Delta at Waco:

 

 

http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/takedown.html

... the arsonist San Bernadino sheriffs dept....

 

Seriously. WTF is up with tear gas cans? You know as soon as one comes out, something is burning down. Can't the manufacturer be sued for a defect?

 

On the other hand, I have heard the device used in this case referred to as a "pyrotechnic" or "incindiary" tear gas can. Is this different than a "usual" tear gas cannister? How many different flavors of these things are there?

What people are missing here is in their desire to kill the bad guy no one realized he fled into someone's home. I know this is a vacation area and the majority of these homes were not occupied by their owners but what if the home owners were in that home when Dorner busted in. There was no consideration for any innocents that might have been in that home. I don't know about you but if someone fleeing from the cops barged into my home I would hope they would think about their actions before burning my house down.

What people are missing here is in their desire to kill the bad guy no one realized he fled into someone's home. I know this is a vacation area and the majority of these homes were not occupied by their owners but what if the home owners were in that home when Dorner busted in. There was no consideration for any innocents that might have been in that home. I don't know about you but if someone fleeing from the cops barged into my home I would hope they would think about their actions before burning my house down.

 

Exactly. Wouldn't it be cool if they found three skeletons in the mess? Then what? Justifiable collateral damage, just like the two people that got shot up in LA?

This is LEO out of control and working off emotion. Everything in this country now happens based on emotion instead of reason.

I don't disagree with this statement, especially the latter part. LAPD shooting up those vehicles is totally ridiculous. However, like I said I am not too upset over the burning of the house considering the target was inside, alone, and actively engaging the police with automatic gun fire. I guess instead of burning the house down they could have just sent 10,000 rounds into it which would have destroyed it also.

 

Navy Seals and Delta at Waco: (just to get you started, you can do your own digging)

http://prorev.com/waco.htm

Monitoring the situation is a far cry from "calling in the SEALS". And like I said, these two situations are completely different. And I think most people agree that WACO was a disaster on all sides.

 

Delta at Waco:

http://www.wizardsof...o/takedown.html

LOL, Excuse me if I don't consider that an actual source. Not to mention I see no mention of Navy SEALS.

What people are missing here is in their desire to kill the bad guy no one realized he fled into someone's home. I know this is a vacation area and the majority of these homes were not occupied by their owners but what if the home owners were in that home when Dorner busted in. There was no consideration for any innocents that might have been in that home. I don't know about you but if someone fleeing from the cops barged into my home I would hope they would think about their actions before burning my house down.

Actually, you[we] don't know what they did or did not do to ascertain whether he was alone in the house. They had in fact talked to the owner of the house. For all we know they also used thermal imaging.

Exactly. Wouldn't it be cool if they found three skeletons in the mess? Then what? Justifiable collateral damage, just like the two people that got shot up in LA?

They would blame the two collateral deaths on him.

For all we know they also used thermal imaging.

 

Do you even know how thremal imaging works? You watch too many movies, a clear payne of glass can hide your heat signature from thermal imaging/FLIR cameras.

I don't disagree with this statement, especially the latter part. LAPD shooting up those vehicles is totally ridiculous. However, like I said I am not too upset over the burning of the house considering the target was inside, alone, and actively engaging the police with automatic gun fire. I guess instead of burning the house down they could have just sent 10,000 rounds into it which would have destroyed it also.

 

 

Monitoring the situation is a far cry from "calling in the SEALS". And like I said, these two situations are completely different. And I think most people agree that WACO was a disaster on all sides.

 

 

LOL, Excuse me if I don't consider that an actual source. Not to mention I see no mention of Navy SEALS.

 

They did send 10,000 rnds into it, at least it sounded like it and it did not work so they burned it down...

...I am not too upset over the burning of the house considering the target was inside, alone, and actively engaging the police with automatic gun fire. I guess instead of burning the house down they could have just sent 10,000 rounds into it which would have destroyed it also.

 

Where did anyone state that he was engaging them with automatic weapons? All of the information I read was that the automatic weapon fire was the police firing at him and that his weapons were suppressed.

Do you even know how thremal imaging works? You watch too many movies, a clear payne of glass can hide your heat signature from thermal imaging/FLIR cameras.

 

Ha, too many movies. Yeah that's it, nice Ad Hominem. I didn't say they used it or attempted to use it. I said "for all we know". Meaning, your statement was total assumption of the facts. Which is something I'm quite sure I see you call people out on from time to time.

I read Missy of these comments and all i have to say is "wow". Whatever happened to due process and innocent until proven guilty? When cops become judge jury and executioner society falls apart. Do i think he was guilty yes but no one piece of evidence has been bright to my attention to prove it. And until that time i would have had to put my personal feeling aside. They should nit have burned the house.

The government is out of control. LEOs as agents of the government are out of control. Those in power believe that they can do whatever they whenever they want and there will be no reprisals.

 

Are we almost ready to prove them wrong?

I don't disagree with this statement, especially the latter part. LAPD shooting up those vehicles is totally ridiculous. However, like I said I am not too upset over the burning of the house considering the target was inside, alone, and actively engaging the police with automatic gun fire. I guess instead of burning the house down they could have just sent 10,000 rounds into it which would have destroyed it also.

 

 

Monitoring the situation is a far cry from "calling in the SEALS". And like I said, these two situations are completely different. And I think most people agree that WACO was a disaster on all sides.

 

 

LOL, Excuse me if I don't consider that an actual source. Not to mention I see no mention of Navy SEALS.

 

That's ok, you have nothing to worry about. You're one of the "good guys"- you're believing what they told you to believe. Good for you.

When has intentionally setting fire to a building become an accepted practice of apprehension/threat elimination? Im not defending dorner by any means, but i fear the negative precedent this will set regarding pd dealing with hostile situations and abandonment of due process.

 

Would they have executed the smoke out if he killed civilians only and not cops?

.

 

Would they have executed the smoke out if he killed civilians only and not cops?

 

And that's another thing that pisses me off: attacking or killing a cop is NO WORSE than attacking or killing anyone else. This whole "cop killer" mentality is a bunch of BS. They are people. They chose their profession. Penalties for killing LEOs should be no worse than for killing anyone else. Ditto the whole "hate crimes" BS. This is AMERICA where were are all created EQUAL, right?

That's ok, you have nothing to worry about. You're one of the "good guys"- you're believing what they told you to believe. Good for you.

 

If you knew me you'd know how utterly ridiculous that comment is. I often come down against the police when warranted and, although I think what happened is a travesty, I think it may have needed to happen. The LAPD, IMO, is a corrupt organization that has lost it's way, same as many other police forces. They are no longer "serving & protecting". If Dorner had given himself up he should have been arrested and tried [although I think he would have been shot while trying to surrender]. He didn't, instead he actively engaged the police in a gun battle, it is ridiculous to question whether he was denied "due process" after he has been killed. It's laughable. It doesn't really matter if he was shot to death or burned to death. He made the choice not to surrender, he engaged the officers.

 

Yeah, the burning of some innocent guys house completely sucks, the family should be compensated, and hopefully it won't become SOP [see below].

 

When has intentionally setting fire to a building become an accepted practice of apprehension/threat elimination? Im not defending dorner by any means, but i fear the negative precedent this will set regarding pd dealing with hostile situations and abandonment of due process.

 

Funny thing, an LEO was on TV during the incident talking about how there was a meeting going on in DC about this very subject. They are thinking about changing the tactics used when they are being engaged by a "active shooter". I wouldn't be shocked if something like this [or just as drastic] becomes standard practice.

This is AMERICA where were are all created EQUAL, right?

 

haha, come on, you know better than that.

haha, come on, you know better than that.

 

Unfortunately, yes. Dark times we are entering.

Folks, This is why we have a problem in this country with mass murders. We glorify it entirely. These people become over night celeberties.

 

I bet his body is still smoldering and we already have talks of a movie on Chris Dorner.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/14/anthony-anderson-christopher-dorner-movie/

 

Disgusting

I suppose some members thinks cops should carry a violence de-esclation kit of rainbow sprinkle donuts and glitter farting unicorns when chasing a guy who has already demonstrated the capacity to take multiple lives in addition to taking hostages and carjacking after finishing a bowl of cheerios.

 

so you think forgetting about due process, innocent until proven guilty, and right to trial by jury can be tossed aside like all the other rights we have, at the whim of some cops? do you want them all to be judge dredd: judge, jury, executioner???

I suppose some members thinks cops should carry a violence de-esclation kit of rainbow sprinkle donuts and glitter farting unicorns when chasing a guy who has already demonstrated the capacity to take multiple lives in addition to taking hostages and carjacking after finishing a bowl of cheerios.

......

lets think about it like this...if youre the victim of a home invasion..by a repeat offender...who "has already demonstrated the capacity to take multiple lives"...you are supposed to hide in a corner and hope he doesnt see you takes what he wants...maybe your wife or daughter...and leaves... if you use force you are a criminal and will spend alot of time and money trying to spend years in jail.....now a badge on the other hand gives carte blanche to shoot up wrong make model and color vehicles with white women instead of a black man.....then burn alive...what if there were other people in the house?...what if there were....KIDS in either the truck wrongfully swiss cheesed or the house turned into ash?...ehhh its ok..."they were under alot of stress"....please...

so you think forgetting about due process, innocent until proven guilty, and right to trial by jury can be tossed aside like all the other rights we have, at the whim of some cops? do you want them all to be judge dredd: judge, jury, executioner???

 

getting closer and closer to that trailer i saw a while ago...."gray state"....people have been walking around oblivious while this shit has been building....and only now...some are starting to realize...like the recent shock that politicians dont care what you think or want...surprise surprise

Cops shot are a big deal.

 

How many of you think that if the Sandy Hook prick escaped alive there would have been a million dollar reward and a house burning party? Not me...

Exactly....their life is worth more than mine, yours, or those kids?.....it's getting ridiculous....as I said before...if someone other than them received death threats..or we're in reasonable fear of being the victim of a killer... We're told "call us if he shows up".... Not provided 24hr armed guards for free....hell they at least are allowed to cc unlike us....

Exactly....their life is worth more than mine, yours, or those kids?.....it's getting ridiculous....as I said before...if someone other than them received death threats..or we're in reasonable fear of being the victim of a killer... We're told "call us if he shows up".... Not provided 24hr armed guards for free....hell they at least are allowed to cc unlike us....

 

Don't forget- you can always get a restraining order, too.

here's the sad thing, we all know his name but nobody knows the names of the people he killed

 

I do

 

RIP

 

 

MONICA QUAN

Monica Quan, 28, and her fiance, Keith Lawrence, 27, were found shot in his car in the parking structure of their Irvine condominium complex on Feb. 3.

 

Quan was in her second year as assistant women's basketball coach at California State University, Fullerton — the culmination of her love for the game that began when she was a child.

 

A standout high school basketball player, Quan once dreamed of playing professionally for the Los Angeles Sparks. She had a reputation for being fiery and intense.

 

Quan met Lawrence while both were playing basketball at Concordia University in Irvine.

After several coaching jobs, she joined Fullerton, where she was known as "Coach Mo."

"I loved her work ethic. I loved her passion for life," head coach Marcia Foster said.

 

Quan's father, Randal, was the first Chinese-American captain in the Los Angeles Police Department. Later, as an attorney, he represented Dorner in the officer's failed appeal of his dismissal to a department Board of Rights.

 

Dorner allegedly posted an online rant naming Quan and others that says: "I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I'm terminating yours."

 

KEITH LAWRENCE

Keith Lawrence loved basketball so much that he would drive miles for a pickup game. But his professional goal was to be a cop.

 

In August, he was hired as an armed public safety officer at the University of Southern California, where he was praised for his professionalism. Before taking the job, he attended the Ventura County Sheriff's Academy and trained with Oxnard police.

 

He grew up playing basketball. As a player in high school and at Concordia University, he was known for his calm, no-drama attitude, even after scoring a half-court basket.

 

Friends told the Orange County Register that Lawrence was flamboyant in other ways; he loved wearing bright colors, such as neon green and yellow, and loudly played every kind of music from hip-hop to country.

 

He and Quan were such basketball fans that Lawrence even wanted to propose at a Nike store. His younger brother, Chris, talked him out of it.

 

Days before their deaths, Lawrence instead scattered rose petals on the floor of their Irvine home, got down on a knee and asked for her hand, the Los Angeles Times reported.

 

MICHAEL CRAIN

Michael Crain, a police officer with the city of Riverside, was mortally wounded on Feb. 7 in an ambush shooting as he sat in a police car at a stoplight.

 

Crain, 34, leaves his wife, a 4-year-old daughter and a son, 10.

 

According to the department, Crain loved attending dance recitals with his daughter, coaching his son's baseball team and restoring his 1970 Chevy Nova.

 

An acquaintance told the Riverside Press-Enterprise that Crain, a SWAT and field training officer, was always focused on officer safety when answering a call, and always had a plan if something went bad.

 

But officials said he had no time to react when a car pulled up and rifle fire erupted as Crain and a trainee officer sat in their patrol car during a graveyard shift. The trainee was wounded and is expected to survive.

 

Crain joined the Riverside police force in 2001 after leaving the Marine Corps, where he served two tours in Kuwait, was promoted to sergeant, and later taught military operations in urban terrain at Camp Pendleton in San Diego County.

 

Thousands gathered for his funeral Wednesday. A white-gloved honor guard carried his flag-draped coffin inside to the sound of bagpipes.

 

JEREMIAH MACKAY

Jeremiah MacKay, a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy, was killed on Feb. 12 after a shootout with Dorner who made his last stand in a cabin in the Big Bear Lake region.

MacKay, a detective with the department for 15 years, leaves behind a wife, a 7-year-old daughter and a 4-month-old son.

 

The Associated Press on Feb. 9 spoke with MacKay, who was on his third day of patrol.

"This one, you just never know if the guy's going to pop out or where he's going to pop out," MacKay told an AP reporter. "We're hoping this comes to a close without any more casualties. The best thing would be for him to give up."

 

MacKay said officers were taking precautions by working in pairs or in larger groups.

"Everyone is here for the safety of everyone," MacKay said, "for the safety of each other, for the safety of you."

 

MacKay was hit several times during the shootout and was airlifted to the hospital where he died of his injuries. Another deputy, Alex Collins, was also hit and remained hospitalized Wednesday after undergoing multiple surgeries. He was expected to recover.

 

 

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/...08.php#ixzz2KtUbCuDw

Thanks Rick