I had heard in a course that .38 special wadcutters are useful defense rounds. That they behave on impact similar to a hollow point round by deformation. And since they are not as restricted as hollow points they could be, for example, stored in your trunk.

 

Also that they are very accurate. Thoughts?

Actually the old trick was to load hollowbase wadcutters upside down, for defensive purposes.

I had heard in a course that .38 special wadcutters are useful defense rounds. That they behave on impact similar to a hollow point round by deformation. And since they are not as restricted as hollow points they could be, for example, stored in your trunk.

 

Also that they are very accurate. Thoughts?

 

There are offerings from Hornady and Remington that have a polymer tip so the ammo isn't actually a HP but acts like one when used. If that helps.

So what I described is false?

So what I described is false?

 

Not completely, but not as effective, it is a long reach, bob has a good answer to the solution...

Take a look at Corbon PowRball and Hornady Critical Defense for non-NJ defined "hollow point / dum-dum" self defense rounds.

If you got nothing else sure use them. But I'd think a purpose designed HP bullet is gonna perform a lot better.

My point was that, "...he heard in a course..." and my feeling was they were referring to what I said - hollowbase wadcutters loaded upside down (in effect, a huge hollowpoint). So from a legal standpoint, you're still in the soup.

 

The better alternatives were mentioned, although those that posted forgot Federal EFMJ - which is now available in a variety of models with new names - but the concept is the same, a covered nose with a polymer plug underneath. The three mentioned in the letter to the NJSP as NOT being hollowpoints are: CorBon PowrBall / Hornady Critical Defense / Federal EFMJ

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

A wadcutter acts like a HP............? I don't think so.

The benefits of a wadcutter are the sharp edges of the face cut through the target rather than push organs away and deflect off bones like a round ogive....They punch a hole much like they do in paper and the round stays together delivering maximum ft/lbs due to the flat surface of the round. I like Buffalo Bore and carry them often.

 

Also, the wound isn't as likely to close up as would a wound from a FMJ....more blood loss faster.

A wadcutter acts like a HP............? I don't think so.

 

As I have said, twice now, a HB wadcutter loaded upside down is very effective

As I have said, twice now, a HB wadcutter loaded upside down is very effective

 

Isn't that basically a HP without an actual tapered point?

I had heard in a course that .38 special wadcutters are useful defense rounds. That they behave on impact similar to a hollow point round by deformation. And since they are not as restricted as hollow points they could be, for example, stored in your trunk.

 

Also that they are very accurate. Thoughts?

 

 

 

"Stored in your trunk" as in leaving them there indefinitely? I'm not sure that's a good idea regardless of what ammo you're using. As long as your transporting hollow-points under the guidance of the law, you can transport them as part of the exceptions in 2C:39-6.

Actually the old trick was to load hollowbase wadcutters upside down, for defensive purposes.

 

 

Loaded some of these for a ConRail Cop years ago. Bad Guy came off a box car with a crowbar and he shot him in the shoulder while he was falling back. Bad Guy dissapeared and showed up in Jersey City Med Ctr a day later. Brought the LEO in to ID him. He was afraid it may have been a "not good" shoot. Turns out the BG was a Convicted cop killer.

The doc told the LEO " don't worry he's not using that arm any more".

 

Inverted holow base wadcutters work.

Hollow base wadcutters are better than FMJ because while they probably wont expand (too slow) they cut the wound channel instead of just squeezing through, more blood loss as previously mentioned.

 

Upside-down, I think in gellatin they dont penetrate enough, but I'de still say they are as good or a little better than a correctly facing one.

 

The best would be a designated defense round, not just because it will be more effective but because the prosecution wont say you reloaded your rounds specifically to cause pain blah blah blah.

Hollow base wadcutters are better than FMJ because while they probably wont expand (too slow) they cut the wound channel instead of just squeezing through, more blood loss as previously mentioned.

 

Upside-down, I think in gellatin they dont penetrate enough, but I'de still say they are as good or a little better than a correctly facing one.

 

The best would be a designated defense round, not just because it will be more effective but because the prosecution wont say you reloaded your rounds specifically to cause pain blah blah blah.

 

+1

From the test results I remember seeing years ago Hollow Base vs Regular Wadcutter made essentially no difference.....little if any expansion but the round stayed together for max penetration and cut a nice hole / wound channel......always wondered why some Ammo Manufacture didn't load Wadcutters up to their full potential.......Buffalo Bores are for me.........

From the test results I remember seeing years ago Hollow Base vs Regular Wadcutter made essentially no difference.....little if any expansion but the round stayed together for max penetration and cut a nice hole / wound channel......always wondered why some Ammo Manufacture didn't load Wadcutters up to their full potential.......Buffalo Bores are for me.........

 

The reference to hollow base wadcutters was loading them inverted. Open cavity out. Mega expansion.

About shooting bullets backwards...

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot50.htm

 

About shooting bullets backwards...

 

http://www.theboxotr.../docs/bot50.htm

 

 

Off topic but Very Important. Loading Jacketed bullets, regardless of who reccomended it, is not a good practice. There have been reports of the jackets being left in the barrel after firing. I don't really understand how but the follow up shot would be catastrophic.

Just adding onto the hollow base wadcutter bullets being loaded upside-down conversation that this thread has turned into.

A wadcutter is a very good SD bullet for the following reasons:

 

1. The bullet is already in an efficient shape. A hollowpoint needs to expand a bit before it gets in the shape of a wadcutter.

2. Even at target velocities (725-750 fps) it will penetrate more than 14" of ballistic gel.

3. If you're using a lightweight J frame it is much easier to control than a +P round giving you greater accuracy and quick recovery for follow up shots. The same goes for someone who may be recoil sensitive in a larger revolver.

 

The problem with a wadcutter is not the shape but a higher velocity would make it much better. Back in the 70s I remember manufacturers offered a target load at about 750 fps and a standard load at 850 fps or so with a wadcutter bullet. If you want to crank up the velocity you need to use a flat base wadcutter as a HBWC can blow out the base leaving a ring of lead in your barrel.

 

Reversing a HBWC for massive expansion (moreso with a swaged bullet) can work. When it works it works well as Old School related. The problem is if one side of the nose of the bullet hits something hard (button, belt buckle, bone etc) on the way in, it can collapse that big hollowpoint. At the very least you wind up making the bullet a solid and at the worst cause the bullet to tumble early limiting penetration. These are some of the results I got when I tested reversed HBWC back in the 70s and mirrored results Jim Cirillo got.

 

Jim was always looking for the "magic bullet". Most of the designs he came up with looked like...a wadcutter. Some of these had a cup point to give a bit of expansion. He tried (at least once that I know of) a flat nosed wadcutter in a 45 ACP in a 1911 single loaded directly into the chamber backed up by IIRC Super Vel hollowpoints in the magazine while working in NYPD's Stakeout Squad.

 

I'll use factory wadcutters in a J frame as a SD round. Are there better things out there? Maybe, maybe not.

GRIZ:

 

How many on here have no idea who Jim Cirillo was, what the stake-out squad was (although that's self explanatory - but their exploits aren't) and what Super Vel was. Only us greybeards.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

I realize what you're saying. I had to explain to someone who Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton were.

 

I guess that shows my age but this is a case where Google is your friend.

GRIZ:

 

How many on here have no idea who Jim Cirillo was, what the stake-out squad was (although that's self explanatory - but their exploits aren't) and what Super Vel was. Only us greybeards.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I do, does that make me old?

I do, does that make me old?

 

No ray it makes you extremely knowledgable.

No ray it makes you extremely knowledgable.

 

Wasn't his son on the first season of "Handguns" on the Sportsmans channel?

Wasn't his son on the first season of "Handguns" on the Sportsmans channel?

 

Not sure didn't see it.

Not sure didn't see it.

 

The host had the same last name, had a New York accent and liked revolvers. HAD TO BE

GRIZ:

 

How many on here have no idea who Jim Cirillo was, what the stake-out squad was (although that's self explanatory - but their exploits aren't) and what Super Vel was. Only us greybeards.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Hey Bob- I still have some once fired Super-Vel cases if you ever decide to load anything crazy hot.

Hey Bob- I still have some once fired Super-Vel cases if you ever decide to load anything crazy hot.

 

I still have some Super Vel loaded ammo