As if you guys need another reason why CCW is paramount, and that police are worthless...

 

Take a look at this video...

 

http://tinyurl.com/3d7mluf

 

The man on top is STABBING the guy on the bottom in the neck....look how the cops handle it. They draw down, but while the guy is stabbing away, they do nothing. No shots fired (spare me the "he can hit the innocent guy crap") no boot to the face, no baton to the back.

 

Just want to refresh everyone's memory, police HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT YOU!

I see your point but what if they cracked him with something and the guy cut the jugula?

they should have put a bullet in him if he was still stabbing the homeless guy....WTF?

I see your point but what if they cracked him with something and the guy cut the jugula?

 

Well one cop was pulling him by the belt...... that coulda gone just as bad.

cmon now - just taze the crud out of him already - oh right. NJ cops can't use tazers. Duh - Harlem is not in NJ...

They beat the crap out of some kid with a skateboard. Open fire on a drunk in a car, shoot a student in handcuffs on a subway platform, taze a man perched on a ledge, but stand there and watch as a man tries to hack another mans head off with a pocket knife...... LoL

1st, making blanket statements that police are worthless is simply wrong. 2nd, all you cowboys that think you can make the judgement call to end someones life based on 30 seconds of video, thankfully you are not cops. Would it change all of your opinions if you found out later that the guy being stabed just raped and killed the attackers 9 year old daughter? Or that he was in fact the victim but got the better of his attacker? Sure its still wrong but it would have been a greater wrong to kill him if that was the circumstance. YOU CANNOT ASSUME THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF AN EVENT FROM 30 SECONDS OF VIDEO!! There is a million variables to any situation. Since I didnt see active stabbing, I think the officers were correct to procede with caution and reserve based on the video clip alone. If the attacker actively stabbed in the presence of officers, then greater force would have been justified.

the level of stupidity in that video is unmeasurable... if stabbing someone is not reason enough to be shot.. what the hell is..

I dont see any active stabbing in the video. From the vid you do not know at what point the officers were on scene. Again what if the guy on top was the victim and got the better of his attacker, took the attackers knife and was holding him at knife point waiting for police. Shoot him anyway?

I dont see any active stabbing in the video. From the vid you do not know at what point the officers were on scene. Again what if the guy on top was the victim and got the better of his attacker, took the attackers knife and was holding him at knife point waiting for police. Shoot him anyway?

 

 

Exactly. Some people just seem way too eager to open fire without the facts.

Well, it was hard to tell exactly what was happening, but actively stabbing or not at that moment, is almost a moot point.

 

The point others are trying to make, is that the officers (at least 7, probably more) just stood around while the man was on top of another man with a knife in his hand. You hear the people around yelling for them to do something, hit him or anything. Of course shooting him dead based on that clip alone, may be an extreme. But the fact that only one officer made any attempt to stop him was a bit disturbing. That man was an immediate threat to the man he was on top, and not until he got off and dropped the knife was he restrained. I mean, could they really not safely hit him with something, or thrown him off, or used a taser on him?

 

I certainly don't want to be too quick to judge, but it seemed like the officers weren't too quick to help either.

Im not an officer but I would say that I dont really care at all what the bystanders are saying because you never know what their motivation is. They could be with the bad guy whichever one that turns out to be. How do you know he is not armed with more than a knife? Thats an assumption that could get you killed when you move in to a safe distance for a knife and find yourself facing a pistol. What you percieve as a lack of actions I see as measured responce based on a quick observation. If no one is actively being stabbed, you have the time to observe and decide the best action. OODA principle if you will. Observe, Orient, Decide, Attack. And this in my opinion is why this symbol is populer amongst those that go in harms way. 1* Most do not consider how much you have to take in quickly to act decisively without ending up with a bag zippered over your face.

Those decisions are not exclusive to police officers. Most also don't consider what it would be like to be the one being attacked (the victim) either. So it does go both ways.

 

I'm not saying their actions were wrong. But just as I don't know that there actions weren't wrong, you can't possibly know that there actions were right either.

ok.. point made.. so use some non lethal force.. batons? mace? boots? as opposed to just standing there waiting for them to "be done"

Shoot the hostage! Kidding!!!

I could be wrong but they may not have shot because they could not get a proper backstop to any bullet...

I could be wrong but they may not have shot because they could not get a proper backstop to any bullet...

 

But they can carry Hollow Points!!!

 

Harry

Use of deadly force would of been justified. Just saying and saying all cops are useless is bs, , and if u had a gun on u wud u of used it..... Let's say u did, u would probably be in jail, there had to be a reason shots weren't fired, maybe kids in the car, who knows, and there was plenty of people there to, police at that.... Maybe they were ordered not to use deadly force, and any strike to the head especially with a baton constitutes deadly force, its a red zone, no.go, the spine... Another res zone. So yea maybe u should learn more before talking garbage about police, there here to help you, and u carrying a gun wouldnt of changed a Damn thing in that circumstances. If anything the police might of Shot you.

1st, making blanket statements that police are worthless is simply wrong. 2nd, all you cowboys that think you can make the judgement call to end someones life based on 30 seconds of video, thankfully you are not cops. Would it change all of your opinions if you found out later that the guy being stabed just raped and killed the attackers 9 year old daughter? Or that he was in fact the victim but got the better of his attacker? Sure its still wrong but it would have been a greater wrong to kill him if that was the circumstance. YOU CANNOT ASSUME THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF AN EVENT FROM 30 SECONDS OF VIDEO!! There is a million variables to any situation. Since I didnt see active stabbing, I think the officers were correct to procede with caution and reserve based on the video clip alone. If the attacker actively stabbed in the presence of officers, then greater force would have been justified.

 

This post makes zero sense. You do understand the point of police right? The fact that the guy might have raped a 5 year old girl 30 minutes earlier doesn't matter. Police are NOT judges/jury/executioners. Police have no way of knowing that he raped a girl until they do heavy investigating. The video is blatantly clear. If some guy was on top of you stabbing you in the neck, you would have been dead due to police inaction. Circumstances don't matter. Police action matters.

This post makes zero sense. You do understand the point of police right? The fact that the guy might have raped a 5 year old girl 30 minutes earlier doesn't matter. Police are NOT judges/jury/executioners. Police have no way of knowing that he raped a girl until they do heavy investigating. The video is blatantly clear. If some guy was on top of you stabbing you in the neck, you would have been dead due to police inaction. Circumstances don't matter. Police action matters.

 

I don't always agree with Shane, but you're making the same point. The police are not there to judge and were right not to shoot him. Not right by a little, or depending on a circumstance, 100% right not to shoot him. I'd think a tazer could have been a good choice, but I'm not trained in tazer use.

Get ready to grab, and---- pepper spray....

I don't always agree with Shane, but you're making the same point. The police are not there to judge and were right not to shoot him. Not right by a little, or depending on a circumstance, 100% right not to shoot him. I'd think a tazer could have been a good choice, but I'm not trained in tazer use.

 

 

so you are a police officer..

you arrive to find someone on top of someone else who is "stabbing them"..

you say STOP.. POLICE.. and they do not stop..

at what point do YOU stop them...

 

ironically there are some states that would totally allow someone with a CCW license to stop this nonsense immediately.. in fact FL specifically states you can use a legally owned concealed weapon to stop the commission of a violent crime in which someone is in danger like this....

 

no you can not CLEARLY tell what is going on in this video..

but if someone IS in fact being actively attacked.. and does not stop when the police tell them to.. that to me is the point at which they NEED to get involved.. not passively by tugging on someone's belt..

so you are a police officer..

you arrive to find someone on top of someone else who is "stabbing them"..

you say STOP.. POLICE.. and they do not stop..

at what point do YOU stop them...

 

ironically there are some states that would totally allow someone with a CCW license to stop this nonsense immediately.. in fact FL specifically states you can use a legally owned concealed weapon to stop the commission of a violent crime in which someone is in danger like this....

 

no you can not CLEARLY tell what is going on in this video..

but if someone IS in fact being actively attacked.. and does not stop when the police tell them to.. that to me is the point at which they NEED to get involved.. not passively by tugging on someone's belt..

Okay I'd go along with that, but that isn't what is expected of NY or NJ police...and CCW is pretty much them at the moment anyway.

I believe the point he is making, is that if in many places you yourself have the right to use deadly force and could intervene, wouldn't it make sense for a group of 7+ police offers to do a little more then stand around saying "stop" in NYC?

Ha, wait, we're all going to rush to judgement based on 65 seconds of amateur taping? Wait, no, looking at the state of things in the US, it makes sense. /sarcasm off

 

Unless someone has all the details, incident reports, witness accounts, etc., I think it's a bit much to think that any conclusion at this point makes much sense. There are a ton of reasons to maintain a stand-off, and there could have been a ton of reasons to bum rush the threat-- who are we to judge (or at least the ones who are)? And then to use it for an argument like CCW without having much of the facts? Eh.

There is a difference between judging someone saying they are wrong, and illustrating a point and making conjectures based on what we do have...

 

But you know, there wasn't a thread started on the subject was there...oh wait.

The most ridiculous part of all of this is that it doesn't matter what the cops did. If they opened fire plenty of people would be on the other side of the fence saying it was excessive, some hackers would go ahead and release him and his families information over youtube, and he would probably lose his job, his life completely ruined because he wanted to do the right thing. Happens way too often these days. If I were a cop I'd be damn afraid to do anything extreme too.

Pepper spray would have been bad - It probably would have hit the victim too.

I believe the point he is making, is that if in many places you yourself have the right to use deadly force and could intervene, wouldn't it make sense for a group of 7+ police offers to do a little more then stand around saying "stop" in NYC?

 

+1!

 

right.. If I a law abiding citizen am empowered to end a violent attack in a state like FL.. I find it absurd that a group of 7 cops could do is stand and watch.. it doesn't matter to me WHO the victim was.. at that point there was an attack.. and the police.. who last time I checked were at least semi responsible to restore some kind of order.. could only stand there and look on.. until one cop makes the heroic act of tugging on the guys belt.. look.. I am one of the first people to jump in line to defend cops.. but there is clearly something going on here that needed to be stopped.. and what I find appalling is the lackadaisical attitude..

Pepper spray would have been bad - It probably would have hit the victim too.

 

I will take the temporary discomfort of pepper spray VS the far more permanent discomfort of getting my face stabbed.. but hey.. that's just me I guess..