theRU your are definitely on the other team when the zombies come!

 

You've obviously never have seen "the road" have you? After 40 years without cleaning that mosin will still allow me to hunt, i dont know how long an AR would last. You'd have to stock up on cleaning supplies, greases and spare parts, whereas all i'll need is spam cans...and windex.

While its optimal to have actual cleaner/lube like CLP or slip, there can be many substitutes (WD40, Vaseline, etc). With emerging tech, ARs are proving to not be as finicky as people assume them to be (fail zero treatments as an example). I will agree that there is no doubt that MNs and other mil surplus have greater tolerances, and I can definitely appreciate that. But I could imagine it would be as equally difficult to find Windex or even hot water as it would be to find some type of lubrication for an AR (yes, even hot water).

Well if we cant start a fire, we've got bigger problems than worrying about the weapons we have access to at home.

No problem just stick the muzzle end of and m44 into dry grass and fire and the fireball coming out of the muzzle will start a fire problem solved.

No problem just stick the muzzle end of and m44 into dry grass and fire and the fireball coming out of the muzzle will start a fire problem solved.

 

Then the concussion from the muzzle blast will blow it out.

Not to stir the pot, but it will.

I understand that the Mosin and the ammo is cheap. Fine with the price of firearms and ammo these days it is nice to have something cheap to shoot. That being said, if what you want you currently can't afford it, save up for it. Don't settle or get just because. Fine it's accurate at long distances with a decent scope or even iron sights. I even moderately understand for those of you who think when "SHTF" this something to have. But why bother? I just don't understand why? Furthermore why even bother shooting it at the BH when it's ONLY 23 yards away? Sure the WTF is that factor is there, but it seems like a waste to shoot it at only 23 yards. It might be that I have a different mindset when it comes to shooting and the guns I have and will buy down the road. I mainly do action shooting with some other disciplines thrown in. So that might me biased. Alright I am rambling here, I just don't get it.

Not to stir the pot, but it will.

I understand that the Mosin and the ammo is cheap. Fine with the price of firearms and ammo these days it is nice to have something cheap to shoot. That being said, if what you want you currently can't afford it, save up for it. Don't settle or get just because. Fine it's accurate at long distances with a decent scope or even iron sights. I even moderately understand for those of you who think when "SHTF" this something to have. But why bother? I just don't understand why? Furthermore why even bother shooting it at the BH when it's ONLY 23 yards away? Sure the WTF is that factor is there, but it seems like a waste to shoot it at only 23 yards. It might be that I have a different mindset when it comes to shooting and the guns I have and will buy down the road. I mainly do action shooting with some other disciplines thrown in. So that might me biased. Alright I am rambling here, I just don't get it.

 

I also don't understand the need to blast any "high" powered rifle at a short, indoor pistol range.

 

A good thing about Mosins is that they won't lose value while you're saving up for something you really want to shoot, and you get to throw lead downrange while you're saving up. Then when it's time to buy what you really want to shoot, you can sell off the mosins and get your money back. Also, you will most likely have sent 440 rounds worth of practice downrange in preparation for your "nice" gun, so you won't waste any expensive ammo and can get straight to business.

Yeah BH is only 23 yards but the sights on the Mosins tend to suck. At 50 yards they're ok but at 100+ it's tough. At 23 yards it's nice to see the target and how you're hitting. Plus it gives us some trigger time.

this conversation is going in circles.

 

you dont understand mosins

 

mosins dont understand you

 

in the end it'll kill you just as good for a fraction of the price.

I dunno Ru, I might take that 40 year bet. Not sure how well that mosin will operate after 40 years of corrosive ammo and no cleaning :twisted: I know I can easily get around 2000 rounds through my XCR with no cleaning

I dunno Ru, I might take that 40 year bet. Not sure how well that mosin will operate after 40 years of corrosive ammo and no cleaning :twisted: I know I can easily get around 2000 rounds through my XCR with no cleaning

 

Haha..then you obviously havent seen the picture from the hot chick thread with an african woman carrying around 100 year old mosin in original condition. FYI there was nothing hot about her.

My 1946 M44's bore is still nice, bright, and shiny... there's 64yrs and counting. Probably was in cosmo for much of that time, but still.

 

Yes, shooting high power rifle at an indoor range is somewhat useless. You can dial in windage, get your scope/sights on paper, and get some trigger time on the rifle. Other than that, its great for the WTF factor when you start laying down fire. On the same note, I did not see any mention about people bringing AR's and other similar modern weapons to the range. I've seen plenty of them, so lets not count them out of this point. One personal note on the subject... I have never gone to bullethole or any other indoor range on my own to shoot the M44. I always go with the group just to have fun and blast. Any time I want to go do some actual target rifle shooting with it its down at Ft Dix.

 

Oh, another thing.... low power rifle is not high power rifle. Put a any .30+cal rifle in the hands of someone who has only fired a .22, .22-250, .243, etc, and watch what happens. The recoil/noise/pressure is nowhere near a high power rifle and they will probably flinch. After like 1000rds with the Mosin I still catch myself jerking the trigger or anticipating sometimes. Its mentally challenging to squeeze the trigger without any anticipation or influence with a Mosin. After all that Mosin trigger time I was able to pick up Glenn's .308 remy 700 and first time shooting it put a real nice 5rd group at 100 yards. So even if you are shooting some old antique .30cal boomstick, I say it helps you prepare for shooting other rifles of similar caliber. Would you rather spend .20/rd and learn .30cal on a M44, or .75c/30-06? Ya know?

My 1946 M44's bore is still nice, bright, and shiny... there's 64yrs and counting. Probably was in cosmo for much of that time, but still.

 

Yes, shooting high power rifle at an indoor range is somewhat useless. You can dial in windage, get your scope/sights on paper, and get some trigger time on the rifle. Other than that, its great for the WTF factor when you start laying down fire. On the same note, I did not see any mention about people bringing AR's and other similar modern weapons to the range. I've seen plenty of them, so lets not count them out of this point. One personal note on the subject... I have never gone to bullethole or any other indoor range on my own to shoot the M44. I always go with the group just to have fun and blast. Any time I want to go do some actual target rifle shooting with it its down at Ft Dix.

 

Totally agree shooting a rifle indoors in a range as small as the BH seems useless. I know there is a range in Goshen that has a 100 yard range. But 23 yards? Come on.

Okay, obviously me, Sirsloop and krdshrk brought our Mosin's to the BulletHole. I didn't know my own "people" would give me crap over it. I was only shooting my toy and I wanted to show her off to Nick (krdshrk).

 

Since you brought it up, Ronhonda, i don't understand race guns. I don't get spending thousands of dollars for a gun that can do the same thing a Glock or XD can do. But I don't bash them, because they're shooting. Their on "my" side of gun arguments.

 

Don't take that the wrong way man, but I felt I had to defend myself and the other indoor Mosin blasters.

 

btw, where still friends so don't get mad.

I wasn't giving you crap over it. I just didn't understand why you would want to shoot it indoors at such a short distance. that's it. As far as you not understanding race guns, that's fine. My 1st purchase was an STI trojan 1911 45acp. I purchased that because after handaling a bunch of different handguns, I found the 1911 suited me best. 2 weeks later a friend was selling a Nowlin Crusader 1911 in 40s&w for a price anyone in their right mind would pass up. I shot the shit out those 2 guns, and when I got into USPSA, that was what I used. Later on I found a used 1st generation G17 at a reasonable price. Purchased it,changed a few components and now it is a solid gun. After competing in USPSA for a couple years, I wanted to shoot different divisions, so I looked into what my options were. So I jumped into limited class and later open. I did my homework and purchased 2 quality guns. I am a firm believer of if you are going to buy something, buy the best you can get with no regrets. I could have used a G22 and use Dawson basepads on the mags and compete in limited. It would have been fine, but I chose a Brazos.I have no regrets. The gun has run flawlessly for the last 4 years. My open gun I bought used, and again the gun runs. Anyway, maybe we will agree to disagree. Again I was not giving you or anyone else crap about what they shoot. "We" need more people to shoot and get involved.

Ronny

I wasn't giving you crap over it. I just didn't understand why you would want to shoot it indoors at such a short distance. that's it.

 

Excessively loud, muzzle flash, wtf factor, fun to share the experience with others in the group, bring something other than pistols, introduce non-rifle shooters to an awesome firewarm.... plain and simple. Nothin like touchin off the M44 and havin everybody on the line look over WTFFFFFF?? :shock: :shock: I WANT ONEEEEE! Yeah I have a pistol that I bring to Bullethole but I'd rather chew up 7.62x54R ammo vs 9mm.

 

If you think about it, after like a few times out shooting paper targets with a pistol that gets pretty boring. I'm sure that's why you compete in USPSA... for some action. I would chalk up Tuesday night Bullethole group shoots to a plain old social event. Guy night to get out, shoot your guns, shoot everyone elses guns... its not really about how good you can shoot the paper, but what and who you are shooting with

For me, indoor rifle shooting is a function check. I do not have the time ot get outside every weekend, so when I build, repair, or decosmo a rifle , it is nice to have a spot to function test it. Sometimes the weather is wet, cold, too damn hot or I am busy with the family. Everyone has a reason, not all will agree or understand.

Okay, Ron. I can agree to disagree. Hell, if we all agreed that the same firearms where cool and some others weren't, then that would be boring! It's the gun debate that makes this forum fun!

For me, indoor rifle shooting is a function check. I do not have the time ot get outside every weekend, so when I build, repair, or decosmo a rifle , it is nice to have a spot to function test it. Sometimes the weather is wet, cold, too damn hot or I am busy with the family. Everyone has a reason, not all will agree or understand.

 

I totally agree with you here.

If you think about it, after like a few times out shooting paper targets with a pistol that gets pretty boring. I'm sure that's why you compete in USPSA... for some action. I would chalk up Tuesday night Bullethole group shoots to a plain old social event. Guy night to get out, shoot your guns, shoot everyone elses guns... its not really about how good you can shoot the paper, but what and who you are shooting with

 

Part of the reason why I hardly ever go to the range. I shot paper targets for 2 years. I got good at it, but at the same time was bored with it. Ended up shooting the shit more than the lead. Got into USPSA and everything else did not even come close in a satisfying shooting experience. Now when I do go to the range it is to function test a gun, work on some skill that I feel needed to be addressed, bringing a new shooter, or just to go hang out and meet some friends. So yeah now I go mainly to hang out.

Okay, Ron. I can agree to disagree. Hell, if we all agreed that the same firearms where cool and some others weren't, then that would be boring! It's the gun debate that makes this forum fun!

You are correct sir!

Since you brought it up, Ronhonda, i don't understand race guns. I don't get spending thousands of dollars for a gun that can do the same thing a Glock or XD can do. But I don't bash them, because they're shooting. Their on "my" side of gun arguments.

.

 

Bad example. A glock cant do what a racegun can. Thats like saying a top feul dragster and a mustang gt are the same......

 

Their mission and use are distinctly different.

Since you brought it up, Ronhonda, i don't understand race guns. I don't get spending thousands of dollars for a gun that can do the same thing a Glock or XD can do. But I don't bash them, because they're shooting. Their on "my" side of gun arguments.

.

 

Bad example. A glock cant do what a racegun can. Thats like saying a top feul dragster and a mustang gt are the same......

 

Their mission and use are distinctly different.

Actually they can. You can set up a glock 22, 24, or 35 to be competitive in limited division. Get basepads for the 15 round mags and you are running same capacity as a STI or SVI limited gun. In open, people are setting up G17's as full blown open guns. I have a good friend who built one complete with a C-more and a comp on it shoots 9 major ammo with it. So when you say that a Glock can't do what a race gun can't, think again.

Thanks for having my back Ron! But Shane likes to bully me around.

Now, I don't mean to , but what I meant was that we use pistols to put rounds down range, whether it's a race gun, Glock or Mosin.

 

Yeah, you can use a Mustang to drag race. But of course the funny cars are supped up beyond belief. So I don't know why you used that analogy. :?:

Thanks for having my back Ron! But Shane likes to bully me around.

Now, I don't mean to , but what I meant was that we use pistols to put rounds down range, whether it's a race gun, Glock or Mosin.

 

Yeah, you can use a Mustang to drag race. But of course the funny cars are supped up beyond belief. So I don't know why you used that analogy. :?:

 

.... I race in my car.... you can race in pretty much any car....

A full house race gun, built on a glock, 1911, CZ etc etc is a full house race gun purpose built for pure speed like a top feul dragster. A stock glock, 1911, CZ(mustang GT) is not and cannot do what a race gun can. I do not consider limited guns to really be race guns. Ronhonda if you followed the thread I think it reasonable to infer I meant a stock glock because one as you describe certainly falls into the catagory of race gun. Especially when you consider the $$$ figure used being thousands. Havent run into the multi thousand dollar glock yet....

 

I find members on this forum have this odd habit, be it AR's, Mosins, glocks, 1911's, race guns or limited guns to compare apples to bowling balls... :?

Ray, to further attempt to add clarification I used the analogy of cars because although they both race, they are not competitive with each other. So to say they do the same thing is a bad example like a glock and a full on race gun. They both shoot and compete just not with each other so they really dont do the same thing.

This is why for me!

C5fpTp5rP9Y

 

as tim said, shooting rifles indoors is a functions check. yes, it is pointless to shoot a scoped 308 indoors, prone, at 25 yards.

 

there are plenty of outdoor ranges... no matter where you are located. cherry ridge in the north. Somerset in Nort/west/central. Central Jersey, Old Bridge, Ft Dix, Howell? (the one by the airport), Citizens (West windsor).

 

There are plenty of clubs down south.

 

As crappy as those sights are... people are too dependent on shooting with optics. those iron sights were used. the swiss 1911 long rifle was set for a minimum of 300 meters.... iron sights.

 

the CMP vintage garand match is shot at 200 yards, open sights. Some are even further than that.

 

with modern peep sights, it is even easier to shoot with no optics.

This is why for me!

C5fpTp5rP9Y

 

 

Dang every time I see that I wonder why I didn't think about pointing the dang thing at the curb.

 

 

As crappy as those sights are... people are too dependent on shooting with optics. those iron sights were used. the swiss 1911 long rifle was set for a minimum of 300 meters.... iron sights.

 

the CMP vintage garand match is shot at 200 yards, open sights. Some are even further than that.

 

with modern peep sights, it is even easier to shoot with no optics.

 

Well said. Irons are a "lost art" these days and many people are horrible with them past 25 yards and it's kind of sad. With nice iron sights, 100-200-300 yards is normal for a person who is moderately skilled with a rifle. It's kind of sad that some people have awesome, accurate rifles but are so dependent on optics that if their cheap scope ever broke they probably couldn't even shoot at 100 yards with the irons (actually I see a lot of rifles on gun forums that the people don't even have irons on there .

 

Another thing that gets me is many, many, many people out there also have no idea how to actually shoot a rifle in regular field positions. They bring all these sandbags and sit down on the bench and have hardly ever taken shots stand/sitting/kneeling/prone which sucks because, well, if they ever have to use that rifle on a hunt or something, what are they gonna do, bring a bench deer hunting? Or god forbid if they needed to use that rifle against the zombies. Unless they plan on holding their position from the kitchen table

 

To clarify, I'm not knocking sandbags, rests, vises, benches, etc. They're great for sighting in of course. But once the rifle is sighted in, get the hell off the bench and learn to shoot for real!