Not only that, but I have a feeling that both sides are talking about much different uses..

 

that is why I thought when I CLEARLY disclaimed that even I (a user of the holster) would have reservations about using it in certain situations, it would put an end to this..

I respect the unit has shortcomings.. but I don't feel I encounter those types of factors..

 

but hey at this point whatever.. LOL

This thread has gone on too far.

In the words or ray ray....five plus pages on a holster......smh

In the words or ray ray....five plus pages on a holster......smh

 

That's nothing, I'll have to check, but last I saw we were 3 deep in the thread about a Chamber Flag..

Now try it at speed. I'll tell you what, you post a video of 5 sub 1 sec draws on a 10 yard USPSA/IDPA target and not have any issues

I will buy you your next holster

 

Serpa isn't meant for speed. If you're trying sub-1 sec draws with a SERPA, you're doing it wrong.

Serpa isn't meant for speed. If you're trying sub-1 sec draws with a SERPA, you're doing it wrong.

 

You are saying there is a life an death scenario were you want to be slower in deploying your firearm? Interesting.

You are saying there is a life an death scenario were you want to be slower in deploying your firearm? Interesting.

 

I think we got off topic, I think now people are comparing Gun games and SD with one an other.

Who cares how fast the draw is, in real life as long as you get it out to use it god forbid you ever need it. Games do not equal real life.

I think we got off topic, I think now people are comparing Gun games and SD with one an other.

 

^^ This.

I started this thread with a neutral thought on Serpas, but after reading this thread, I am pretty sure I am going to buy another one.

I have 3 and would buy another one in a second.

Who cares how fast the draw is, in real life as long as you get it out to use it god forbid you ever need it. Games do not equal real life.

 

Wow, who cares how fast you can get your weapon into the fight, it doesn't matter? Where are you getting your training, the internet and video games?

 

In gun games, the only consequence for being slow is losing points. In Self defense it could mean losing your life.

Wow, who cares how fast you can get your weapon into the fight, it doesn't matter? Where are you getting your training, the internet and video games?

 

 

Again, you are talking about different things. Unless you know of a holster that magically transports the pistol into your hand instantly what are you getting at?

 

Since a Serpa requires the lock to be disengaged, I'd consider the basic Serpa a level 1 retention holster. Can you name another level 1 holster that can be drawn significantly faster?

Yep keep buying them because people who spend a life time around them keep banning them from their classes

 

Jeff Gonzales writes on Lightfighter:

 

We have decided to ban the use of Serpa style holsters due the higher change of negligent discharges during the draw stroke. Yet, that didn’t stop us from seeing one in class. I didn’t have a replacement holster so we had to run with it, but in the future we will be very specific about not allowing them in classes.

 

Kyle Defoor writes:

 

Whoever chose this piece of shit to be issued to anyone- you're an inexperienced pistol shooter who has no common sense. Hope you got a decent kickback from Blackhawk.

 

Another school says pretty much the same, with more details

 

 

But, hey, spend your money anyway you want, medical bills included

Since a Serpa requires the lock to be disengaged, I'd consider the basic Serpa a level 1 retention holster. Can you name another level 1 holster that can be drawn significantly faster?

 

Safariland ALS 6377

Please stop using leather holsters as well.

 

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

Please stop using leather holsters as well.

 

http://www.itstactic...tal-discharges/

 

Are you being purposely misleading? Because what that articles says don't use worn to failure holsters.

 

While I'm at it read this http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/09/marine-serpa-dangerous-new-holster-092611w/ and note the Travis Haley quote.

 

Seriously guys, when you say "I'm sure is perfectly fine" you are basically saying you know more about handling handguns then Vickers, Gunsite, Defoor, Rogers, Haley, Gonzales, and an ever growing list. With a straight face you are saying you know more about these holsters and handgun use then some of the best trainers in the world. If that is your position, then I guess I can't really argue, I can just nod and smile.

This is getting ridiculous. I think people on here are adult enough to make their own decisions on their holsters. There are plenty of people who have had positive experience to justifiy its sales. If you don't like it dont buy it. Don't make it into a pissing contest on how quick your draw is.

 

Well, lets put it this way. Would you like to see a range shut down because someone bought a cheap, badly designed holster and shot themselves unintentionally using it?

 

 

Well, lets put it this way. Would you like to see a range shut down because someone bought a cheap, badly designed holster and shot themselves unintentionally using it?

 

Surely since these holsters are so bad you can provide me with documented incidents where this has happened .........right?

Surely since these holsters are so bad you can provide me with documented incidents where this has happened .........right?

 

Yes, Please - besides the 1 youtube video where we KNOW it happened already.

Wow, who cares how fast you can get your weapon into the fight, it doesn't matter? Where are you getting your training, the internet and video games?

 

In gun games, the only consequence for being slow is losing points. In Self defense it could mean losing your life.

 

Congrats that you time your draw. Bravo. I do the training. Get your weapon out of the holster as fast as you can as long as you do it safely, THATS how it teach, of course we use level 3 retention holsters so we are all way to slow for you JEDI.

 

 

Surely since these holsters are so bad you can provide me with documented incidents where this has happened .........right?

 

 

Yes, Please - besides the 1 youtube video where we KNOW it happened already.

 

I see what the problem is now, none you have bothered to follow the links I posted, including the one from FLETC where the folks at Glynco (the federal training people who train the US marshals and the like) mention multiple documented injuries at their facility? Or the reports from IDPA clubs that have banned them following injuries? Or the fact that I mentioned two local cases ( no I won't name names).

 

But no, I guess no documented cases at all, if you don't read up I guess.

Just because you mention FLETC doesnt mean they are the end all be all of Firearms Instruction. It is what it is. Maybe we should ban unsafe people too.

Congrats that you time your draw. Bravo. I do the training. Get your weapon out of the holster as fast as you can as long as you do it safely, THATS how it teach, of course we use level 3 retention holsters so we are all way to slow for you JEDI.

 

So FLETC isn't the end all be all for training, but yours is?

Just because you mention FLETC doesnt mean they are the end all be all of Firearms Instruction. It is what it is. Maybe we should ban unsafe people too.

 

AGAIN I've quoted pretty much every one who trains the people that train the people who train police departments? People ask for documented case when FLETC documents them. I'm not really sure who you consider reputable but I've included nearly every big name training school and you are not convinced and I don't think I'll ever convince you, I. More worried about novice shooters tbh.

Congrats that you time your draw. Bravo. I do the training. Get your weapon out of the holster as fast as you can as long as you do it safely, THATS how it teach, of course we use level 3 retention holsters so we are all way to slow for you JEDI.

 

Ok, so behaving in a manner to achieve equal safety in performance, would you choose a holster that is faster for the same degree of safety, or slower? They are within $5 of each other street price.

Just because you mention FLETC doesnt mean they are the end all be all of Firearms Instruction. It is what it is. Maybe we should ban unsafe people too.

 

We DO ban unsafe people, at least form the ranges I'm a member of when we catch them. Your point? Do the ofrces of law enforcement NOT take action against those officers who are a safety problem?

sigh.. did you watch the video.. my trigger finger can NOT physically get in the trigger guard..

IT IS TOO LONG.. watch the video.. try to understand..

 

with that said..

in your vision of a "fast draw" saving your life.. how is it going down..

how is that extra millisecond of speed saving you?

do you pace off 10 steps turn and fire?

or are you "outdrawing" the guy who is already pointed a loaded gun in your face.. or has a knife stuck up against your back..

 

THINK ABOUT CARRYING A GUN IN THE CONTEXT OF REAL WORLD SELF DEFENSE...

 

if a criminal sticks a loaded gun in your face.. and you use your ultra fast quick draw.. my bet would be your brains are now on the sidewalk..

 

the only time I am "going for a gun" is if it is going to increase my chance of survival.. and in those situations having a fraction of a second faster draw time is not going to do much..

 

please describe to me how you have "trained" to deploy guns ultra fast to save the day..

in a real life or death situation.. the ability to shoot one handed from your back is going to be a much better skill than your steel plate champion quick draw..

How is slower better? If you can maintain the same level of safety and control, how is a slower holster better? How can getting a weapon out faster hurt? Answer that!

 

How are you going to draw weak handed when you have to push a button?

 

In evey instance, there is a better holster to use. There is not one area where the serpa excels, not one. so why get it when there are better ones for the same price

sigh.. did you watch the video.. my trigger finger can NOT physically get in the trigger guard..

IT IS TOO LONG.. watch the video.. try to understand..

 

We watched your video, at that speed the holster could be made from pit vipers and rusty razor blades and you could draw the gun safely. Try it under stress or read what the trainers I referenced think and know happens under stress.