I need to some advice. I need to get some traffic cam footage for traffic court. To get it from the Port authority they need a notice of subpeona.

 

Would I be right to assume that once I plead not guilty and there is a trial date assigned that I can get the judge to issue the subpeona? Would there be any other way?

Go to the NMA website (National Motorists Assoc) and they have all the info about how to everything to fight tickets...

Thanks. Good info there.

 

 

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Or a lawyer could subpoena the footage

Or a lawyer could subpoena the footage

 

This

Yea, that might have to be the way. I was hoping to not have to pay one though.

 

One particular camera would be all the proof i need though. If i got that footage and pressed play case would be dismissed, no discussion, no Q & A- just an early lunch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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did u get a camera ticket ? or an actual officer issued it?

Officer issued. But there are traffic cameras all over that intersection. One is streamed over the web via DOT.

 

If that was recording the case is over.

 

 

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The NMA kits are really helpful. For a non-traffic offense I would never "play lawyer" but for this, you can do it and it's sort of fun. I once got a speeding ticket in Westfield, and after a few weeks had boxes of paper on every officer's training records, the maintenance logs on the radar units, etc. Ticket was dismissed because rader unit hadn't been tuned properly during that shift (or more likely, the guy forgot to write it down).

 

Traffic things you can do yourself.

Did you have to have subpoenas submitted in person?

 

Port authority says i have to and they are unbelievably helpful. So much so that I feel I owe them at least a drink. But The one camera at the actual intersection that it happened may not be recorded.

 

However, the one-way street I was actually on, not the one they said I was on, runs past a loading dock for a large USPS station. I would feel pretty certain that the USPS loading docks have cameras and they are recording, so the subpoena for the USPS cameras might be a stretch though.

 

Anyway, I bought the guide. It is helping me a lot. Thanks again.

 

 

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What you need to do is make a formal request for discovery to the prosecutor of the court where your court case will be herd. Here is what I wrote to the prosecutor of XXXXXXXXX. He provided some of the documents I requested, but not all. Went to court had the judge dismiss the ticket for the prosecutors failure to provide discovery.

 

 

January 31, 2013

XXXXXXXXX Municipal Court

XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXX,

I am scheduled to appear in XXXXXXXXXX Municipal Court on March 4^th, 2013

at 8:30 am for a hearing on summons # EL.

Please provide complete disclosure of the case against me by supplying the following two weeks (14) days before scheduled court appearance:

A- Copy of the video, and audio of incident, including a copy of the summons both front and back.

B- Officer XXXXXXX Notes, and log book day of summons, and daily Radar/ Lidar log.

C- Arrest record (day of offense and last two months prior to alleged offense),

D- Make, Model, Serial Number, and Age, of every Radar/ Lidar device in the department’s inventory.

E- Manufacturer Certificate of Calibration, of every Radar/ Lidar device in the department’s inventory for the past 2 years.

F- Operator Manual and Specifications, of the Radar/Lidar device used in the alleged incident.

G-Tuning Fork documents and serial number of the two tuning forks for associated with the Radar/Lidar device used in the alleged incident.

H- Calibration Log Sheets (date, due, lab).

I- Officer XXXXXXXX Training / Qualifications;

J- Certificate of Competency,

K- Officer XXXXXXX Training Records. ‑‑ Radar/Lidar Training classes, dates, hours,

M- Visual Speed Estimate training dates, hours, accuracy.

N- FCC Public Safety Radio Services (or Radar) License

O- Any engineering and speed studies used to set the speed limit at the section of highway where defendant's speed was measured.

I require timely disclosure in order to make full answer and defense to

the charge. Thank you for your assistance. Please send all information

to the above address. If you have any questions please call

That's great. I can work with that. Thanks.

 

Just to be clear though, I am not trying to disprove the training of a radar gun. I was going straight down a street, eastbound, through four intersections.

 

At the third intersection I was given a ticket for making an illegal left turn from a southbound street onto the same eastbound street I had been driving eastbound on for the previous two intersections. In other words, it just didn't happen. How It got to that point is for me to bring up in front of a judge and I don't want to be "that guy". But the facts will be well born out from the Port Authority cameras.

 

I want to sincerely thank everyone that responded to this thread. Getting the evidence makes all the difference. Showing the truth is far better than whining about " why would I do that"

Act fast, the storage capacity of recorders is limited. The video could be gone a few days after it's recorded.

I was just giving you an example of how to compile a letter of discovery and who you should send it to, which is what you need to do in order to get the video you want. You can put whatever you want in the body of the letter.

 

 

 

 

That's great. I can work with that. Thanks.

 

Just to be clear though, I am not trying to disprove the training of a radar gun. I was going straight down a street, eastbound, through four intersections.

 

At the third intersection I was given a ticket for making an illegal left turn from a southbound street onto the same eastbound street I had been driving eastbound on for the previous two intersections. In other words, it just didn't happen. How It got to that point is for me to bring up in front of a judge and I don't want to be "that guy". But the facts will be well born out from the Port Authority cameras.

 

I want to sincerely thank everyone that responded to this thread. Getting the evidence makes all the difference. Showing the truth is far better than whining about " why would I do that"

I was just giving you an example of how to compile a letter of discovery and who you should send it to, which is what you need to do in order to get the video you want. You can put whatever you want in the body of the letter.

 

Understood. And thanks again. This is very helpful.

 

 

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Your welcome.

Fireanicz is correct. You need request for discovery, I believe at the court clerks office. You could also while you are at it file a motion to dismiss, affidavit of truth, etc. You can find out how to do all these things with a bit of research online. Though it isn't that hard, courts have a ton of procedure, and it is easy to get tripped up. Good luck.

Great. Enter this is in the "how messed up is that" catagory.

 

Video recordings are not admissible in traffic court in NYC. So even though it is likely that a camera recorded me going straight through the interection instead of this F'ed up accusation that I made a left turn, as well as the officer pulling me over on the same camera, I can't use it.

 

So now I am forced to do the B.S. (and personally demeaning) "man trying to beat the system" delay tactics in court that every other guilty person does instead of just showing that going straight is not the same as going left. This is going to cost me $500 because some jackass can't use his eyes or engage his brain. Great day to be an American.

 

I'm trying to figure out how being "innocent until proven guilty" happens when the only evidence admited is the officer's ticket.

Did you send an OPRA request? They have to respond within a week, even if the answer is No. It's a one page form, fax it to them. They may even let you do it online on their website.

 

Keep in mind, in many instances, lawyers are required to file subpoenas to get info for cases even though any old Joe can get info with a simple public records request. Not sure if that is the case with these records or not, but my point is it's possible they might be telling you one way to get it when there is an easier way.

Regardless of what is or isn't admissible, you still need to request discovery for IMO, most of the things fireandicz mentioned. File a motion to dismiss, and an affidavit of truth stating what happened. Also, are traffic violation in NY civil or criminal?

"administrative" is the only word I have been told today to describe it. Furthermore, the ticket hasn't even been entered yet so I can't plead to it on line. I think I can go in person with the ticket to plead to it.

 

Perhaps going with the ticket, making the plea and then handing the judge a letter can be done all at once? Also, Miapafox, I don't think OPRA is part of NY State law.

I don't even see a mention on NY. I guess I missed it.

Wow, very informative thread. That being said, good luck. This is where a PBa card would have helped.

 

Guilty or not guilty, I have had a cop lie through his teeth at the trial. Basically they read some rhetoric from their book which encompasses almost anything and everything then the judge rules against you.

On second thought, even though I am a huge advocate of not taking a plea when you are truly innocent, that might be a good idea. You are going to lose. Might as well try to save some money.

 

Last year it was exposed that not only was there 'ticket fixing' going on, their solution to that was to punish LEO's who didn't do a good enough job, which in turn, led to exaggerations and lying in court. In other words, in order to not be punished administratively, LEO's were being forced to perjurer themselves. Of course, the judge isn't there to act as an unbiased and impartial judge, either, so they don't care if the officer is lying, regardless of whether you prove it or not.

 

Furthermore, it sounds like traffic violations are to be treated as misdemeanors for the purpose of trials.....except that you can't get a jury, and have no right to a fair and speedy trial...or due process. And did you know that in traffic court you don't need to be proven guilty? The burden of proof is on...you. They don't need to provide evidence against you. Their word is all that is required. And their word outweighs your evidence. Seriously. So basically, you are dealing with a kangaroo court who wants your money.

 

What is worse, is that they are so busy, and have so many people, in order to speed things up, anyone who tries to fight it (and loses most likely), receives additional 'administrative' fees. So tack on more money to your ticket...just because the court had to do its job.

This is so unbelievably frustrating.

 

"Discovery," I just found out, is not available in New York City for traffic court. I just drove in the exact same route this morning and noted three Port Authority cameras in the locations of my route. One at the exit of the tunnel, one at a turn off where taking the left fork makes it impossible for me to do what the cop said. One at the intersection of 32nd street anDyer Avenue. And to top it off, there is a Post Office with 5 cameras all facing towards the southbound approach on Dyer to 30th street that I had taken. In other words the entire span from the tunnel to the actual intersection where the officer alleges I was south-bound turning east ( instead of eastbound heading east) had a camera on it. A total of 6 minutes worth of footage is all I need.

 

I not only can't use that in NYC traffic court, I can't even ask for it.

 

The thing that kills me is that the cop stopped me and was all smiles. He simply said "you know your supposed to use the left turn lane to make a left turn right?"

And when he said it it made absolutely no sense to me. So I said "I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand"

This went back and forth and he was nice and polite. I was perfectly respectful. I am talking to a NYC based lawyer now and he says to me "I have been doing this a long time and never once has any of my clients said the cop was respectful. I told him "well let me be the first."

 

In retrospect, the problem was that while he was trying to be a nice guy and give me a warning, I was completely taken off guard by what he was saying. Left turn? Huh? a left turn would have been against traffic into ninth avenue." So while I was confused and answering truthfully, he was thinking "can't this asshole see I am trying to let him go? Why can't he just admit to it?" So in retrospect, I would have been okay if I had lied and said "sorry" instead of sticking with the truth.

 

The lawyer says that given the restrictions of NYC traffic court, the most succesful ploy is holding off the trial as long as possible. I can save $1800 in insurance. Just what I need on my license when I am looking to lease a 2013 Camry.

 

I can't believe my only recourse is to go the sleazeball route of gaming the system with an attorney. I can't tell you how much doing things that way disgusts me and apparently I am forced to do it now.

 

 

I might just need get to the range for a while.

This is so unbelievably frustrating.

 

"Discovery," I just found out, is not available in New York City for traffic court.

 

I not only can't use that in NYC traffic court, I can't even ask for it.

 

 

In retrospect, the problem was that while he was trying to be a nice guy and give me a warning, I was completely taken off guard by what he was saying. So in retrospect, I would have been okay if I had lied and said "sorry" instead of sticking with the truth.

 

 

I can't believe my only recourse is to go the sleazeball route of gaming the system with an attorney. I can't tell you how much doing things that way disgusts me and apparently I am forced to do it now.

 

 

I might just need get to the range for a while.

 

Ahh, yes, it appears there is no discovery, because as I made note of before, NYC traffic court is in fact not a real court, it is a kangaroo court or 'administrative tribunal' as I have seen it referred too.

 

Standard rules do not apply. You have no constitutional protection, because it is not a constitutionally followed proceeding. Hearsay is just fine...when it benefits the state. Evidence is not required. Appeals are discouraged...because you have to pay for them.

 

Sorry buddy. You got boned.

In Florida, traffic cameras are on the way out as it seems that the company who installs them ends up with the lion's share of profits. They are viewed as profit making machines. The other problem is that you cannot meet your accuser and there is no way to prove you were the one driving the car when it was speeding. In any event, since this one case, many localities are removing them and judges refusing to admit the photos in evidence.

 

To fight the legality of traffic cams is an expensive proposition and best undertaken by an organization. I do not know how you can fight photographic proof if it is acceptable to the courts of NJ without bringing up the issues of legality.

Great.  I got all the footage I need from the Freedom of Information act.  Video proof.  Just no court to show it in.

 

Do you know what I refer to when I sing, "shame shame SHAME!"?

 

Contact Fox 5 (http://www.myfoxny.com/category/233240/shame-shame-shame) or another local news station that does a similar feature on their nightly newscast

 

They'll eat your story up like hotcakes on Shrove Tuesday

 

P.S. don't tell them you're a gun owner

Oh, I work in television. I am writing the script.

 

 

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