards as well.

 

I will say however, that we could all use thicker skin and some more patience because this is a weapons forum (not coin or stamp collecting), and we need to keep in mind that some people have never dealt with firearms before or haven't shot anything above a rimfire rifle in 10 years (like myself). So we come to a board like this to try and soak up as much information as possible. Speaking from experience, i didnt have anybody else to turn to for information and so i came here. I've been a pest asking questions but every step of the way i've thanked everyone for all their insight and help.

 

People often fear the unknown, its easier to get into boating, racing,scuba, firearms, heck even fishing if you've grown up with it and been exposed to it. Many of you may have been raised and taught about those things, and have learned the ins and outs of those areas. I unfortunately have not, and as a result needed to just dive right in and learn. Keep in mind that a majority of the people will be afraid to take that dive, so we need to try and educate anyone and everyone thats willing to learn.

theRU, its not guys like you on the new shooter side of the fence that are a problem. I will help someone like you all day every day! I have been given a lot of top shelf info by guys that have a pass it along philosophy. I believe it is my duty as the recipient to in turn become the presenter. When I broke into pistolsmithing, it was like I invaded a secret society. It literaly took years to finally make aquaintences with smiths that had the above philosophy.

 

 

Its the guy that as a new shooter is either embarassed about the fact or has an inferiority complex that can be a pain. These are the people that are hard to help because they are filled with "I knew that" or its "My uncle was a navy special forces green beret seal team 6 operator and HE said a semi 308 with AP ammo is the BEST solution for home defence in an appartment complex" I find the example of BAD advice troubling because another new shooter might actually listen. Another is "I dont see why argue argue argue". It always baffles me when I get into a discussion or debate with someone over a technique on something only to find out they dont own, have never owned and have never shot the item they are arguing about. I guess in the end I dont mind helping anyone if its for good cause. When I find out it was a time waste, I get irritated. I admit it.

Its totally understandable Shane, and that kinda crap is everywhere. I'm just saying dont let that type get you down. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink... Keep Doing your best..and hopefully the numbers of responsible gun owners or just plain users grows.

IMO the forum has been a success, but one thing I dislike is where people try to ram their thoughts and beliefs down other member

Redfish, I agree... mostly. You have to remember one thing. We engage in an activity where what you do can directly affect me and vice versa. Think about the example I gave previously about a 308 semi with AP ammo. Thats an individual that if an incident did happen, someone can get injured or killed. Could be me or mine or it could be my rights are impeded because of his actions. I will ALWAYS beat the horse dead into dust on topics like that. Here is an example NON FORUM RELATED but it makes my point. At the range last weekend. Old guy with K98's, Mosins etc etc. Another with AR's. Range is called cold, lights on, alarm sounded(no weapons handling on the cold range). It reached the point where I almost had to knock the old guy out! People are down range. Guy 1 start handling his AR's... with people down range. I call to him, hey people down range! He stops handling his rifles. Well, I guess old guy didnt like that so he starts arguing with me that on his rifle the bolt is out so "technically" its not a rifle any more. I say look it may not be able to fire but its still a bad practice. We go around a few more rounds and the whole time he keeps handling his rifles....with people down range!!! I reached the point of look we can debate all you want, stop handling your rifles or whatever you want to call them "technically" while people are down range! I finally convinced him his position was wrong by pointing to my son and saying your teaching him or anyone like him handling is OK with people down range. I finally hit a point he couldnt argue, it took a while. Funny that my 10 yr old was standing there going "people down range, dont touch your weapon" the entire time, he just didnt hear LOL.

 

The reason I give this example is it is not a matter of opinion. What he was doing was wrong and a direct violation of safety rules of the club. If it takes me forever to argue with someone like that to finally get the point across, I will. Its in all our best interests!

Redfish, I agree... mostly. You have to remember one thing. We engage in an activity where what you do can directly affect me and vice versa. Think about the example I gave previously about a 308 semi with AP ammo. Thats an individual that if an incident did happen, someone can get injured or killed. Could be me or mine or it could be my rights are impeded because of his actions. I will ALWAYS beat the horse dead into dust on topics like that. Here is an example NON FORUM RELATED but it makes my point. At the range last weekend. Old guy with K98's, Mosins etc etc. Another with AR's. Range is called cold, lights on, alarm sounded(no weapons handling on the cold range). It reached the point where I almost had to knock the old guy out! People are down range. Guy 1 start handling his AR's... with people down range. I call to him, hey people down range! He stops handling his rifles. Well, I guess old guy didnt like that so he starts arguing with me that on his rifle the bolt is out so "technically" its not a rifle any more. I say look it may not be able to fire but its still a bad practice. We go around a few more rounds and the whole time he keeps handling his rifles....with people down range!!! I reached the point of look we can debate all you want, stop handling your rifles or whatever you want to call them "technically" while people are down range! I finally convinced him his position was wrong by pointing to my son and saying your teaching him or anyone like him handling is OK with people down range. I finally hit a point he couldnt argue, it took a while. Funny that my 10 yr old was standing there going "people down range, dont touch your weapon" the entire time, he just didnt hear LOL.

 

The reason I give this example is it is not a matter of opinion. What he was doing was wrong and a direct violation of safety rules of the club. If it takes me forever to argue with someone like that to finally get the point across, I will. Its in all our best interests!

 

I understand what you are saying.... but

 

It was not your place to argue with the guy. Say it once.... if he refuses to listen. Then what you should have done is gotten a RSO, and let them do their job....

Redfish, I agree... mostly. You have to remember one thing. We engage in an activity where what you do can directly affect me and vice versa. Think about the example I gave previously about a 308 semi with AP ammo. Thats an individual that if an incident did happen, someone can get injured or killed. Could be me or mine or it could be my rights are impeded because of his actions. I will ALWAYS beat the horse dead into dust on topics like that. Here is an example NON FORUM RELATED but it makes my point. At the range last weekend. Old guy with K98's, Mosins etc etc. Another with AR's. Range is called cold, lights on, alarm sounded(no weapons handling on the cold range). It reached the point where I almost had to knock the old guy out! People are down range. Guy 1 start handling his AR's... with people down range. I call to him, hey people down range! He stops handling his rifles. Well, I guess old guy didnt like that so he starts arguing with me that on his rifle the bolt is out so "technically" its not a rifle any more. I say look it may not be able to fire but its still a bad practice. We go around a few more rounds and the whole time he keeps handling his rifles....with people down range!!! I reached the point of look we can debate all you want, stop handling your rifles or whatever you want to call them "technically" while people are down range! I finally convinced him his position was wrong by pointing to my son and saying your teaching him or anyone like him handling is OK with people down range. I finally hit a point he couldnt argue, it took a while. Funny that my 10 yr old was standing there going "people down range, dont touch your weapon" the entire time, he just didnt hear LOL.

 

The reason I give this example is it is not a matter of opinion. What he was doing was wrong and a direct violation of safety rules of the club. If it takes me forever to argue with someone like that to finally get the point across, I will. Its in all our best interests!

 

 

Here is the thing though, if you are not there, next time, do you honestly believe he would not handle his firearms like a dumb-ass?

 

I doubt it.

 

Much like a drunk driver who gets a DUI, loses license.... do they all of the sudden stop drinking and driving? Maybe some will, but most will not. If it takes you 20 mins and 10 back and forth arguments, the guy stopped handling his firearms not because he agrees with you, but because he was tired of arguing and just wanted to shut you up.

 

Once again, this forum was fonded upon sharing ideas, no one, at any point in time has the obligation to shover their opinion down people's throats. If you want to do it, send it via a pm, but do not subject yourself to anyone else reading it.

 

Alot of people appreciate advice.

 

take a look at the post where you guys hammered jermz1987. Do you seriously believe he doesnt know a safe is better? At the end of the day, what you do does not make you any better than anyone that you do not want to be on ar15.com.

 

 

Ken for President.

"I hereby state, and mean all that I say, that I never have been and never will be a candidate for President; that if nominated by either party, I should peremptorily decline; and even if unanimously elected I should decline to serve."

 

William Tecumseh Sherman

"I hereby state, and mean all that I say, that I never have been and never will be a candidate for President; that if nominated by either party, I should peremptorily decline; and even if unanimously elected I should decline to serve."

 

William Tecumseh Sherman

 

WELL - thank the GOOD LORD your name is Ken W and not Willy T.

It was not your place to argue with the guy. Say it once.... if he refuses to listen. Then what you should have done is gotten a RSO, and let them do their job....

while the range officer should have been notified ASAP.. the practice of policing other members at the range is one i see no harm in.. while it IS ultimately the range officers duty to maintain control.. he (or she) can simply NOT be everywhere at once.. SO sometimes you need to get involved.. I feel a STRONG sense of agreement with what shane says.. yeah.. we live in a free society.. America.. where ideas and views should NEVER be forced on others.. when it comes to the SAFE HANDLING of firearms that thought goes right out the window.. the REASON that so many "force" their view is because its RIGHT.. firearms for the most part are pretty exact.. and what i mean by that is you will always have stupid people doing stupid shit.. BUT we KNOW that its wrong, there is no subjective interpretation.. so why not get involved and save people the headaches they might have to deal with, and more importantly.. save others the pain that may be caused by gross mishandling..

 

made up quote just to convey what im saying..

hey I just got a bunch of reloading equipment and did my first set of 40S&W reloads.. i went with triple the normal load of powder.. can't wait to shoot these in my Glock!

 

we all KNOW whats gonna happen when he pulls the trigger.. we all KNOW how many people MIGHT get injured (shooter included).. so i ask.. do you prepare to just ignore the situation and allow him to "do what he wants" OR will you beat the horse to death trying to convey just how bad of an idea that is..

"It was not your place to argue with the guy."

 

Not so. There are no RSO's at my range. Its CJRPC with a policy of self policing. It is up to each and every member to enforce the safety rules.

 

 

"take a look at the post where you guys hammered jermz1987"

 

Ask Jermz if he felt "hamered" by me. I suspect you will find he didnt.

 

"Here is the thing though, if you are not there, next time, do you honestly believe he would not handle his firearms like a dumb-a**?"

 

I do because when I brought up that point, I could read in him the well shit, that is a good point, change in his demeaner. And even if I'm not hopefully someone like me will be and he will get the same speach.

 

"At the end of the day, what you do does not make you any better than anyone that you do not want to be on ar15.com. "

 

I respoecfully disagree. The influx of armchair commandos have driven off many people with real world experience and good advice. Add to that a fan club of moderators and members. Any of you remember the Dick Swan, Frank Green debacle and the flood of coolaid that flowed? There are a few good people that I hear still post there but... I suspect its lost in a sea of white noise.

Opinion: Policing someone who has shot before, is like putting training wheels on an adults bike.

 

I can understand if you don't like their technique, but I think the person who taught the person to shoot in the first place should be held liable for the way they shoot currently. I was personally taught (for the 1st time) by an NRA instructor, I took the firearm safety course before I got my FID and he showed me the 3 methods to shoot, and strictly taught me about safety and the rules.

 

But for someone who already established their own method, weather right or wrong, unless your wearing a badge on your shirt that says Range Instructor, or NRA Instructor.. Most wont listen or will doubt your experience.

It was not your place to argue with the guy. Say it once.... if he refuses to listen. Then what you should have done is gotten a RSO, and let them do their job....

while the range officer should have been notified ASAP.. the practice of policing other members at the range is one i see no harm in.. while it IS ultimately the range officers duty to maintain control.. he (or she) can simply NOT be everywhere at once.. SO sometimes you need to get involved.. I feel a STRONG sense of agreement with what shane says.. yeah.. we live in a free society.. America.. where ideas and views should NEVER be forced on others.. when it comes to the SAFE HANDLING of firearms that thought goes right out the window.. the REASON that so many "force" their view is because its RIGHT.. firearms for the most part are pretty exact.. and what i mean by that is you will always have stupid people doing stupid ****.. BUT we KNOW that its wrong, there is no subjective interpretation.. so why not get involved and save people the headaches they might have to deal with, and more importantly.. save others the pain that may be caused by gross mishandling..

 

made up quote just to convey what im saying..

hey I just got a bunch of reloading equipment and did my first set of 40S&W reloads.. i went with triple the normal load of powder.. can't wait to shoot these in my Glock!

 

we all KNOW whats gonna happen when he pulls the trigger.. we all KNOW how many people MIGHT get injured (shooter included).. so i ask.. do you prepare to just ignore the situation and allow him to "do what he wants" OR will you beat the horse to death trying to convey just how bad of an idea that is..

 

No one is saying you cannot offer your opinion, and if someone is doing as in the quote above, I will tell them, obviously, it is not safe. However, if after 3 times I tell them it is not safe and they dont do it.... I will simply ask to know when that person will be shooting those loads and I will be sure not to be there.

 

When you bicker about subjective stuff, it is stupid, when it is about safety, like an obvious example you gave above, no one is going to think you are over doing it. HOWEVER, when it is the same people, who just cant help but get a little bit of themselves on everyone else.... more than post after post, and it goes into 4 pages... it is redundant. and most of the posts, namely one or two, are not blantant safety issues such as the two examples you and shane gave.

 

Much like last night, there was a cease fire at Brick Armory, the RSO went down range, everyone moved back away from ports. One gun was still futzing with his firearm, Tony (tjsportingarms) tapped him on his arm and told him to step away. Right there, calmly, the issue was resolved, and no one thought it was offensive.

 

The bickering about:

 

1. You should have a safe instead of storage cabinet/door safe/hardened door.

2. Dont buy cheap glass.

3. Dont buy a Lee Press, buy Dillon

4. Dont buy a Glock/Hi Point/ etc...

 

etc. etc.... have nothing to do with anyone but the original shooter.

 

As much as I dislike Glocks, if I meet someone at the store and they are looking at Glocks, and are undecided, I would advise them to shoot at least an XD, a Smith, and an HK, side by side with the Glock if they can, to make up their minds for sure and not just go by the feel of the gun. If the person take my advice, but buys the Glock because they say it in a rap video, I am not going to go out of my way follow them home, and keep texting them every day with the benefits of owning that glock.

 

What some people are doing are no different than Obamacare, stating, we are the government, we know better than you, and we will shove down your throat because you are too stupid.

 

John Locke - "Your rights end where my nose begins"

 

Some people may be smarter, or more experienced with certain fields, but no one is better than anyone else, and there is only 1 God, and it is not anyone here. Offer your opinions, but don't be surprised if some posts get deleted if you are being preachy or too repetitive. Even though you think you may be doing good for someone, you are turning off many more people, newbies included.

1. You should have a safe instead of storage cabinet/door safe/hardened door.

 

yeah does not effect you until the gun hits the streets and is used to rob you..

responsible gun ownership = SAFE

we will happily and respectfully agree to disagree

 

2. Dont buy cheap glass.

3. Dont buy a Lee Press, buy Dillon

4. Dont buy a Glock/Hi Point/ etc...

 

agree %100...

 

more often than not i HAVE made that post "buy X instead of Y because if this is something you are going to bet your life on.. you want it to work EVERY time.." BUT I will leave it at that if the OP still wants to go with Y, because as you stated... no skin off my back..

 

without dredging the whole safe thread up again.. the guy with the closet has EVERY right in the world to store his guns in ANYWHERE in his home.. hell, in his sock drawer if he so sees fit... some of us were simply voicing our opinion that if they are stolen.. they can potentially be used against YOU.. your NEIGHBOR.. your local LEO.. loved ones.. and so on.. for SOME OF US, the means by which you secure your firearms can be a live or die decision.. one that can effect your ENTIRE community.... the ONLY part I was wrong on in the closet thread WAS to beat it to death.. and i DID beat it to death for that I appologize.. but as i explained to Matt.. it was ONLY because it is a subject that i find fairly sensitive.. had it been ANYTHING else.. mag choice.. ammo brand.. etc.. i would have offered my 2 cents and walked away..

1. You should have a safe instead of storage cabinet/door safe/hardened door.

 

yeah does not effect you until the gun hits the streets and is used to rob you..

responsible gun ownership = SAFE

we will happily and respectfully agree to disagree

 

2. Dont buy cheap glass.

3. Dont buy a Lee Press, buy Dillon

4. Dont buy a Glock/Hi Point/ etc...

 

agree %100...

 

more often than not i HAVE made that post "buy X instead of Y because if this is something you are going to bet your life on.. you want it to work EVERY time.." BUT I will leave it at that if the OP still wants to go with Y, because as you stated... no skin off my back..

 

without dredging the whole safe thread up again.. the guy with the closet has EVERY right in the world to store his guns in ANYWHERE in his home.. hell, in his sock drawer if he so sees fit... some of us were simply voicing our opinion that if they are stolen.. they can potentially be used against YOU.. your NEIGHBOR.. your local LEO.. loved ones.. and so on.. for SOME OF US, the means by which you secure your firearms can be a live or die decision.. one that can effect your ENTIRE community.... the ONLY part I was wrong on in the closet thread WAS to beat it to death.. and i DID beat it to death for that I appologize.. but as i explained to Matt.. it was ONLY because it is a subject that i find fairly sensitive.. had it been ANYTHING else.. mag choice.. ammo brand.. etc.. i would have offered my 2 cents and walked away..

 

I agree with you 100% And I honestly believe the next gun purchase money should be on a safe, however in any case, keeping them in a closet with a better door, is better than sticking them under the bed. =)

Bickering? Havent seen it yet. I am well aware that the crowd I run with has skin so thick you would need a jackhammer to get through it. And I realise the sensibilities of the gen pop are different so I put myself waaaaaay in check when in your house. But Im with Damadged that the unsafe are going to get rode like a pony!

I swear, I regret ever posting those pics. Even if you feel strongly on the subject, Post once..Then end it. I can read, I know where you guys stand. I know a gun safe is a better idea.I know that if my guns get stolen a pregnant baby will get shot in the face. I know. People say they don't want to bring up the closet thread. then stop using it as examples. Off topic I know, Just for your information, I do own a safe. All the firearms are there right now. So don't worry, your community's are safe from Jermz's firearm collection.