Hey guys,

 

Still flip-flopping on deciding what my next pistol purchase is going to be. My FFL is holding my Beretta 92A1 until my 2 permits finally come in, and for my 2nd pistol I have been thinking of going with a M&P 9 Pro Series (Not the 5", but the 4.25" barrel with night sights) or possibly a 1911. I know I asked a similar question on the forum a few weeks ago... but now looking for some feedback from you 1911 guys on the quality of Springfield 1911's vs. the S&W 1911's. I've found a Springfield 1911 (Model PX9109LP)that I believe is just gorgeous and from a looks perspective I think it looks nicer than any of the 1911's in S&W's lineup... but looks alone don't make the gun. I don't know if they (Springfield's) are good quality-wise... as I can't find too much info or reviews online about this particular model... but I know that in general the S&W 1911's get high marks for quality. I'm aware of the internal vs. external extractor debate... I'm not a purist and it's a non-issue for me as the external extractors work great on teh S&W's. In case I do finally make up my mind on what to get, and IF I decide to go with a 1911, I just want to know which is the better 1911 of the ones I've listed below (Springfield or S&W?) and why? Here's what I've been looking at... maybe you guys can give me some advice:

 

Springfield Armory PX9109LP (Loaded Series, Parkerized, Night Sights, Ambi saftey):

 

 

S&W 1911's I've been eyeing up:

 

S&W 1911 TFP (Titanium Firing Pin, Strong hand safety only)

 

S&W 1911 Pro Series (Ambi Saftey,souped up, hand polished feed ramp, etc)

Food for thought:

 

I have only encountered a few 100% trouble free springfield 1911s. It seems every time I encounter one at the range, there are stories about it going back to springfield on at least one occasion. Ive heard things from stove piping, to the finish deteriorating, dead tritium cells, etc etc. With the S&W, no such stories. The few working SA 1911s I have encountered shoot great, but is it worth it? Its a little bit of a gamble to me. Plus S&W has hands down the BEST customer service out there (not that you will need it!). After finding many unhappy customers I will not buy a SA 1911 because the doubt will always be in the back of my head.

 

And one cannot call me biased, because I have both a SA and S&W 1911!

NJluger fired both of mine side by side when he was also torn between the two, and walked away definitivly saying yep, S&W it is!

Food for thought:

 

I have only encountered a few 100% trouble free springfield 1911s. It seems every time I encounter one at the range, there are stories about it going back to springfield on at least one occasion. Ive heard things from stove piping, to the finish deteriorating, dead tritium cells, etc etc. With the S&W, no such stories. The few working SA 1911s I have encountered shoot great, but is it worth it? Its a little bit of a gamble to me. Plus S&W has hands down the BEST customer service out there (not that you will need it!). After finding many unhappy customers I will not buy a SA 1911 because the doubt will always be in the back of my head.

 

And one cannot call me biased, because I have both a SA and S&W 1911!

 

Thanks for the info, Glenn. That particular Springfield model is just gorgeous though... It makes me drool when I see it. From a looks perspective the Springfield's are so hot! The S&W's not so much... BUT, like you mentioned I do know that quality-wise and and customer service-wise that S&W is tops. I don't know enough about the Springfield 1911's so figured I'd ask all you more experienced guys on here.

Strictly opinion - haven't owned either one (my 1911 platforms are Colt and Sig), but I hear good things about the S&W. I've heard mixed reviews on the SA guns - some of which, I believe, are not made in the USA.

 

Have you looked at the new S&W Enhanced 1911's? I'd strongly covet a S&W 1911SC Enhanced, if they offered it in .38 Super.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Strictly opinion - haven't owned either one (my 1911 platforms are Colt and Sig), but I hear good things about the S&W. I've heard mixed reviews on the SA guns - some of which, I believe, are not made in the USA.

 

Have you looked at the new S&W Enhanced 1911's? I'd strongly covet a S&W 1911SC Enhanced, if they offered it in .38 Super.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Yeah, I've looked at them... but not too crazy about the fish scale serrations. I kind of liked them when the first announced them, but after looking at them online a few times, I'm not really digging the fish scales any longer. They look somewhat odd. I wish I could hold one, as they may look better in person. If I did go with one of the new "E" series pistols... I'd probably go with either of these:

 

 

I'm not a fan of the fish scales either. I also don't like a rail on a 1911. FWIW, I have a Springfield Trophy Match which has been 100% reliable. I hear excellent reports about Springfield's CS although I haven't had to use it. I don't have experience with S&W 1911's, but everyone seems to be happy with them.

Drink the kool-aid!

 

Get the Pro Series Smith & Wessons. fantastic guns, and 100% trouble free for me, even with the torture and abuse.

 

The only issue I have had with mine is seating magazines on a closed slide in 9mm.... however very few people will ever have to do it under time constraints.

 

Otherwise, great features, and amazing value for the money.

Tony,

I owned a Loaded, it was my first 1911. I was not impressed. I swapped it for a Colt Combat Commander which I stupidly sold. Now i want one back. I am a basic 1911 guy, my only feature I want are bomar sights and ambi safety. That being said... I would recomend HIGHLY you look at the Taurus 1911s. They have a ton of extra features that jack up the price on the SA and SW, they use the same frames as Springfield, made in the same plant in Brazil, and are about 60% the cost. This leaves much change rattling around for ammo.

I have a SA TRP that I have put 2500-3000 rounds through with 0 issues at all. A buddy has a S&W 1911PD that has had an issue with FTF recently and has roughly the same use as mine.

I owned a SA and while it ran flawlessly, GlennP's SW was more enjoyable to shoot.

I have a SA TRP that I have put 2500-3000 rounds through with 0 issues at all. A buddy has a S&W 1911PD that has had an issue with FTF recently and has roughly the same use as mine.

 

Fail to Feed or Fail to Fire?

My co-worker owns the Springfield Armory TRP. Top notch gun for a great price. All the internals are serial numbered so they are fitted perfectly during the build. Not a fan of the cheaper SA's, so you get what you pay for. This is a hard decision as the Smith 1911s are good lookin too!

by the way... here is tool voice reviewing the Taurus

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GlMGVYl4wY

Fail to Feed or Fail to Fire?

 

 

Feed. Once every mag or so. I know he replaced the recoil spring and then the mag release and now it only happens on one specific mag.

I agree with you. If it weren't for the fish scales, I would have a separate account with funds for this pistol....

 

I have had a SA 1911 GI since 1985, had one issue last year with a broken hammer strut. That is the only issue I have encountered with it. It only has a couple of thousand rounds through it and I believe it was all American made back then. But you are correct that new SA is one sexy looking gun.

Feed. Once every mag or so. I know he replaced the recoil spring and then the mag release and now it only happens on one specific mag.

 

I think it was the magazine rubbing against the mag release. Once I replaced the Mag release the issue seemed to go away. The bad Magazine must have be bent or distorted because it doesn't drop free. I enjoy shooting both the SA and the S&W. Most people say that they are more accurate with the S&W.

Love my Springers, Although I only have 2 GIs and not a loaded I would own another Springer any day. The first one went back to SA for warranty work. Nothing major. They had it back to me in 7 days, payed both ways for shipping, They also did a rigger job, polished feed ramp and refit frame to slide for free. My other is a SS GI. Sent it to their custom shop to get some work done and they did an amazing job. took them 10 days from when I sent it out to when it came back. They emailed me every other day just to let me know how things were going with the gun.. Great Service. No doubt the Smiths are nice 1911s, But I would go with the Springer. Thats just personal preference.

 

 

by the way... here is tool voice reviewing the Taurus

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GlMGVYl4wY

meh, i just bought one and i'm not impressed. fit and finish is poor, extensive use of MIM, etc. I paid damn near cost for a closeout so i'm not too perturbed, but if i paid closer to msrp or street price, i'd be upset. I dont think i could recommend these to anyone without serious caveats. I didn't expect it to be on par with a 1K+ gun like my DW, but i expected a bit more than this after disassembling it entirely and going over each part with a fine tooth comb.

meh, i just bought one and i'm not impressed. fit and finish is poor, extensive use of MIM, etc. I paid damn near cost for a closeout so i'm not too perturbed, but if i paid closer to msrp or street price, i'd be upset. I dont think i could recommend these to anyone without serious caveats. I didn't expect it to be on par with a 1K+ gun like my DW, but i expected a bit more than this after disassembling it entirely and going over each part with a fine tooth comb.

 

Marketplace? What model #

JonF... so what your saying is that it's not a bad gun for $500, right?

I can only vouch for the Smith as that's the only 1911 I ever owned, but I love it! So far it's been trouble free and a really blast to shoot. I highly recommend going with one.

 

Back when I was trying to decide on a 1911, it came down to either the Smith TFP or the Springfield (was looking at either the Ranger Officer Model or the Loaded) and I made the following list of Pros and Cons (these are highly subjective of course so take them for what you will). In the end, both looked really good on paper and what helped me make my decision was shooting both side by side. I felt like the Smith was a better fitted pistol and I shot much better with it than with the Springfield. Although, I will have to say that the Smith was Glenn's pro series model and the Springfield was the stock GI model, so it's pretty much an apples to oranges comparison

 

Smith Pros:

- Nice Melonite finish

- No FPB (on the TFP or E series pistols only!)

- High quality forged slide and frames

- Best sights, Smith uses low mount Novaks on all of their 1911's that have fixed sights and I just love these

- 100% Made in USA - like a 1911 should be

- Fantastic customer service - if you ever should need it

 

Smith Cons:

- Ugly Front cocking serrations

- FPB Safety on all other models

- external extractor (for those that care about this)

 

=====

 

Springfield Pros:

- No FPB (uses a Titanium firing pin for drop safety)

- internal extractor makes the slide look cleaner

- Closer to original spec design, this would make a much better base gun if you really want to get creative with a custom build

- High quality forge slide and frame

- Heard good things about Customer Service

 

Springfield Cons:

- Crappier (in my opinion) finish - the parkerized finish isn't anything to admire

- Made in Brazil (all slides/frames/barrels come from there), they are very high quality though!

- Couple of non-standard parts that I'd probably end up replacing (ILS mainspring housing, two piece guide rod)

Go with the Pro Series. Each Pro Series gun is tested and finished by a PC smith. That is experience that can only be matched by a custom shop.

 

In the interest of full disclosure I own 3 different Pro Series time.

Thanks guys, for all the great information. Much appreciated! IF I do go with a 1911, I'm thinking that the S&W is probably the way to go... But I'm really liking the M&P 9 Pro Series too, and even warming up to the Sig P226 that I wasn't too crazy about when I had first shot one a few months ago. I spent time with one last week and I was digging it. Just too many guns out there that I'd love to have but not enough money to buy them all... so trying to decide on my next pistol is proving to be a very tough choice!

Tony,

 

If you want to come down, feel free to shoot my 9mm Pro Series 1911, and just recently picked up a Sig 226 USPSA edition.

Just too many guns out there that I'd love to have but not enough money to buy them all...

Trust me, I think that most of us here can sympathize with you.

Marketplace? What model #

 

No, online dealer. PT1911SS 38 super

 

JonF... so what your saying is that it's not a bad gun for $500, right?

No, its not a *bad* gun since it does operate, but its not a good gun either no matter what price point you put it at. Here's a short list of the things i was very disappointed with:

 

1. poor barrel bushing fit. in full lockup, i could wiggle the barrel in the bushing and wiggle the bushing in the slide. double whammy!

2. proprietary sight dovetails. Lets break out the files...

3. sloppy frame rail tolerance (jiggles when you shake it). not a terrible issue since there's no issue with accuracy but its sloppy nonetheless.

4. poor rear frame/slide fit. slide overhangs frame a lot in the back. UGLY!

5. MIM slide stop pin had visible seam and not perfectly straight. had to buff that ridge out with stone and superfine wet/dry.

6. MIM sear had a completely rounded tip, absolutely no fitting was done outside of the hammer hooks.

7. advertised "beveled magwell" is a joke. a slight chamfer on the bottom of the frame edges does not make a "magwell".

8. tool marks all over the inside of the parts.

9. many of the part dimensions are cast so close to final spec, many parts don't get actually get touched by the mill. The frame slide rails were still rough in some spots because the mill never came in contact with them.

10. The rail the disconnector rides was like sandpaper, i don't even think the mill ever hit that.

11. barrel had excess axial movement when in lockup.

12. barrel hood sides were filed on an angle to clear the breech slot. so sloppy.

13. barrel lower lugs had uneven contact with the pivot pin.

14. breech face wasn't milled square! WTF! This pissed me off more than any of the other junk on this gun.

15. ambi-safety lever on right side is loose and easy to pull out

No, online dealer. PT1911SS 38 super

 

Damn, 45acp would problably sell quicker.

If you want to see the S&W "E" Series, Walt at Hackettstown Guns and Ammo has them in stock. They are the ones without the rails..