How about this one: http://www.slickguns...x39-rifle-49999

 

looks like a flash hider to me but they label it a brake so no idea...... 30 round magazine.. so no..

also..

The M10 AK-type rifles are entirely manufactured of all

 

ak type is banned by name..

 

your best bet IMHO is the following..

 

if you want an AR.. buy pieces slowly over time.. it is what I did on my last build..

OR

if you want an AK.. there are some NJ legal variants out there.. but just get a Saiga for a few 100 bucks.. and then put the money into modifying it..

you can get as complex or as simple as you want..

 

I just sold this Saiga for like $600? which is just a hair more than I had in it..

 

or something far more elaborate.. but was also really expensive..

this is my current Saiga (I am in PA that is why it has that stock and magazine)

 

I have done the whole rail thing and all that.. and honestly on an AK it just makes the gun awkward.. figure out EXACTLY what you want and then your answer will be very simple.. My saiga is primarily for shooting and moving.. center mass type fast shooting... it is nice and light..

How about this one: http://www.slickguns...x39-rifle-49999

 

Comes with a 30 round mag, that's illegal. However everything else SEEMS to be okay (I could be wrong) but the mag makes it illegal. It's possible to have it shipped to an FFL who will dispose of the mag, or get it pinned to 15 rounds, then you'll be okay.

 

I'm not sure about the muzzle-end. They call it a brake, which I believe IS legal, but if it's a flash-hider/supressor by name, it's illegal.

whatever it is.. the barrel is threaded.. so that would have to be pinned and welded as well..

I was wondering if I could order it without the mag and suppressor? And vladtepes, That is one SICK saiga!!! Exactly what I would like to build. (with a smaller mag). Could you point me in the right direction of which saiga to start with and where I can search for upgrades? Or should I get an sks? Would be better for me to start with a cheaper gun and enjoy it till I can afford to throw upgrades at it and make it my own.

I was wondering if I could order it without the mag and suppressor? And vladtepes, That is one SICK saiga!!! Exactly what I would like to build. (with a smaller mag). Could you point me in the right direction of which saiga to start with and where I can search for upgrades? Or should I get an sks? Would be better for me to start with a cheaper gun and enjoy it till I can afford to throw upgrades at it and make it my own.

 

I have genuinely only owned military/leo type weapons.. AKs.. ARs.. Glocks.. etc...

they all perform in unique ways.. what I would honestly tell you is take a step back.. figure out EXACTLY what you want.. and I (and others) will tell you EXACTLY what to build..

 

want to make precision shots.. holes in holes.. then no. AK will suck and be a huge disappointment..

want an unbelievably reliable gun.. that will work every time.. that you can bang out tons of cheap ammo through.. while hitting center mass? then an AK is a great choice..

 

since you said AR or AK.. I assume you just want something with a more military styling.. and that is fine but just figure out what your expectations are.. there is nothing worse than being disappointed..

my Saiga is light.. reliable.. center mass shooting.. mid range rifle..

then I have two ARs.. the 556 one I have yet to shoot.. just finished the build.. but my 308 AR puts holes in holes..

right tool for the right job..

 

if you want to learn more about Saigas.. check this out..

http://njgunforums.c...on-information/

 

I can answer any questions.. offer any help.. I have put together a lot of Saigas.. there might be slightly cheaper AKs out there.. but I have never seen a disappointed Saiga owner.. ever..

but just make sure you are getting the right gun..

Would be better for me to start with a cheaper gun and enjoy it till I can afford to throw upgrades at it and make it my own.

 

no.. wasted money..

it is best to buy the right tool the first time..

 

Saiga.. and AR.. will both allow for upgrades as money permits..

modifying a Saiga is very simple.. and with gun.. you could get it done for around 600 including the gun.. or you could get carried away.. I forget how much.. but including optics.. my 7.62 Saiga has well over a thousand dollars into it..

Seems this site has one that might fit the bill.

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32028-wts-romanian-sar-2-545/page__pid__424605#entry424605

Certainly seems to me that the saiga is the way to go. I do want a very accurate rifle. I love the AR but 2 of my buddies have them and I wanted to be different thats why I was referring to the ak plus the fact their cheaper. Can you get a 15 round mag for the saigas?

Certainly seems to me that the saiga is the way to go. I do want a very accurate rifle. I love the AR but 2 of my buddies have them and I wanted to be different thats why I was referring to the ak plus the fact their cheaper. Can you get a 15 round mag for the saigas?

 

you can get 15 rounds.. sure..

if you want an accurate gun.. then get an AR15.. at the end of the day you will likely be happier.. AK is designed to hit a man sized target.. reliably.. and that is what it does..

AR15 tends to be substantially more accurate.. AK OR SKS not the answer IMO..

So the saiga isnt as accurate as a AR? Would love to build something like yours.

an AK in general is not as accurate as an AR..

 

all of my AKs will hit a man sized target all day long at mid range.. I shoot my AK in a move and shoot type way.. pin point accuracy is not really relevant to me with that platform.. the AR on the other hand is much more accurate..

 

AK tends to be more reliable.. and generally has a more powerful close range round (7.62x39 VS 223)

the AR tends to be slightly less reliable but is more accurate..

 

so it all depends on what you want..

Thanx vlad, youv been a TON of help.

 

 

Thats not what I want to hear! What about the m10-762?

 

That's an ak style. Youll see them for $500 here and there. But remember the ones there will be pa legal models no nj legal. The ar's you have no shot. I go for ammo and accessories.

For the money you want to spend on that ugly M10 whatever it is, spend the extra 100 bucks and get something made by Waffenwerks, Interarms, or even a nice CAI build like the milled.

 

These threads always turn into Vlad on his knees for Saiga's...god damnit Vlad!

For the money you want to spend on that ugly M10 whatever it is, spend the extra 100 bucks and get something made by Waffenwerks, Interarms, or even a nice CAI build like the milled.

 

These threads always turn into Vlad on his knees for Saiga's...god damnit Vlad!

 

these threads always turn into me relaying my personal experience with Saigas..

 

I can make you a list of people who went with Saigas since talking to me about it.. the list would be rather long..

I could make you a list of those that regret buying a Saiga and converting it.. but unfortunately I would have no one to list..

further... I could make you an rather long list of those who purchased other hit or miss variants.. that got screwed.. people who got canted sights.. ill fitted mag wells... poorly cycling guns... none of those people own Saigas..

 

want to hate on Saigas.. go ahead... there are countless owners who have had them and have had nothing but amazing experiences with the gun.. I would ask you why you have so much resentment towards the platform... but since your opinion in regards to the AK platform is totally moot to me I won't waste your time..

 

I have seen.. handled.. fired... junk AK variants.. never had a bad Saiga.. it is JUST my personal experience..

Honestly guys, Im not looking for a top of the line rifle here, basically just a cool toy. I have a cabin that Im going to be putting a shooting range in and just want something fun and cool to pop some rounds off. Im also buying a few pistols soon.

.

these threads always turn into me relaying my personal experience with Saigas.. I can make you a list of people who went with Saigas since talking to me about it.. the list would be rather long.. I could make you a list of those that regret buying a Saiga and converting it.. but unfortunately I would have no one to list.. further... I could make you an rather long list of those who purchased other hit or miss variants.. that got screwed.. people who got canted sights.. ill fitted mag wells... poorly cycling guns... none of those people own Saigas.. want to hate on Saigas.. go ahead... there are countless owners who have had them and have had nothing but amazing experiences with the gun.. I would ask you why you have so much resentment towards the platform... but since your opinion in regards to the AK platform is totally moot to me I won't waste your time.. I have seen.. handled.. fired... junk AK variants.. never had a bad Saiga.. it is JUST my personal experience..

 

I don't really hate on Saiga's. It just gets annoying how you are so close-minded about them that's all. You say you handled all these 'junk AK variants', when most companies that build kits do a great job. Just because you shot a couple that weren't great builds, doesn't mean that all variants are junk. Many variants that are crap are low end builds...people want an 'inexpensive' rifle, then complain when they get a crappy build.

 

I have shot quite a few AK's as well, of all different makes and models, and I have only shot 1 that was actually 'bad'. The FSB was canted, and yes it was a CAI.

 

Now if people started looking into better kits, then they would realize that there are a ton of nice AK's out there. Waffenwerks, for example, is a company that builds gorgeous kits, and I have not heard of any problems with them. And they are priced just above WASR's.

How about this one: http://www.slickguns...x39-rifle-49999

 

Terrible by design! One of the few flaws of the AK is the short sight radius. And what did they do? Shorten it even more! No thanks...

I don't really hate on Saiga's. It just gets annoying how you are so close-minded about them that's all. You say you handled all these 'junk AK variants', when most companies that build kits do a great job. Just because you shot a couple that weren't great builds, doesn't mean that all variants are junk. Many variants that are crap are low end builds...people want an 'inexpensive' rifle, then complain when they get a crappy build.

 

I have shot quite a few AK's as well, of all different makes and models, and I have only shot 1 that was actually 'bad'. The FSB was canted, and yes it was a CAI.

 

Now if people started looking into better kits, then they would realize that there are a ton of nice AK's out there. Waffenwerks, for example, is a company that builds gorgeous kits, and I have not heard of any problems with them. And they are priced just above WASR's.

 

if you are going to reply to my posts.. at least try to read them..

someone else actually recommended a Saiga before me..

 

I do not hold stock in izhmash.. I apologize that people listen to my recommendations and are happy with the rifles they end up with.. I apologize that I am not interested in a pre-built unit when I can build my own and have EXACTLY what I want..

 

I prefer to sit there and learn the gun..

build the gun..

understand the gun..

 

and end up with EXACTLY what I want.. I have said time and time again there are other AK variants out there.. it is like you are bent that people take my advice.. why do you even give a fugg.. I am not telling people to buy junk...

 

I am telling people to buy a Russia made AK variant.. that they can customize however their heart desires.. while in the process learning everything they could ever need to know about the gun.. you give your opinion.. and no one cares.. we get it.. there are other variants..no one cares.. if people don't want a Saiga don't get one? I am not forcing anyone to buy anything.. at the end of the day it is the users choice.. I don't attack your for whatever you have.. It has NO impact on me.. I swear you troll my friggin posts waiting for me to say the word Saiga.. enough is enough? I have NO issues with you.. can we let the bs go already?

 

I am just trying to help people out.. as I was once helped out... like I said.. if they want some wasr with canted sights and an action that feels like it was polished with rocks... go for it..

 

if you have some kind of "issue" can you just PM me or something so we can work it out.. instead of constantly babbling about how I like Saigas "too much"

OH I get it now. Yeah thats probably a true statement. How many dealers over there look at you like you have a third eye .

Shopping for a gun at a PA gun show is not a fun experience. You pretty much nailed it. Maybe not looked at like you have a third eye, but you'll actually get laughed at when you tell them you're from NJ.

I am just trying to help people out.. as I was once helped out... like I said.. if they want some wasr with canted sights and an action that feels like it was polished with rocks... go for it.

 

Hahahaha dude. This is a perfect example...oh if you don't want a Saiga then get a screwed up WASR. You always compare crappy low-end AK's to the golden Saiga. There are tons of great AK's other than just the 'crappy' AK's you compare your golden Saiga to.

Hahahaha dude. This is a perfect example...oh if you don't want a Saiga then get a screwed up WASR. You always compare crappy low-end AK's to the golden Saiga. There are tons of great AK's other than just the 'crappy' AK's you compare your golden Saiga to.

lol

fair enough...

I think I know what my issue is.. and that is the same reason I built my AR... I ended $2k+ into my AR.. but it is EXACTLY what I want.. and I guess that is the Saiga thing.. it is a blank reliable canvas.. and at the end of the day you can pick it all.. it is IMO very similar to buying a quality AR upper and lower.. and then building it to spec.. sure there are good builders.. but.. and this might sound conceded.. but I do not believe they are netting you a rifle any better than any of my Saiga builds. and that is because my Saigas are EXACTLY what I as a user want.. nothing off the shelf is going to be any better...

 

for what it is worth..

sure there are plenty of quality AK variants out there..lol I have said that before.. I just dont get paying for off the shelf.. when you can pay a similar price and have EXACTLY what you want..

it is nothing against those builders..

hope that makes sense..

Wonder if the show will have some saigas for me to look at? Im getting a little discouraged about going now. Anyway, I found AK 30 round mags that fit the saiga. Can these be modified by me to only accept 15 rounds and be legal?

Wonder if the show will have some saigas for me to look at? Im getting a little discouraged about going now. Anyway, I found AK 30 round mags that fit the saiga. Can these be modified by me to only accept 15 rounds and be legal?

 

there are forum sponsors here that sell saigas.. try the price request...

saiga can take ANY ak mag if you install something called a bullet guide...

but there is a company called surefire that makes 15 rounders for the saiga..

 

saigas out of the box are generally NJ legal.. so you might find one.. but IMO it is like driving to a convenience store in PA to get a coffee when there is a WaWa at the end of your street..

Wonder if the show will have some saigas for me to look at? Im getting a little discouraged about going now. Anyway, I found AK 30 round mags that fit the saiga. Can these be modified by me to only accept 15 rounds and be legal?

 

As Vlad stated, if you're going to go the Saiga route, put in a price request and buy one locally. No sense in driving out to PA to get something you can get here. It might be a couple bucks cheaper but with gas and time spent, not really worth it.

 

And you would have to modify the 30rders in PA, or send them to an FFL to be modified. It is illegal to bring them back into NJ if they can hold more than 15rds.

The only problem I have with the sponsors on this site are they are all far from me. Im in the south near deleware. Guess Ill call around to my local shops.

The only problem I have with the sponsors on this site are they are all far from me. Im in the south near deleware. Guess Ill call around to my local shops.

winslow that far for you?

Yea. Im near the Deleware bridge!!! I looked at arms and ammo. Their a little over an hour from me but they have a saiga in 5.45x39 with 1040 rounds for $550. Is that a good deal and what cal do you guys recommend for target shooting?

Yea. Im near the Deleware bridge!!! I looked at arms and ammo. Their a little over an hour from me but they have a saiga in 5.45x39 with 1040 rounds for $550. Is that a good deal and what cal do you guys recommend for target shooting?

 

5.45 is great for the following reasons.. it is insanely cheap.. and is fairly accurate IMO I personally think it is likely to be slightly more accurate than 7.62x39...