Vlad, its not an assumption, its an impression AND STATED AS SO. Gun games is the impression you guys give me. What I dont understand is why you take that as a knock. If its not the case why wouldnt a simple, "no shane we agree our rifles are set up with the same train of thought as you" be presented. Instead you guys seem predisposed to take offence. I can tell you that one of my 1911's is a defacto gun game pistol. It was setup to shoot open class IPSC in the late 90's. I would take no offence at all if someone called it a gamer pistol. It is. It was set up to give me the advantage in that game. I think my point was fairly simple. It was that I wouldnt modify my fighting gun for any game but I would compete with it. I have the IMPRESSION that you guys give more priority to the game. Why would that be taken as a negative? If I where much more serious about 3 gun type competitions you can damn well bet i would have rifles dedicated to that end. They would be optimised for the game. And I would take NO offence if someone said they were game guns. Its not a BAD thing to be more comitted to a discipline of competition than me, honestly! I use competitions as my practice sessions. Im a highly competitive person but I lack the time and comittment to be compettitive. So MY focus remains rudimentary. Do you think I am not giveng competition its due credit for developing battle worthy solutions? I can tell you for a fact that the military pays a lot of attention to what goes on in the gun game world as there is more than a casual overlap there. There are are very good articles by Zak Smith out there on that very topic. Frankly Im not sensitive about my equipment. In fact I have no emotional investment in any of it. It would seem Im in the minority on that. I could care less what ANYONE holds as an opinion of what I run. It works for me. That is all thats important. Something else I have often stated, use what works for you and what you have confidence in as that is what likely to be most effective for you since firearms are largely a personal matter.

 

Vlad/Slav I think one of the things you are missing, when I state an impression Im getting, in essance Im asking what you run. But as I review the thread, I dont see any information. Only questions and challanges about how others have their equipment set up. I think its a fair statement that the impressions are clear by comments made such as:

"And what is the fetish with the stubby barrel? "

"Aside from that, it does not have a free float handguard."

"Aha...so what is the advantage of a short barrel for anyone not planning to go kicking in doors in Falluja?"

" If you were shooting from vehicles a lot I'd understand"

 

And this gets to the very core of my position. My rifle is set up so that if I ever had to do any of these things, that is the rifles focus. Based on these comments it would seem rather clear you disagree with this focus. However, this is not a knock on your position, simply that it appears to be different than mine.

 

But for the life of me I cant figure out the lack of humility position. I would love it if someone could explain this. I have what I have, I do what I do, I have access to people and things many do not. Everything I discuss is MY perspective or take or experience or first hand knowledge. If the board would prefer I didnt share any of this information so I can keep up humble appearances, I can surely do so. If I discuss the S&B short dot 1.1X8 I got to play with of which there were only like 3 in the country at the time, and I give my impressions and what I didnt like, are you taking that as bragging, or usefull info?

Shane, I sent you a PM, we can hash this out without polluting every thread.

Roger that, replied and gave ya my cell cuz I hate/suck at typing

Was that data collected over a single chrono? because it seem VERY fast for each barrel. I've seen PMC not pull that velocity for a full 20" barrel nevermind a 14.5" and all the rest of data seem quite fast.

 

 

All the data was collected using the same chrono, same

Day, and whitin minutes of each other. This is clear facts not conjecture. I nearly providing imperical data, refute it if you want, but provide your own data not "seems low", makes you sound like a troll.

 

 

I'll pm you a link to the AR-5.com thread about it if you want.

 

Also Shane, you continue to make assumptions that frankly are beginning to make you look a bit arrogant. You again state things like Slav is a gamer and that somehow you are shooter more serious then him and that his gun is a gamer gun with no practical use. Having handled his gun, I assure you that you are wrong.

 

Everyone is entitled to make their own opinions about people's mindset and tools. There is more to it that this is a gamer gun or a "tool". It seems there is an over abundance of people in this thread that aren't "turned on"(read mindset) and we will never be able to see eye to eye.

All the data was collected using the same chrono, same

Day, and whitin minutes of each other. This is clear facts not conjecture. I nearly providing imperical data, refute it if you want, but provide your own data not "seems low", makes you sound like a troll.

 

 

I'll pm you a link to the AR-5.com thread about it if you want.

 

I'm asking about a single chrono because I'm doubting that chrono was accurate. I encourage you to re-chrono those loads through you gun through a different chrono because those numbers do not match any other have seen in my personal experience. For example I have chrono'ed PMC 55gr in multiple 16" rifles around 2750 FPS. How far from the muzzle was the chrono, in my experience if you place it too close you end up measuring the speed of the gases not of the bullet.

 

Yes, thats me, a forum troll, you figured me out.

Everyone is entitled to make their own opinions about people's mindset and tools. There is more to it that this is a gamer gun or a "tool". It seems there is an over abundance of people in this thread that aren't "turned on"(read mindset) and we will never be able to see eye to eye.

 

So let me ask you, how did you tuned this mindset of yours? Besides reading AR15 or m4carbine.net I mean.

All the data was collected using the same chrono, same

Day, and whitin minutes of each other. This is clear facts not conjecture. I nearly providing imperical data, refute it if you want, but provide your own data not "seems low", makes you sound like a troll.

 

 

I'll pm you a link to the AR-5.com thread about it if you want.

 

 

I don't know if you are referring to me but I said "Sounds high" And if you don't like it meet me in the school yard!

I have three different barrel length ARs and a chrono if you want to play. After I make you eat troll in the school yard.

 

Play nice you Bozos!!!

I'm asking about a single chrono because I'm doubting that chrono was accurate. I encourage you to re-chrono those loads through you gun through a different chrono because those numbers do not match any other have seen in my personal experience. For example I have chrono'ed PMC 55gr in multiple 16" rifles around 2750 FPS. How far from the muzzle was the chrono, in my experience if you place it too close you end up measuring the speed of the gases not of the bullet.

 

Yes, thats me, a forum troll, you figured me out.

 

 

Good point Vlad. I always use a contol round. Generally 22lr. And if that seems reasonable I procede.

No Old School, you can meet me in my driveway. And take this freeking heavy a$$ lathe with you when you go, even if it is to small !!!!!

 

Since this thread is sidetracked beyond all recognition, again, the speed of projo's from barrels is highly subjective. And again, with match/quality barrels, the speed diff just aint there. For example, knights SR25 is getting in many cases LESS THAN 50fps difference between their 20" barrel and their 16" barrel!!! This is why you see a MAJOR push from most top tier mnufacturers to focus on 16" guns. There is little poiont to carry the extra weight of a 20 anymore. Apply that to 14.5 vs 16 and it could come down to which barrel is faster. I Bet you I can find a poly rifled 14.5 that can clock faster than most 16's....

So let me ask you, how did you tuned this mindset of yours? Besides reading AR15 or m4carbine.net I mean.

 

Send me your cv and I'll send you mine.

 

US Army and hundreds of hours of professional firearms instruction by nationally renowned instructors.

Send me your cv and I'll send you mine.

 

US Army and hundreds of hours of professional firearms instruction by nationally renowned instructors.

 

Very good, and before we go on, let me thank you for your service. I asked because there are lots of posers out there that sound just like you, with nothing to back it up, so when someone expresses a strongly worded opinion I want to know where it is coming from.

 

That said, the barrels I've seen PMC ammo chrono'd in have been JPs, and BCMs, not exactly crap barrels. I spend quite a bit of time chrono'ing loads in handguns and rifles and I've verified that my chrono is correct by comparing my results with those major match chronos with light boxes and 3 different chrono's in a row, calculating averages, for the same ammo. My chrono is normally placed 20ft or more from the muzzle, as I've found that any closer you are measuring the speed of gases escaping around the bullet, not the bullet itself.

Very good, and before we go on, let me thank you for your service. I asked because there are lots of posers out there that sound just like you, with nothing to back it up, so when someone expresses a strongly worded opinion I want to know where it is coming from.

 

 

Now that you know I'm not just an Internet commando, What is your background?

 

I don't know if a person can call another a "poser" unless they have done something themself.

I am a middle aged computer programer who enjoys competitive shooting. Note that I didn't call you a poser, though I reserve the right to call posers posers. Sorry, I don't think I need special qualifications to call out someone who pretends to be anything they are not.

Keep it civil, guys. No need for name-calling.

I don't think I called anyone anything, sorry if that was an impression I gave to anyone.

I am a middle aged computer programer who enjoys competitive shooting. Note that I didn't call you a poser, though I reserve the right to call posers posers. Sorry, I don't think I need special qualifications to call out someone who pretends to be anything they are not.

 

 

Roger, so your poser police position is based on your gun gammer status/experience. I figured as much. I just wanted to know where YOU were coming from calling ME out.

 

 

I am not bashing competitive shooters, they just do things in matches that would get you killed in real life. Many gammers don't understand/see that.

 

That being said, I have/will continue to shoot IDPA/USPSA matches in the future, they are fun just not that realistic.

Roger, so your poser police position is based on your gun gammer status/experience. I figured as much. I just wanted to know where YOU were coming from calling ME out.

 

I see, so wanting to know where someone's advice is coming from is somehow wrong. Asking what someone's experience is so I can understand their point of view and weight the validity of their opinion for my circumstances makes me the poser police. All my life I thought that using critical thinking skills made me a rational human being, thanx for setting me straight.

 

I am not bashing competitive shooters, they just do things in matches that would get you killed in real life. Many gammers don't understand/see that.

 

Funny you should say that. Most people I've heard say that generally showed up at one match, couldn't hit what they aimed at, and never came back using that line as justification. However, given your credentials I'm pretty sure you can hit what you aim at so I have to assume there is another reason you say it. Could you please provide me with some examples where competitive shooting has lead to someone getting killed in real life, I'm sure we could all learn from it?

I see, so wanting to know where someone's advice is coming from is somehow wrong. Asking what someone's experience is so I can understand their point of view and weight the validity of their opinion for my circumstances makes me the poser police. All my life I thought that using critical thinking skills made me a rational human being, thanx for setting me straight.

 

 

 

A PM would have been more appropriate to ask about my credentials then saying i'm an ar15.com/m4carbine.net internet commando.

 

I'm glad you utilize critical thinking skills when attempting to call someone out rather making assumptions with no factual basis...

 

 

Funny you should say that. Most people I've heard say that generally showed up at one match, couldn't hit what they aimed at, and never came back using that line as justification. However, given your credentials I'm pretty sure you can hit what you aim at so I have to assume there is another reason you say it. Could you please provide me with some examples where competitive shooting has lead to someone getting killed in real life, I'm sure we could all learn from it?

 

My rational is that it's true; but being as your background is only in the competition world you wouldn't understand/know that. (nice attempt at an insult - that i can't hit what i aim at)

 

 

Send me a video of one of your matches and i'll make a list with times for when tactically unsound things happen.

Locking this thread as we're way off base, and nobody seems to want to reel it back in after repeated efforts.

 

There is a PM function, use it.