Submitted paperwork for three PP's on 2/27. Called to follow up first time today and was told work hadn't verified, and that the PD was "...waiting on your neighbors ". The delay at work I believe, as it is a black hole for things like this, but I made an issue of the "neighbors" requirement. Even though I agreed to supply two neighbors' names and phone numbers the last time I put in for PP's(largely because I was assured by the detective that it would expedite things, yet it still took nearly four months), I told him that I'm not going to do it as it wasn't required by law.

 

This did not go over well, and he mumbled something about how everything goes through Sgt., then Lt. and up to Chief. A complete non-reply if I ever heard one. I don't think these guys are used to getting any push back on their arbitrary "requirements".

 

I'm just curious if anyone else in town has had similar issues?

...but I made an issue of the "neighbors" requirement. Even though I agreed to supply two neighbors' names and phone numbers the last time I put in for PP's(largely because I was assured by the detective that it would expedite things, yet it still took nearly four months), I told him that I'm not going to do it as it wasn't required by law.

 

Are you talking two more names beyond the two references required on the application (STS-033)?

Typical obstructionist tactics to avoid the law. This is why so many choose "alternate marketing channels" to purchase firearms.

@PizzaBob: Sorry, should have been clearer on that: yes, in ADDITION to my two refs, who returned their forms the first week of March. As for the work verification, the officer offered to fax another form to my agency, an option I'm not crazy about as the fax is shared by the entire 90 person office.

Your neighbors have no right to know your personal info. I would even argue it could make you a target of criminals. What if you dont know your neighbors or they are all jerks.

 

If I switched my law practice to just being a surrogate to **** at local police for not following the law, I would be rich.

Your neighbors have no right to know your personal info. I would even argue it could make you a target of criminals.

 

^^ This. I don't want my neighbors knowing this stuff.

I submitted yesterday and was told the new sgt and Lt. are real strict. Hopefully it doesn't change things too much.

I submitted yesterday and was told the new sgt and Lt. are real strict. Hopefully it doesn't change things too much.

 

 

Did you ask what's that's supposed to mean? If there's no lawful reason for them to deny you, you can't be denied. They can be the biggest pr*cks in your county and it shouldn't matter.

@PizzaBob: Sorry, should have been clearer on that: yes, in ADDITION to my two refs, who returned their forms the first week of March. As for the work verification, the officer offered to fax another form to my agency, an option I'm not crazy about as the fax is shared by the entire 90 person office.

 

Make sure that you let the NJ2AS know about this. If the police tell your neighbors why you are being investigated, that violates confidentiality, here...

 

NJAC 13:54-1.15 Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law

or this chapter to have access to such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.

 

While your PD can hide behind the requirement to perform a background investigation, it is not up to you to do their job for them and supply them with your neighbors names and phone numbers. If you are on good terms with your neighbors, you should approach them to find out what the police ask them and if the police disclosed their reason for asking. Dependent on what you learn, you can decide how far you want to push it. If they did disclose, a sit-down with the chief or a town official would be the least action I'd take.

 

Good on you for not knuckling under the second time around.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

PS: As for your employment verification - Are the investigating officer's hands painted-on? He can't pick-up the phone and call your HR Dept to verify?

Most of my neighbors have lived on my block and have known me since I was a child. They are happy someone has firearms. I guess I can now be head of neighborhood watch. Oh wait we see how that went for Zimmerman.

 

The permit stuff and background process is such a waste for me. It really makes no sense. I get checked every year by my job and I have to pass stricter rules because of all my airport, port, and federal clearances for certain access. So stupid.

 

 

 

Did you ask what's that's supposed to mean? If there's no lawful reason for them to deny you, you can't be denied. They can be the biggest pr*cks in your county and it shouldn't matter.

 

He told me they added a few more checks before approval. I really wasn't listening. I am going to wait and see how long mine take and if it starts to take too long I will go and talk to them. I can get more info out of them than the average person could.

My god, what are these people thinking? Bring it up to NJ2AS before more departments decide to do this. Furthermore, call the State Police and tell them the BS requirements they are putting you through.

 

The legal requirements are just the two forms and what is on them.... not notarized affidavit by your neighbors as to when you take a poop.

Wow, that sounds totally illegal. If you really need to spend $$, get yourself a good lawyer.

Due to high costs& time of lawsuits, the town may back down.

just call the njsp, they well straighten it out, they will tell them what is the right procedure, njsp is very good at this...

just call the njsp, they well straighten it out, they will tell them what is the right procedure, njsp is very good at this...

 

Local PD: *Picks up phone.*

NJSP: This is the NJSP, how are you doing today?

Local PD: Fine, how are you?

NJSP: We have a report of you asking for additional references in regards to P2P, this is not the procedure.

Local PD: We don't care...

NJSP: Straighten the fugg out bitches or we will find you and iron you...

 

-----

 

I had to get the NJSP involved once in my town, I'm like a celebrity when I walk into town hall now, hell they have the forms waiting for me.

@Anthony: you don't indicate what town you live in, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that I won't be treated like a celebrity once I've called the Staties on the Bayonne P.D.

 

I'm drafting a letter now to the chief of police and the mayor concerning these arbitrary requirements for PP's and then I'll give them one week to respond. After that I'll contact the NJSP for their intervention. I'm going to copy NJ2AS on all correspondence too.

 

Thanks all!

 

Scott

I am sure they won't be too happy. At least the new bosses won't. They guys who handle the paperwork might as it's less work for them.

Since you have aqcuired P2P's before is it just a matter of getting the references and the PD signing off? You don't have to be finger printed again do you? I'm thinking of applying for a few more permits in West Orange.

since you have aqcuired P2P's before is it just a matter of getting references and the PD signing off? You don't have to be finger printed again do you? I'm thinking of applying for a few more permits in West Orange.

 

No the $18 non-criminal background check (SP212A) is done in leiu of fingerprinting. It is a yellow form and can only be obtained from your local PD (or nearest NJSP barracks if your town does not have a PD).

Ok Pizza Bob, Thanks. I guess it just never ends. There will always be some kind of delay.

Well, my letters to the Chief and the Mayor went out today, with Jack Fiamingo of NJ2AS copied in, so we shall see what we shall see. At this point I don't even care about any possible repercussions arising from this as I'm pretty damned sick and tired of being treated like an annoyance, or a cretin even, because of my desire to purchase and master the use of handguns.

 

Okay, let me get back to checking the PA real estate listings on Trulia now.....

Well, my letters to the Chief and the Mayor went out today, with Jack Fiamingo of NJ2AS copied in, so we shall see what we shall see. At this point I don't even care about any possible repercussions arising from this as I'm pretty damned sick and tired of being treated like an annoyance, or a cretin even, because of my desire to purchase and master the use of handguns.

 

Okay, let me get back to checking the PA real estate listings on Trulia now.....

 

 

 

That's the best thing. Legally, they can do nothing to you. It's nice to see someone take a stand for a change. Congratulations to you. I'm sure you'll let us know how it goes.

Nice going Scott. That sounds like total BS on their part.

Well, my letters to the Chief and the Mayor went out today, with Jack Fiamingo of NJ2AS copied in, so we shall see what we shall see. At this point I don't even care about any possible repercussions arising from this as I'm pretty damned sick and tired of being treated like an annoyance, or a cretin even, because of my desire to purchase and master the use of handguns.

 

Okay, let me get back to checking the PA real estate listings on Trulia now.....

 

I'd +1 ya if I could, and if more people did this every time there was an extra form to fill out, or they tell you it will be 8 to 10 weeks and all the other BS that we as the responsible gun owners go through in this state, I think we would all be better off..

Well, my letters to the Chief and the Mayor went out today, with Jack Fiamingo of NJ2AS copied in, so we shall see what we shall see. At this point I don't even care about any possible repercussions arising from this as I'm pretty damned sick and tired of being treated like an annoyance, or a cretin even, because of my desire to purchase and master the use of handguns.

 

Okay, let me get back to checking the PA real estate listings on Trulia now.....

 

Can you PM what you said in the letter?

You have rights , don't let them step all over you. They cannot deny you if you are a good citizen, without any arrest records.

Good Luck, I hope they come to see the error of their ways.

Thanks, guys. Your support is greatly appreciated. I'll update as it becomes available.

Maybe we should move across the kull to Staten Island?

NYC gun laws ray...even worse. Though if I lived in the city I wouldn't need any permits for anything. I can buy as much as I want with my shield. Hmmm...maybe I should move