I don't think such a list is a good idea because it ignore personal differences in grip styles and lengths or shapes of fingers or whatever design they change next week. The simple fact is that it design that is problematic and there are better options out there.

With a 1911

 

Prior to reading the responses, I was going to mention 2 things, not that I noticed, but would make sense just knowing the design of serpa holsters.

 

1. The issue of the button being prone to malfunction due to dirt, ice, etc, seems like a valid gripe. Whether it is true or not, I am not sure, but I would imagine it would be, as it makes logical sense. If you don't like the Serpa for this reason, I completely understand. That is an issue of function and design. That can be a problem.

 

2. Having little experience with Serpas, my thought on the button causing you to put extra pressure, and somehow as a result cause a ND, seems like it would only be an issue based on the location to the button and the location of the trigger/trigger guard itself. After reading Maks post, it seems like his thoughts substantiated my thoughts, where mine were in fact based on nothing more than holster design, and not on any specific examples. I do have a 1911 Serpa holster, and to disengage the button, my index finger extends out straight, the same way it does when holding the firearm. That, is a non issue. However, if a firearm is smaller for example, and the button is not as far out, I could see one having to curl their finger a bit, and not have it indexed outward. This could increase the potential of it going into the trigger guard, and hitting the trigger. If this is the case on any firearm, I would say that is an issue, and a good reason to not use one.

 

In summary, like anything, there are pros and cons. You'll have to figure out if the pros outweigh the cons, and visa versa.

Like I stated. I have a Serpa for my g19. You don't need that much pressure to disengage the button release. Whenever I draw from it my finger is indexed on the frame like it is supposed to be when you are not shooting. As for grit,mud and dirt in you holster I have aGrand idea, maintain and clean your equipment.

Like I stated. I have a Serpa for my g19. You don't need that much pressure to disengage the button release. Whenever I draw from it my finger is indexed on the frame like it is supposed to be when you are not shooting.

 

I wasn't saying that isn't the case, just that I could see or understand how it could be possible.

 

 

As for grit,mud and dirt in you holster I have aGrand idea, maintain and clean your equipment.

 

How does that help someone who is in the field, where there is grid, mud, and dirt. Just stop what they are doing, call a timeout, and clean your gear? Sure everyone should clean and maintain their gear, but people are in different environments and situations where that grand ole idea doesn't always work.

Going to add some stuff to the other side...

 

Was just recalling my experience a week ago in Florida, RO'ing Florida Open. A few of the shooters were extremely bad with finger in trigger guard (whole other topic on how the match was run), so after the stage (No, I did not DQ the shooter as this is we were told point blank not to by the match directors) I took the shooter aside and told them their issue.

 

The gentleman, older guy, told me he knew, and that due to arthritis his finger curved in. I am not a doctor, nor do I even begin to understand, however I fully awknoledge, that for this person, I can absolutely see the Serpa holsters being a very bad idea, as pushing the button, and engaging it, his finger would go into the trigger guard, on the trigger and go bang.

 

I sometimes forget not everyone's physical abilities are the same, and forget how people cant keep their damn finger straight to disengage the lock (not like it takes alot of pressure).

 

It all has to come down to individual shooter and they all have to make their choice, and best we can do is make people aware of what is going on.

 

Personally, the guns I shoot, in the manner I shoot them, and my physical abilities, I have no issues with the Serpa holsters. God forbid I have an ND, I am not going to blame the holster, the weather, but will accept the personal responsibility.

 

However, I completely agree that the design of the holster, combined with the design of the gun, and the person's physical abilities, in the hands of certain shooters is a potential recipe for disaster.

 

If I was to one day wake up and drink the Kool Aide, and buy a Glock, I would consider more carefully if I would run a Serpa holster.

 

In any case, if someone is worried about it, they can easily take the lock out or disable it, within 5 mins. To blatantly say outright "Don't buy Serpa Holsters" I will disagree with. =)

 

 

I wasn't saying that isn't the case, just that I could see or understand how it could be possible.

 

 

 

 

How does that help someone who is in the field, where there is grid, mud, and dirt. Just stop what they are doing, call a timeout, and clean your gear? Sure everyone should clean and maintain their gear, but people are in different environments and situations where that grand ole idea doesn't always work.

 

I'm not saying take a field timeout but anything we use in dirt,mud whatever is subject to the same potential failur to operate. Even our weapon.

Agreed there. I was just pointing out your 'grand' idea wasn't a total solution, which is how your post made it sound. If it wasn't intended to be so, then I digress.

 

I was simply pointing out some cons that effect the holster specifically, as we are discussing them specifically.

The Good

1911

Sig P226

 

Caution

Glock

 

The only thing with the 1911 and a button retention type holster is if you draw like

me which is disengage safety upon putting hand on the gun then you still put yourself

at risk. Maybe more so than a Glock since the 1911 has a very light trigger which

requires little movement.

 

I personally do not like Serpas/Button-type retention holsters. I've practiced a lot with

them since it's what I started with, but even today I worry.

 

I just got some Uncle Mikes injection molded ones just like the Bladetechs and they are

great. For competitive you I find you gotta run them a little loose so as mentioned this

does pose a risk. But I'm more comfortable with that then the button system.

Easy solution, practice to your heart's content, not to disengage the safety until your gun is pointed in the safe direction, ie the berm. Why would you click off the thumb safety before your gun is even at the target? Is it slowing you down that bad?

 

 

edit: if your thumb safety is on, there should be no freaking way you put one in your leg on the draw. Hence the video of the guy a few posts above. He was using thumb drive.

 

There would have to be three things going wrong for you to shoot yourself in the leg on the draw with a 1911.

 

1. You did not use, or clicked off the safety before your gun was pointed in a safe direction.

2. Your finger was in the trigger guard.

3. You muzzle swept yourself.

 

I don't know, maybe this is why my draw is so slow (comparatively), but I only click off the thumb safety after I draw, and my gun is presented at the target, as I am lining up the front sight.

So, I did a little experimenting with my Serpa.

 

I holster/draw my p30 with my finger the way I train, it comes out perfectly on the frame, every time.

 

I hook my finger, pressing hard and weird and one out of every 10 draws, my finger ends up in the trigger guard.

 

In DA, squeezing, without a conscience trigger pull, I can't get the hammer to drop.

 

In SA, doing it fast, hard and with my finger hooked, the hammer drops and one would have gone in my leg or the ground just in front of me.

 

Let me be clear here...I'm doing it completely wrong but I can get an unintentional hammer drop in SA which is about 4.5lbs.

 

I still like the holster.

I've used my Serpa 1911 holster during 2 steel matches and my finger is on the frame as I draw. Train Train Train

 

Train Train Train

 

Cross-draw is dangerous because your sweeping people around you. It's banned at Old Bridge. FAIL

Pocket holsters are dangerous because you could accidentally put your finger in the trigger on the draw.

Ankle holsters are dangerous because your gun could fall out should you find yourself in a sprint.

Appendix carry is dangerous because your gun is pointed at the most important part of your body.

 

blah blah blah

 

Train Train Train

Above quoted for truth. Training is the key to everything. I love my Serpa and plan on more. I also carry an ankle holster on duty with my backup. I run with it on. Its all about knowing your equipment, training with it and maintaining it. My duty holster is the safariland with the retention hood thigh holster. That is the best for duty carry as it feels the most secure. I wouldn't be comfortable with Serpa for duty as I could see the button getting accidentally depressed in a scuffle

I bought a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster for every pistol I own (unless not available) and will buy one for every new pistol I buy. I do not see them as a safety hazard.

 

I see the Montclair PD is using them.

Above quoted for truth. Training is the key to everything. I love my Serpa and plan on more. I also carry an ankle holster on duty with my backup. I run with it on. Its all about knowing your equipment, training with it and maintaining it. My duty holster is the safariland with the retention hood thigh holster. That is the best for duty carry as it feels the most secure. I wouldn't be comfortable with Serpa for duty as I could see the button getting accidentally depressed in a scuffle

 

I was being sarcastic, I ankle carry and pocket carry when I can.

Lol...sorry it seems catching Internet sarcasm isn't my forte

If you have a serpa holster, and you are so inclined, can't you just dremel out the nub on the button, no more serpa feature?

Lol...sorry it seems catching Internet sarcasm isn't my forte

 

He also trains clearing his house with a shotgun with live ammo at 3 AM.......doh!

I've also "mall-ninja tested" my holsters in the dirt and mud (while playing airsoft) and have not had any issues with the release button becoming stuck or non-functional.

 

The button release has always been the reason for my dislike of Serpa holsters. I'll bet I can get that button to malfunction in a realistic test.

 

To me, a Serpa Holster is just like a 2 lb trigger pull on a gun. In it of itself it is not bad, but to certain people it makes it exponentially less safe.

 

Maks, I have to argue this one with you. A 2lb trigger is a horrible idea. Unless we're talking a competition gun. I've been around guns for over 45 years, been an instructor for over 30, and have taught people. Being the trigger is what makes guns shoot I guess I'm one of those certain people that does feel its exponentially unsafe outside of certain parameters.

I'll bet Maks is talking comp guns and I know a few that are even lighter than my 2lb trigger and some that have just about zero per-travel and under 2lbs.

I've also "mall-ninja tested" my holsters in the dirt and mud (while playing airsoft) and have not had any issues with the release button becoming stuck or non-functional.

 

The button release has always been the reason for my dislike of Serpa holsters. I'll bet I can get that button to malfunction in a realistic test.

 

To me, a Serpa Holster is just like a 2 lb trigger pull on a gun. In it of itself it is not bad, but to certain people it makes it exponentially less safe.

 

Maks, I have to argue this one with you. A 2lb trigger is a horrible idea. Unless we're talking a competition gun. I've been around guns for over 45 years, been an instructor for over 30, and have taught people. Being the trigger is what makes guns shoot I guess I'm one of those certain people that does feel its exponentially unsafe outside of certain parameters.

 

Purely gun game guns. =) I would never in a million years suggest people have a 2lb trigger on anything but purely a gun games gun.

My 1911 serpa works. Finger on frame all day every day. Don't see hoe they are inherently dangerous when used properly

pretty funny story; all my cousins are cops in hoboken/jersey city they all have serpa duty holsters i never hear them complain

I've also "mall-ninja tested" my holsters in the dirt and mud (while playing airsoft) and have not had any issues with the release button becoming stuck or non-functional.

 

The button release has always been the reason for my dislike of Serpa holsters. I'll bet I can get that button to malfunction in a realistic test.

 

I've played airsoft in Rain, Snow, Dirt, Mud, Swamp, etc. Still have not gotten it to malfunction.

Going to add some stuff to the other side...

 

Was just recalling my experience a week ago in Florida, RO'ing Florida Open. A few of the shooters were extremely bad with finger in trigger guard (whole other topic on how the match was run), so after the stage (No, I did not DQ the shooter as this is we were told point blank not to by the match directors) I took the shooter aside and told them their issue.

 

The gentleman, older guy, told me he knew, and that due to arthritis his finger curved in. I am not a doctor, nor do I even begin to understand, however I fully awknoledge, that for this person, I can absolutely see the Serpa holsters being a very bad idea, as pushing the button, and engaging it, his finger would go into the trigger guard, on the trigger and go bang.

 

I sometimes forget not everyone's physical abilities are the same, and forget how people cant keep their damn finger straight to disengage the lock (not like it takes alot of pressure).

 

It all has to come down to individual shooter and they all have to make their choice, and best we can do is make people aware of what is going on.

 

Personally, the guns I shoot, in the manner I shoot them, and my physical abilities, I have no issues with the Serpa holsters. God forbid I have an ND, I am not going to blame the holster, the weather, but will accept the personal responsibility.

 

However, I completely agree that the design of the holster, combined with the design of the gun, and the person's physical abilities, in the hands of certain shooters is a potential recipe for disaster.

 

If I was to one day wake up and drink the Kool Aide, and buy a Glock, I would consider more carefully if I would run a Serpa holster.

 

In any case, if someone is worried about it, they can easily take the lock out or disable it, within 5 mins. To blatantly say outright "Don't buy Serpa Holsters" I will disagree with. =)

 

Should be playing golf instead. If he knows he is physically unable to keep his finger out of the triggerguard he should not be participating in a sport involving firearms. He is a danger to himself and everyone around him.

 

My Serpas for my XD and Walther PPQ land my trigger finger right along the frame. Then again my finger is realtively straight and I don't have athritis...yet.

Lets let this guy put an end to it

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qbq3tKii5A

 

Answered in the first minute

 

Vlad I agree. I've been saying this for years...

Guy that was hard lookin' at............and must have hurt like he _ _......

Had a girl at our range last year who did the same thing....yep put one through her leg....

Trigger finger placement is obviously a priority............Guy......what did you do there ? Geezzzzz.

 

 

Purely gun game guns. =) I would never in a million years suggest people have a 2lb trigger on anything but purely a gun games gun.

 

 

Thanx for posting it that way Maks some may have formed the wrong impression.

 

 

I've played airsoft in Rain, Snow, Dirt, Mud, Swamp, etc. Still have not gotten it to malfunction.

 

I'm not saying you haven't had any problems with it under the conditions you specify but have you worn it in true combat conditions? Worn it out in the freezing rain so long that the water that entered the action on your shotgun froze rendering you shotgun useless. Where you havd had literally a couple of inches of mud on your gun side from wear you tripped. Many are critical of very simple designs used my the military and there is something better in the civilian world. the difference is the military design always works.

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops just trying to point out that anything mechanical will fail at some point due to wear or the environment.