Love the resonable discussions on these forums. This question recently came up.

 

We were discussing an issue that a friend claims recently occurred. Apparently, NICS approved a purchase on the 29th day following a previous purchase. Is there anything that can or should be done to avoid a problem? Can a purchase such as this be "undone?" The dealer said that NICS has an earlier date for the first purchase and would not appove a 2nd purchase in NJ within 30 days.

If the 2nd purchase is made prior to the 31st day, they should be denied

Mistakes can certainly be made, but when I picked a long gun last week, my FFL had the NICS gal on speakerphone, and she immediately mentioned I was only approved for a longarm,since I had picked up a pistol 2 weeks prior, and had my date for next handgun right on the money.

I wasn't ready for such quick responses!

 

I called my friend and he confirmed that NICS told the dealer that their date for the 1st gun is 3 days before he got the first gun, so according to NICS' records, the 2nd purchase was made 32 days after the first. The purchae date on the permit of the first gun (which is the date he got the first gun) is 3 days later than what NICS is showing.

 

Since copies of the permits (which show 29 days between purchases) go to the State Police, he's concerned that the 29 days will be detected and he's trying to determine if he should do anything to set the record straight.

 

Thanks.

Don't worry, if there's an issue the person can expect a visit from the police, usually for just a stern warning. That's what I've been told happens if you purchase a pistol before you're supposed to.

Thanks. I'll tell him.

I wasn't ready for such quick responses!

 

I called my friend and he confirmed that NICS told the dealer that their date for the 1st gun is 3 days before he got the first gun, so according to NICS' records, the 2nd purchase was made 32 days after the first. The purchae date on the permit of the first gun (which is the date he got the first gun) is 3 days later than what NICS is showing.

 

Since copies of the permits (which show 29 days between purchases) go to the State Police, he's concerned that the 29 days will be detected and he's trying to determine if he should do anything to set the record straight.

 

Thanks.

 

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

I did a transfer on day 30 the other day and it went through. I normally do 31 days (30 in between purchases as per the law), but asked if it was okay prior to giving the information.

 

I always thought that the Data Reduction Unit (the place where all permits are sent) gave the acquisition date on the permit to the NICS Unit to keep track, but it appears that NICS is keeping track when the check is done. Maybe not, because there is an issue with that. If a NICS check was done on July 1st, and the purchaser picked up the handgun on July 5th, then he could attempt to acquire another handgun on August 3rd and be approved by NICS, but in essence he would be breaking the law.

"approved by NICS, but in essence he would be breaking the law."

 

That's the issue I was trying to get some guidance for. If such a purchase is (mistakenly) made, is there anything the buyer should do to avoid a possible criminal charge?

I had a NICS denied because NICS recorded the previous purchase date incorrectly. I received a call from the NJSP and was given a warning (well more like a heads up). I explained my situation and all was ok.

Does the timer start on "All clear" from NICS, or is it from the firearm is actually picked up?

 

In the past I paid for a gun but couldn't wait at the shop for the check to go through. The shop completed the check, and I picked the gun up 2 days later.

When would the timer start.

Does the timer start on "All clear" from NICS, or is it from the firearm is actually picked up?

 

In the past I paid for a gun but couldn't wait at the shop for the check to go through. The shop completed the check, and I picked the gun up 2 days later.

When would the timer start.

 

Apparently from the above the timer starts at the NICS check. But there's NOTHING in the law clarifying any of that (of course).

Looks like the DRU isn't using the P2P info directly, and is going for the easier to get NICS data. I'm shocked , I tell you. Round up the usual suspects. Sort of tells you something about the paperwork intensive process that is the P2P and the lack of planning of implementation at all for OGAM. But we all knew that anyway. Now that its been brought up publicly, I'd expect some sort of 'wisdom' from the NJAG office regarding this issue, and it won't be to ours or NJ FFLs benefit.

 

 

 

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

I did a transfer on day 30 the other day and it went through. I normally do 31 days (30 in between purchases as per the law), but asked if it was okay prior to giving the information.

 

I always thought that the Data Reduction Unit (the place where all permits are sent) gave the acquisition date on the permit to the NICS Unit to keep track, but it appears that NICS is keeping track when the check is done. Maybe not, because there is an issue with that. If a NICS check was done on July 1st, and the purchaser picked up the handgun on July 5th, then he could attempt to acquire another handgun on August 3rd and be approved by NICS, but in essence he would be breaking the law.

One gun per month. Stupid law, in a stupid state.

One gun per month. Stupid law, in a stupid state.

 

+1000

 

I was about to post the same thing. Just another law to punish the legal gun owner.

 

Does anyone know if anybody has ever been charged for making the purchases too close together?

The situation is a little clearer now - but just a little.

 

It seems what happened is that a NICS check was done last month and the gun was picked up 2 days later - the date recorded on the permit was 2 days after the NICS check.

 

By mistake, the second gun was bought 31 days after the first NICS check, which was approved by NICS. However, the date on the permit of the 2nd gun, a copy of which gets sent to the NJSP and issuing Police Department, shows a purchase 29 days after the first.

 

Is there anything that should be done to show that this was done in error, such as immediately returning the gun. The dealer feels that the NICS dates should apply but the NJSP and an aggressive prosecutor may rule differently.

Was it the same seller that delivered it to him? The law says:

A dealer shall not knowingly deliver more than one handgun to any person within any 30-day period.

If it was a mistake, i.e. "not knowingly" and because NICS approved it, the seller is in the clear.

 

The law also states:

Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period

Your friend broke the law. I do not know what the penalty is for this statute. I do not see an exception for not knowingly doing it. But he may use the excuse as stated above. NICS approved it. Good luck.

 

I am hesitant to tell you to tell him to STFU and wait. I also do not want to tell you to have him draw attention to this issue with the NJSP. That is a decision for him to make.

 

BTW, NICS rules do not apply. A NICS check is good for 30 days. If one did not return for a handgun for 3 weeks after the check, can one wait 10 days and get another handgun? I don't think so.

your friend should get a sledge hammer and some big rocks and start practicing making little rocks out of the big rocks

I always thought that the nics call was supposed to be at the point of sale unless the buyer is not ready to take the gun home at that time...such as in purchasing (paying in full, or partial) while waiting for permits to be issued. There is really no reason for the dealer to call Nics unless the gun is going to be taken home that day. I alway count to 31 starting the day after a purchase just to be sure.

Man this state makes us all so paranoid. I hate it.

There are a few reasons one does not leave with the firearm the day NICS is done. The NICS check could have been faxed in because the phones were down, etc. One can not expect to stick around for hours not knowing when the response will be given. Or perhaps the NICS check comes back pending, therefore the firearm can not be transferred right then.

There are a few reasons one does not leave with the firearm the day NICS is done. The NICS check could have been faxed in because the phones were down, etc. One can not expect to stick around for hours not knowing when the response will be given. Or perhaps the NICS check comes back pending, therefore the firearm can not be transferred right then.

Makes good sense.

For counting the days in months such as August, if the last purchase was August 1st is the next purchase good to go on August 31 or September 1?

So then if I get issued my 2 P2P then I can only pick up one hand gun??? Gee Wiz sir can I please have some more??(in Oliver Twists voice)

So then if I get issued my 2 P2P then I can only pick up one hand gun??? Gee Wiz sir can I please have some more??(in Oliver Twists voice)

 

Yes, but the permits are good for 90 days so you will have time to use both before they expire.

When does the OGAM start in this scenario. (Purchase from out of state - Gunbroker deal)

 

Paid for gun on day #1

Gun delivered to the NJ FFL (NICS STARTED)on day #10

NICS approved on Day #24

 

Does OGAM start on Day 1, Day 10, or Day 24?

Day 24 is your OGAM day #1.

Day 24 is your OGAM day #1 #0.

Fixed

YIkes

 

So it's more like one gun every other month.

Is it possible to retroactively apply for a Multiple Handgun Exemption?

how about this situation?

 

NICS approved on Day #24

Gun picked up on Day #30

 

Does OGAM start on Day 24 or Day 30?

It is when you take possession, i.e. the date of purchase on the permit.