Yep, with any EBR , there is always a chance of prosecution. The DA can claim "flash hider" , defendant claims "muzzle brake", both bring in expert witnesses, jury decides. At a minimum it would cost the poor victim tons of $$$. Its always best to stack stuff in your favor, so if a muzzle device is ambiguous to us "gun nuts", you may want to change it for something more solid. Good thing the FS2K has the whole thing covered by not having any other evil features, so technically a person can stick on a flash hider 12 ft long.

 

 

So if Feinstein's AWB 2.0 is passed --and FN adds an ATF-certified muzzle brake, it has 0 (zero) evil features so everybody will be happy if every household in the US has an FS2000 in the closet!

 

Does anyone know when Dick's Sporting Goods will have them in stock?

That's a "thumbhole" stock....wouldn't that count as one of Feinstein's "evil features"?

 

the Muzzle device in question. =)

 

Thats a Nice flash hider

under Feinsteins bill.... they filled in the loophole about the grip... they define the grip as an evil feature, not pistol grip. Grip can be anything, thumbhole stock, pistol grip, stock grip, or anything to hold onto the rifle.

Yup, the Feinstein's grand disarmament bill will basically make all semi-auto rifles illegal. Well any that you can hold in your hand with a gripping surface. The industry will have to come up with a new way to hold SA rifles. Perhaps hooks or some cool cyborg looking clamps that we would have to clamp to our arms.

or..... no muzzle breaks.

or..... no muzzle breaks. brakes

 

True, but Feinstein's bill was written by a bunch of 22 year old interns late at night over cold pizza. I doubt it will pass even through the Senate, or at least anything close to that bill will pass as it's written.

 

If anything is going to make its way through, it will be universal background checks, mental health records, and (groan!) magazine capacity (again). All IMO.

 

I still think it's hilarious that the FS2000 -- with an ATF certified muzzle brake -- has 0 (zero) evil features as defined by AWB 1.0.

 

Maybe they need to define an "AW" as something that's "black and scary" although I see that the FS2000 is available in a choice of colors!

True, but Feinstein's bill was written by a bunch of 22 year old interns late at night over cold pizza. I doubt it will pass even through the Senate, or at least anything close to that bill will pass as it's written.

 

If anything is going to make its way through, it will be universal background checks, mental health records, and (groan!) magazine capacity (again). All IMO.

 

I still think it's hilarious that the FS2000 -- with an ATF certified muzzle brake -- has 0 (zero) evil features as defined by AWB 1.0.

 

Maybe they need to define an "AW" as something that's "black and scary" although I see that the FS2000 is available in a choice of colors!

 

I doubt it was written by 22 year olds, but even if it was.... you are not giving it enough credit.

 

All of the bullet buttons, thumbhole stocks were loopholes to take advantage of the poorly written bill that was before. Same with the variants. This one, god forbid it passes, is quite explicit, and irons out all of those loopholes. the AW list is also quite extensive to even include less common AK variants, ie the Vepr.

 

Don't take it lightly.

 

They did not think NY can get 7 round mag limits either. 7 round mag limits wipe out effectively over 90% of all semi automatic handguns.

Anyone know anyone, ever heard of anyone-maybe their mother's brothers teacher's uncle's bastard stepchild who was prosecuted or arrested over a flashider?

 

I also explained that even if it was a hider, the FS2K technically does not have a pistol grip so a hider would have been the other permitted "evil"

 

 

Sure looks like a pistol grip

Anyone know anyone, ever heard of anyone-maybe their mother's brothers teacher's uncle's bastard stepchild who was prosecuted or arrested over a flashider?

 

No I don't but that doesn't mean that I want to walk around with something that will give the State a chance at locking me up for 7 years if they feel all of a sudden they don't like me.

 

All it would take is a neighbor calling in a "tip" that they saw you aiming a gun at someone, or that you have an "arsenal" in your home. I'm sure most NJ "progressive" judges would be happy to sign the search warrant.

 

That's what these laws were designed to accomplish. The govt wants tons of ambiguous and complex gun laws so that at any time, they can find something illegal (even remotely) with every gun owner. This way if they don't like you, or you give them trouble... the least that will happen to you is bankruptcy defending yourself in court.

Sure looks like a pistol grip

 

Show me a pistol that has a grip like a FS2K. Looks more like a handle to me.

I don't take any stupid thing that Congress tries to do lightly -- but I was smiling because any ban - in effect - must either outlaw all firearms more advanced than the one that Hawkeye carried in "Last of the Mohicans ", or allow something that looks and functions like the FS2000 since it is a "perfectly normal featureless firearm".

 

As I count it only 8 states & DC are 2A unfriendly, but the other 42 states are not 2A unfriendly. That offers us some protection from the Senate. The court-ordered gerrymandering of congressional districts offers some protection from the House.

 

New Jersey is another story.

 

I'll admit I didn't think they'd be stupid enough to pass Obamacare ... but betting on the collective intelligence of Congress is generally a poor bet. At least Obamacare is proving that the "Law of Unintended Consequences" is true once and for all.

Wow, this thread has been all over the place. Doubt that anybody is still reading this, but thought I'd weigh-in anyway. First, I agree with Paul that the whole argument is moot since it is the only evil feature - if indeed it is a flash hider.

 

Second - I doubt strongly that the BATFE would even offer an opinion. A brake was defined under the sunsetted federal AWB. Since there is no law regarding FH v. Brake, unlikely BATFE would offer a legal opinion since we are ONLY dealing with state law.

 

Given that, state law, as was pointed out, does not define either what a FH or a brake is, or what constitutes the difference between the two. The open end v closed end is a "rule-of-thumb" we use. I posit that any muzzle device that has a larger than bore chamber (an expansion chamber if you will) and then a restriction to near bore size is a muzzle brake/compensator, regardless of what diameter the ultimate muzzle is. I don't own the FN in question and have only seen/fondled them in the LGS, but never really paid any attention to the muzzle device. From the picture it appears that there is a greater than bore diameter portion of the muzzle device which then is restricted to slightly greater than bore size, which then, again, opens up to the greater than bore size opening at the muzzle. The chamber allows the gases to expand, the restriction is the actual brake and it is irrelevant what diameter the device is at the end. If that is not the design, then nevermind.

 

Just my $.02

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

I'm still reading this Pizza Bob.. =]

Just wanted to give a quick update. I called FNUSA again this morning and was again told that the muzzle device by their design a is muzzle brake and not a hider.

 

I asked again a few different times (just to be sure my question wasn't misunderstood) and got told off... Great customer service..

To be fair, maybe they're getting tired of being asked constantly.

 

Anyway, I'll give all an update with what happens.

Appreciate everyone for their feedback and insight. If anything, I hope this generated some meaningful discussion... Or not..

Cheers.

Show me a pistol that has a grip like a FS2K. Looks more like a handle to me.

 

"Pistol" as in firearm really is not the issue.

 

"If" I were to purchase one of these I would follow the sames rules that I follow with any AR (still talking Jersey here).

So I would want to be assured it had nothing or a no question brake.

 

The thumb hole stock is being addressed in just about every bill coming down the pike.

 

Some fodder:

Pistol grips are a defining feature in United States gun law. A forward pistol grip on a pistol is restricted under the National Firearms Act. Pistol grips which protrude below the weapon and are not integrated with the shoulder stock (i.e. as part of a thumbhole stock) are currently regulated in some states and was regulated by the now expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

 

Doesn't matter what we really think or believe, i can boil down to what the local LEO thinks and then what the prosecutor follows through with.

Ask Tom Cassidy what he thinks.

http://www.sussexcountyjustice.com/guns.html

 

 

I don't remember what case defined it but it was loosely described as a stock - grip whatever that allowed one handed firing.

Falls along the same lines as a pistol having a forward grip or barrel shroud - that makes it a too short rifle.

 

The FFL and the OP are both correct. One is protecting his butt over a possibly vague law not being defined in the NJAC and the other is trying to be within the law.