I haven't been to the bullet hole since GFH training.. When are they quietest on the weekends? Is showing up at opening a good strategy?

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

I went last monday around 6pm, and there were maybe 2 ports being used. I've also been there on a sunday at 3pm a few times, and it was empty.

I respectfully disagree. Overpriced is overpriced.

 

It wasn't Drez that commented about RTSP saying "Open your own range", it was me. And actually, the very same attitude was displayed by them when someone mentioned being offended by the Hebrew Scroll on the front door (sorry, I don't know the name of it). It was, "It's our range, we will do as we choose, if you don't like it spend 2 million of your own money and open one yourself". Paraphrasing, but you get the drift. I believe that was a printed response, btw. And yes, it's great that other ranges are opening up, however I hope they are listening to and reading these threads as eventually folks will get fed up. They don't need to just open, they need to stay open.

 

C

 

Once again, overpriced is all relative.. It is the same as people driving 50 miles out of the way to save $10 on a gun, but will spend $15 on gas.

 

People will have to factor in the total price for the range. I know people who are members at RTSP and for them, you cannot put a price on a clean, well ventilated range. Yes, you can drive out to Fort Dix and pay $60 a year and $3 an hour, so you are saving money, however then factor in the wait times and all that goes with me.

 

It is either a good value, or a bad value.

 

Personally, I do not see the value in spending as much per hour or membership at RTSP, however it is hella far from me, and I do not shoot indoors or at public ranges for that matter.

 

As far as someone being offended for them putting up a Mizzuzah on the front door, how the hell can you be offended? It is their right to do so, nor as a Jew, would I complain for a business putting up icons of St. Mary, or a Cross or whatever at their establishment.

 

Talking about price, sure. But when no one should be offended, or even have a right to complain for someone putting up a Mizzuzah on the front door (which is where it goes), at a private establishment in a country where last I checked, we still had freedom of religion. I would be extremely pissed if someone told me that they were offended by me wearing a star of david, or putting up a Mizzuzah on the door. They did not put up the Mizzuzah on the door for anyone but themselves.

The example of the Mizzuzah was simply an example of their attitude toward those that are criticizing any of the range practices. I've overheard them say that as a fallback excuse when being criticized about pricing on ammo as well. Essentially it's a bull$%it attitude toward those that pay their bills.

 

C

The example of the Mizzuzah was simply an example of their attitude toward those that are criticizing any of the range practices.

 

So, you support anti-Semitism?

So, you support anti-Semitism?

 

Uh, where did you get that from?

 

C

 

Uh, where did you get that from?

 

C

 

I think they are reacting to your choice of example. To be honest, it does seem to be a poor one.

 

Your point is that the range owners have a salty and unprofessional attitude when challenged on things like price, amenities, etc. These are valid gripes, IMHO. A business owner does have the prerogative to be a jerk if hey want to at the peril of their business this is true.

 

However, to clarify your point, you tell anecdote about how a customer criticizes the owner for putting a religious icon at their doorway. (Mizzuzah, crucifix, American flag perhaps). The owner tells the customer to go pound sand if they don't like it. And THIS illustrates your point? Poorly so, I think.

 

I think charges of antisemitism are a bit much, but they are a reaction to your anecdote coupled with the sentiment of ,"see what dicks the owners are?"

 

I just think it was a poor example to illustrate your otherwise valid critique.

Uh, where did you get that from?

 

C

 

From the quote, which I took directly from your post. If someone approached me as a business owner and told me that they were offended by my choice of religious figurine, talisman, symbol, diety, whatever, I too would tell them to go pound sand.

 

As far as pricing, momma told me that if I have nothing nice to say, I should shop elsewhere, with a coupon, cause that's how momma rolls.

My point of the Mezzuzah was because it was written. My other points are merely those that I have overheard. Directly. However direct, they can't be referenced.

 

My apologies if you didn't like my example.

 

C

One of the great things about America (among many) is that its citizens have the ability to vote on a business, either with their wallet or with their feet. While Topher and a few others are unhappy with RTSP, there are many, many others of us who find the place to be just fine. Evidence for this is the large crowd RTSP attracts, which has led them to begin plans for a massive 12 port extension to their original range.

 

I have been shooting there since they opened, and while the crowds can be a bit of an inconvenience, I find the clean, airy, state of the art facility to be worth the slightly over a half hour drive each way that I make to get there. I agree that their prices for ammo are frightfully expensive. And the cost of rentals, when one factors in the ammo charges, can be considerable. OTOH, how often would one of us rent from them, and to what range are you making a comparison, as I know of no other in northern New Jersey that offers rentals?

 

I consider the $250 that I paid as an original member (which included five guest passes valued at $10 each) to have been an incredible bargain. I get over there a few times a month, particularly over the winter, and have far exceeded my break even point. Plus, I find the owners to be genuinely good guys, who have committed to a frighteningly expensive business proposition to do something they love. They have steadily built a solid inventory of firearms (and other merchandise) which they offer at what I consider to be reasonable prices.

 

So Topher, with no disrespect to you and others who do not like the place, I would say that RTSP has developed a successful business plan that appeals to a wide range of shooters, even though they have unfortunately failed to please you.

While Topher and a few others are unhappy with RTSP, there are many, many others of us who find the place to be just fine. Evidence for this is the large crowd RTSP attracts, which has led them to begin plans for a massive 12 port extension to their original range.

 

I am one of those who dislikes RTSP, but I think the large crowds could be explained by the fact that they are the new kids on the block with the newest toys. People in North Jersey who didn't want to shoot outdoors at CR, or were tired of waiting at the Bullet Hole. Found a new range, well lit, rents guns, sounds good on paper. But IMO once Luciano's range opens, I think RTSP will take a hit in business.

In my opinion, RTSP is a great range, the exceptions being the ventilation and their prices. If one doesn't mind that, it's just fine. The Bullet Hole is definitely the range for me though, it's much much closer to me (10 minutes at the most), it's cheap to shoot at (both range time and ammo prices) and it does the job. I've only been there twice to shoot so far and I choose my times wisely (Friday midday usually)...it's my range of choice for sure. I've been treated well there, bought a few supplies there this past Friday as a matter of fact and Jen was extremely helpful and nice. If I had a ton of money burning a huge hole in my pocket, I would open my own range yes, but I would certainly try to keep my customers happy and recurring by keeping my prices reasonable and my staff knowledgeable and respectful.

For the Western Morris County crowd, RTSP is the closest indoor public range and the only one in the north that rents guns. They have a captive audience. Competition from other shops may or may not change thier pricing structure.

 

It's not cheap to build anything in this state and Morris is an expensive county on top of that.

I shoot at Bullethole too. Best bang for the buck when it comes to my range needs. I'm averaging 5 sessions /year.I usually shoot with 3-4 friends and share 2 bays for $30. Been going there since Ray's on Rt 22 closed. Good to know youre enjoying it Rxbandit.

Went to the Bullet Hole for the second time yesterday with my fiance. It was her first time. We were greeted nicely quickly seen to. I had to purchase 9mm ammo at 13.99 a box which is perfectly priced for me, 5 targets and 1 hour range time total was under 50 so was kick ass. Rangemaster was active, attentive and easy going. No screaming if you make a beginers mistake and recomendations on how to remember how not to make them again. I will say, and i know it means business is good, we were lucky we got there at 11 am. They open at 10 and by 11 we got the second to the last slot. After much trepidation my fiance picked up my SPringfield 9mm and started shooting...needless to say 50 minutes later she was grinning like a little kid and asking about her own gun. They did some work on my SPringfield 9mm xdm 4.5 there the last time i was there while i waited and it was done quickly and decently priced.

I respectfully disagree. Overpriced is overpriced.

 

It wasn't Drez that commented about RTSP saying "Open your own range", it was me. And actually, the very same attitude was displayed by them when someone mentioned being offended by the Hebrew Scroll on the front door (sorry, I don't know the name of it). It was, "It's our range, we will do as we choose, if you don't like it spend 2 million of your own money and open one yourself". Paraphrasing, but you get the drift. I believe that was a printed response, btw. And yes, it's great that other ranges are opening up, however I hope they are listening to and reading these threads as eventually folks will get fed up. They don't need to just open, they need to stay open.

 

C

Topher,

The person who stated that they were offended by what was on the front door should have just turned around and walked away. What right do they have complaining about the owners religion?

Scig

I've been going to BH for years now and no issues. Though i must say, saturdays at around 12 o clock is packed. So packed that you can barely walk or find a place to stand inside the store.

 

weekdays are probably your best bet.

Have been going to BH since I started this post, going almost once every week. Have had no issues with the range nor with the people. Have never been approached by the rangemaster because I try to follow the rules. Last week, while I was there, some guy decided to try rapid fire and was kicked out. Now some people will say that he should've just been warned, some others will say that the RM should've just let it go. I'm of the opinion that if you can't follow the rules, which are posted at every port, then it's up to the place to decide what to do.

Overall it's been a great place and I'm glad it's there. Will be there tomorrow.

Merry Christmas to everyone and have a safe new year!

RxB

I was there today and had a very positive experience.

Last week, while I was there, some guy decided to try rapid fire and was kicked out.

RxB

 

You're right their posted rules do say no "rapid fire." I wish BH would try to define what exactly rapid means to them. I've never been scolded, but sometimes I try to take my follow up shots quickly (by no means what I'd think to be rapid) and I get nervous that the Range Officer is going to give me grief. I've heard that if it's more or less empty in BH and you ask the RO ahead of time they'll let you practice double/triple taps, you need to ask though and it depends on the circumstances.

 

You're right their posted rules do say no "rapid fire." I wish BH would try to define what exactly rapid means to them. I've never been scolded, but sometimes I try to take my follow up shots quickly (by no means what I'd think to be rapid) and I get nervous that the Range Officer is going to give me grief. I've heard that if it's more or less empty in BH and you ask the RO ahead of time they'll let you practice double/triple taps, you need to ask though and it depends on the circumstances.

never heard this lol and I double tap when I go there. Never said anything even with my shotgun I've double tapped

never heard this lol and I double tap when I go there. Never said anything even with my shotgun I've double tapped

 

I think it really depends on who is working the range, how crowded it is, if they recognize you from previous trips, etc. I'd like to think the older fellow who is usually working the range knows my face by now but I'm not sure.

Bullet Hole is a great place.

Reasonable prices.

No extra charge for second shooter.

ROs are friendly and reasonable.

No problems with my 74 and 5.45x39 surplus ammo.

I wish BH would try to define what exactly rapid means to them.

The only other range I've been to is RTSP and according to them, rapid fire is a shot followed by another shot within 3 seconds. By that definition, I guess double tapping would be considered rapid fire. And on that note, the guy that was shooting to my right, was actually practicing, two shots to the mid section and one to the head. The RO that day didn't say anything. I guess as long as you're not emptying a clip at a fairly fast rate, they won't bother you. But I'm not gonna be the one who's going to try to find that fine line haha

Happy shooting.

Umm - emptying a clip?

 

Perhaps you popped a cap in his ass from yer gat?

Umm - emptying a clip?

 

Perhaps you popped a cap in his ass from yer gat?

 

He might have been shooting an M1

I've been shooting at BH for several years, and for a long time nearly every week. Unless they've changed the rules, double taps are fine. Just leave a second or two between double taps and the next shot. I have a few times seen guys do rapid fire, essentially a partial mag dump. If the range officer picks it up, they will say something. I haven't seen anyone kicked for it, but that is the rule and being kicked is stated in the rules "you will be asked to leave".

My only "complaints" about the BH are two-fold:

 

1) Over-zealous rangemasters. There's one or two that are bit too "Hitler'ish". You see me there AT LEAST once a month. There's no reason to bust my balls. I don't wave the muzzle outside the port, i don't rapid fire, and I don't look like I found my firearm in a dumpster on MLK Blvd in Newark. I can recount one occasion where I was shooting my 7.62 Saiga Conversion. I was firing maybe 1 round ever 2 seconds. Rangemaster comes up "I'm going to need you to slow it down..." OK then. Despite the fact every round was in a 1/2" group. It's only ONE particular rangemaster too. Even one that was initially a little nazi, is now not bad.

 

2) It gets busy. Hey...god bless them. It's the only range in the area.

 

Other than that, can't complain. Owners seem nice. I've bought firearms from them before.