Okay, so you just left the gunshop with your brand new pistol that you plan on using for home defense (or concealed carry). What is your process to get it ready for the nightstand, lock-box, or holster? How many rounds, what kind of ammo, cleaning, gunsmith upgrades?

 

I'll use my latest purchase as an example. Taurus Judge Public Defender in stainless steel. Before I even shot her I took her to my local gunsmith for a trigger job since it'll be shot mostly in DA. I've since got it back and now I'm heading to the range with an assortment of 000buck #4, bb-n-disc, and 45LC that I'll run threw it. In all about 85 rounds. If all goes according to plan and it shoots where I point then I'll consider it "good to go". Since it's not a semi then I'm not worried about magazines, feeding, cycling, or ejecting issues so that's a whole different process.

Okay, so you just left the gunshop with your brand new pistol that you plan on using for home defense (or concealed carry). What is your process to get it ready for the nightstand, lock-box, or holster? How many rounds, what kind of ammo, cleaning, gunsmith upgrades?

 

I'll use my latest purchase as an example. Taurus Judge Public Defender in stainless steel. Before I even shot her I took her to my local gunsmith for a trigger job since it'll be shot mostly in DA. I've since got it back and now I'm heading to the range with an assortment of 000buck #4, bb-n-disc, and 45LC that I'll run threw it. In all about 85 rounds. If all goes according to plan and it shoots where I point then I'll consider it "good to go". Since it's not a semi then I'm not worried about magazines, feeding, cycling, or ejecting issues so that's a whole different process.

 

I'm taking it you were really going for over-penetration protection with this choice of weapon?

 

Personally, I would clean it, lube it with whatever slime you prefer, and fire a quantity of ammo at least whatever you realistically and afford and feel comfortable with. Its important to check both SA and DA modes with the exact brand/make of ammo that you plan to use as a defensive round. I have a Taurus Tracker .357 that will not fire off S&B .357 mag factory ammo in DA. Seems the primers are very hard, and DA mode the hammer doesn't drop hard enough.

 

Since it may be living in a lock box in a bedroom or equivalent for what may be long periods, I'd give it a coating of an anti-corrosion product like Eezox or similar. Wet lube critical friction areas slightly. Don't overlube since you will be keeping it loaded, you want to avoid lube from penetrating and souring the ammo.

 

Have fun!

I'm taking it you were really going for over-penetration protection with this choice of weapon?

 

Actualy no, this weapon was desighned for close range confrentation..

The 410 shotshell is perfect load for close range..

 

Unless loaded with the 45lc..

 

http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

Heavily used Ruger P89. No upgrades. 10 round mag. UMC 115gr. ball ammo under my pillow. No flashlights or laserbeams. Pretty boring. I have better stuff with higher capacities in the safe but I really like my P89. I don't keep a round in the chamber.

I make it a point to shoot my HD gun pretty much every range visit..

I shoot the ammo I keep it loaded with..

I shoot at various unknown distances...

For the pistol I practice drawing it from the holster and shooting it.. but also picking it up off of the table and shooting it..

I focus on speed and center mass shots.. nothing fancy..

 

for a gun you plan to bet your life on.. there is never too much practice..

Off topic, but found this awesomeness had to share:

 

All kidding aside, Taurus is supposedly coming out with a Magnum Judge that shoots 454 Casull in addition to 410/45LC. That could be an interesting combo. I wish they would have made the new carbine in that magnum configuration as it could have been a fun and versatile rifle for hunting and plinking and all sorts of other things.

That would be pretty interesting, although, .454 Casull would carry some legal complications if ever used in a defensive situation. Also way too much penetration in a suburbian setting, with most factory loads anyway.

 

The court would probably try to play the "he's a blood thirsty gun nut, just waiting to shoot someone" card due to the cartridge's power and typical use in hunting scenarios. It could work if that was your only gun you had, and you are a hunter, and were pressed into use it to defend yourself.

 

Way to minimize that risk is to use calibers and similar types of weapons LE uses for your home defense firearms.

That would be pretty interesting, although, .454 Casull would carry some legal complications if ever used in a defensive situation. Also way too much penetration in a suburbian setting, with most factory loads anyway.

 

The court would probably try to play the "he's a blood thirsty gun nut, just waiting to shoot someone" card due to the cartridge's power and typical use in hunting scenarios. It could work if that was your only gun you had, and you are a hunter, and were pressed into use it to defend yourself.

 

Way to minimize that risk is to use calibers and similar types of weapons LE uses for your home defense firearms.

 

 

if you ever had to shoot someone.. IMO of course.. you are either justified or not.. the round.. gun.. accessories are really not going to matter.. while the media.. government.. etc.. may try to portray you as this or that.. it is my understanding that the law does not address approved equipment for home defense.. meaning that pump shotgun.. black power gun.. or an AR with ever accessory known to man.. will be viewed equally..

. meaning that pump shotgun.. black power gun.. or an AR with ever accessory known to man.. will be viewed equally..

 

prob not gonna be viewed by the jury equally though.

prob not gonna be viewed by the jury equally though.

 

why would there even be a jury in a justifiable home defense shooting..

Yup, its all part of the character building the prosecutor will play. They will try to portray you in a negative light to try to try to prove that you used excessive force in your defense.

does anyone have any statistics on home defense shootings in NJ VS the amount of times the home owner was prosecuted..

edited to remove auto smilies

 

That would be interesting to review.

 

Here's my logic regardless of the statistics. In self defense, typically you are OK to use the appropriate amount of force to defend yourself under the circumstances. Lets say in an home invasion situation, and lethal force is appropriate (protect you and the familiy). Now you use your .454 casull and blast a chunk out of the bad guy.

 

Were you legit in using deadly force? Sure. Can the prosecutor still file charges against you for using excessive force? Sure can. Is it easier to defend yourself (or hopefully curtail the prosecutor from charging you) if a: you use a 9mm pistol similar of the type use by many LE agencies (they wont demonize the tools they use), or B: a .454 Casull, one of the most powerful handgun cartridges around, not in use by any LE agency that I know of.

Were you legit in using deadly force? Sure. Can the prosecutor still file charges against you for using excessive force? Sure can. Is it easier to defend yourself (or hopefully curtail the prosecutor from charging you) if a: you use a 9mm pistol similar of the type use by many LE agencies (they wont demonize the tools they use), or B: a .454 Casull, one of the most powerful handgun cartridges around, not in use by any LE agency that I know of.

 

I think that you are applying jersey logic, when there is no need to.. if you shoot someone.. you shoot them.. if your analysis was accurate.. then it would put you in less legal peril to shoot to wound as opposed to shooting to kill.. if someone does something to me that requires me to use lethal force.. I am STILL under the opinion that how you make them dead is going to be pretty irrelevant..

 

"sir why did you shoot Mr. Smith on the night of 12/31/2010"

 

"because he unlawfully entered my home and when I pointed my weapon at him and told him to leave immediately, he continued to advance.. I warned him again stating that if he continued I was going to shoot him.. he continued to advance even with my rifle pointed at him.. at that point I was certain that my life and the life of my family members hung in the balance.. so I fired"

 

"oh right I am glad you brought that up.. the weapon you used.. to defend yourself.. this DPMS assault rifle.. this is a very large round to shoot someone with at such close range.. can you explain to the court why you would own such a powerful sniper rifle, and why you would choose it to shoot someone at such close range"

 

"The rifle you are asking about is a NJ legal target rifle, not a military weapon.. in a life or death situation, a situation in which seconds can be the difference between being here to be able to tell you the story, or being the story on the 6 o'clock news.. I chose the first.. I grabbed the first gun out of the safe I felt.. my concern was to defend myself.. and the lives of my family members.. not to pick a certain gun"

I think that you are applying jersey logic, when there is no need to.. if you shoot someone.. you shoot them.. if your analysis was accurate.. then it would put you in less legal peril to shoot to wound as opposed to shooting to kill.. if someone does something to me that requires me to use lethal force.. I am STILL under the opinion that how you make them dead is going to be pretty irrelevant..

 

"sir why did you shoot Mr. Smith on the night of 12/31/2010"

 

"because he unlawfully entered my home and when I pointed my weapon at him and told him to leave immediately, he continued to advance.. I warned him again stating that if he continued I was going to shoot him.. he continued to advance even with my rifle pointed at him.. at that point I was certain that my life and the life of my family members hung in the balance.. so I fired"

 

"oh right I am glad you brought that up.. the weapon you used.. to defend yourself.. this DPMS assault rifle.. this is a very large round to shoot someone with at such close range.. can you explain to the court why you would own such a powerful sniper rifle, and why you would choose it to shoot someone at such close range"

 

"The rifle you are asking about is a NJ legal target rifle, not a military weapon.. in a life or death situation, a situation in which seconds can be the difference between being here to be able to tell you the story, or being the story on the 6 o'clock news.. I chose the first.. I grabbed the first gun out of the safe I felt.. my concern was to defend myself.. and the lives of my family members.. not to pick a certain gun"

 

Better yet, "I plead the 5th"

Better yet, "I plead the 5th"

 

 

given the chance to allow an overzealous lawyer to question my character in open court with no response.. OR taking the chance to fight back and rationalize the events.. I will choose the second.. time and time again.. I understand that the system likes to twist words.. but innocent is innocent.. and if I really committed no crime.. I would rather take my chances explaining..

This topic started as how to make your handgun ready for protection to hating a judge to legality of shooting a criminal with a 454 Casual.

 

And, for your information, the 410 Winchester PDX1 load is a definite fight stopper inside 15 yards. Ouch!!!!

I completely agree with your logic Vlad; however unfortunately, I do apply jersey logic in my thinking because it is where I live.

 

I put myself into the shoes of an anti-2A gun hating prosecutor, and when they decide to go for an indictment, you then have to put yourself into the shoes of a grand jurist, made up of the majority of NJ citizens that don't know a thing about guns, care about 2A, or are familiar with NJ firearm and self defense laws. Easily mold-able by the prosecutor.

 

Its all about what the prosecutor can steer the jury to think. You'll make their case easier if they can portray you as a "blood thirsty gun nut dying to shoot someone for any reason".

 

What plays into their twisted ruse better? Standard cartridge in use by LE all over the country fired from a standard type of pistol. Or an extremely high power dirty-harry make my day type of revolver that can blast holes through engine blocks and other nonsense....

S&W 686

Hornady Critical Defense .357 125 grain

 

Please leave my house you are scaring me!!!

 

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

If this were a free state, would you also choose to use your legally registered Mac to put a few holes in the bad guy because that was the first gun available when you opened the safe?

 

 

BTW, I have a 50 caliber for home defense, but am not concerned.

 

 

Dan, what are you talking about?!

 

Once again I find myself agreeing with Vlad!

 

A justifiable shooting is a justifiable shooting, that's it. A 12 gauge slug has more energy almost any handgun caliber but I'm sure members here are using them for home defense.

 

I just used my latest purchase as an example, not for you to nit pick at my decision.

I completely agree with your logic Vlad; however unfortunately, I do apply jersey logic in my thinking because it is where I live.

 

I put myself into the shoes of an anti-2A gun hating prosecutor, and when they decide to go for an indictment, you then have to put yourself into the shoes of a grand jurist, made up of the majority of NJ citizens that don't know a thing about guns, care about 2A, or are familiar with NJ firearm and self defense laws. Easily mold-able by the prosecutor.

 

Its all about what the prosecutor can steer the jury to think. You'll make their case easier if they can portray you as a "blood thirsty gun nut dying to shoot someone for any reason".

 

What plays into their twisted ruse better? Standard cartridge in use by LE all over the country fired from a standard type of pistol. Or an extremely high power dirty-harry make my day type of revolver that can blast holes through engine blocks and other nonsense....

 

 

it is irrelevant unless you produce a mountain of instances where a normal every day citizen used a NJ legal gun to shoot an intruder and was charged.. as much as I think that your right to some degree.. the police will investigate the shooting.. the police will treat you as a suspect in a shooting.. but will they really charge you? I don't recall seeing any articles in which a NJ resident shot an intruder and was charged.. so that is why I say you are getting carried away.. just my 2 cents..

Sorry if you though I was nit picking Ray Ray, was just trying to understand your choice in weapon. Personally I'd choose a .410 anything if over-penatration, i.e. drywall etc was a concern. Was looking to start a conversation. Never said I hate the judge or anything like that.

 

I'm simply giving my opinion when choosing a handgun round for home defense, and the logic that I go through. I recently went to a Utah CCW class over at Gun For Hire. Anthony gave us a little lecture at the end of the class on using handguns for defense, he gave the same argument backing the logic i have been using. That you typically want to choose something that a prosecutor wouldn't have a foot to stand on in trying to portray you as "dirty harry". He also mentioned using a type of weapon + cartridge that is in common use by LE. He even told us about a particular case in which a prosecutor went after someone in a justifiable shooting due to the type of handgun that was used. I wish i wrote down the details...

 

Sure a 12gauge shotgun slug/buckshot is premier for home defense, and at close range trumps any handgun. The thing is again, what would a prosecutor/jury think. They are standard weapons, used by police, hunters, and for self defense. A 12 gauge isn't something "exotic" the prosecutor could sink their teeth into.

 

I'm not trying to win sides, just giving my opinion. Take it for what it is. To some it may make sense, and others will think I'm completely wrong, its all good.

Enough about all this HD vs. jury vs. the courts crap. Start a new thread if you wanna go back and forth about that.

 

I have a couple HD guns, but the one I would go to first is always cleaned, oiled, and ready to go. I shoot about 100-200rds through it every range visit and have shot about 2k+ rounds through it overall. I am working on doing more exercises involving jams/stovepipes/accidentally dropping mag/shooting while moving etc to train a little bit more in a "just in case this happens" scenario. Any HD gun I have has to go through at least 500rds of the defense ammo I am using before I even consider using it for HD.

Enough about all this HD vs. jury vs. the courts crap. Start a new thread if you wanna go back and forth about that.

 

I have a couple HD guns, but the one I would go to first is always cleaned, oiled, and ready to go. I shoot about 100-200rds through it every range visit and have shot about 2k+ rounds through it overall. I am working on doing more exercises involving jams/stovepipes/accidentally dropping mag/shooting while moving etc to train a little bit more in a "just in case this happens" scenario. Any HD gun I have has to go through at least 500rds of the defense ammo I am using before I even consider using it for HD.

 

500 rounds of home defense ammo is pricey, but I can understand it. I figure you'll find out if a semi-auto dislikes the ammo you've choosin pretty quickly, like in the first few magazines.

If this were a free state, would you also choose to use your legally registered Mac to put a few holes in the bad guy because that was the first gun available when you opened the safe?

 

yes.. If I felt the urgency of threat was strong enough to use force I would quite literally grab the first firearm I could grab.. because as I am sure you are aware.. in situations like that seconds count... I carry a Glock holstered around the home.. so for me it is a non issue... but just saying I would not really give it too much thought..

Firstly >> where do you practice such drills? ( shooting on the move, different distances, jams, mag drop etc ) at cherry ridge range officer tells me to "slow down" every time I try to rapid fire or double tap, FORGET about any moving around or gun "play" .....

2nd unfortunately I have to agree to the part where a type of weapon and a caliber can play a big role during HD court case. If it is something exotic they mite make it look that you detonated a nuke to defend your family thus endangering the public and bringing torturous death to the thug. In our "humane" society thugs have more rights than us. But then again it's all depends on the citation... it's krazy what this state makes us think about ., sad

Anyway although I have a 12g for HD now I Wud like to switch to .50 Beowulf

can we stay on topic please