I hear shots all the time being fired around here. Nobody even thinks twice about it. Could be just some guy plinking in his back yard. 

 

Just too much damn hoplophobia these days. 

I hear shots all the time being fired around here. Nobody even thinks twice about it. Could be just some guy plinking in his back yard. 

 

Just too much damn hoplophobia these days.

 

I agree...but when a call like that comes in units must be deployed appropriately. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have

I agree...but when a call like that comes in units must be deployed appropriately. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have

Not necessarily. I don't know about this particular instance, but an overwhelming show of force could escalate a situation. If 2 Leo's showed up at my door I wouldn't think much of it. Bring the swat team and its an entirely different situation. That could make a normal person extremely paranoid. I agree tho, better to have them ready to go.

Yeah. Big screw up. They showed up in force to be ready for any situation. Thankfully they weren't needed. Had they been needed and delayed response until they were certain then you would be saying" see, the cops take forever to show up, they can't help you" . Its a no win with people like you.

 

 

+1

I can't put my finger on why but I don't like the phrase "active shooter".

 

It seems like the media saturation from recent events has put it into the vocabulary of the general public where, predictably, it is used indiscriminately.

 

IMO the phrase needs to be abandonded by the public at large and returned to the confines of the specialtized lexicon from where it came

Yeah makes sense to deploy overwhelming force and evacuate people with what could have been handled with a phone call.

 

The new normal, over react "just in case".

I agree...but when a call like that comes in units must be deployed appropriately. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have

Why? An unconfirmed report of shots fired? Whats wrong with a phone call or a unit to confirm situation before calling for all hands and a multi hour standoff.

Yeah makes sense to deploy overwhelming force and evacuate people with what could have been handled with a phone call.

 

The new normal, over react "just in case".

Don't really have a choice these days, even the fire departments have 2 or 3 station dispatched for an alarm system because they don't know what the call actually is till they get there.  Better to have and not need then to need and not have. 

Why? An unconfirmed report of shots fired? Whats wrong with a phone call or a unit to confirm situation before calling for all hands and a multi hour standoff.

Hi this is the police your neighbor said he heard someone fire a gun, was that you?  No okay thanks....  badguy then proceeds to shoot the rest of the people in the house...

Don't really have a choice these days, even the fire departments have 2 or 3 station dispatched for an alarm system because they don't know what the call actually is till they get there. Better to have and not need then to need and not have.

they also show up when you call them and say it was a false alarm. Not sure why. We has some issues with a bug bomb years ago and they refused to accept the false alarm. Came to the house and immediately turned around, and they charged us for it. I felt bad we wasted all those guys time, but at the same time we promptly tried to call them off.

If I set someone's house on fire then call and say ohh those alarms were a false alarm I burnt the turkey no need to come out and no one shows up and the house burns down the home owner will sue the FD for not coming out.  Almost everything done today is for CYA purposes and public safety professionals can't trust what someone says  over a phone.

If I set someone's house on fire then call and say ohh those alarms were a false alarm I burnt the turkey no need to come out and no one shows up and the house burns down the home owner will sue the FD for not coming out. Almost everything done today is for CYA purposes and public safety professionals can't trust what someone says over a phone.

it's not the sending someone to check it out part. It's the sending of 4 trucks from 3 different stations. I guess it is the world we live in. Such a waste.

All liability...

 

- PD will show to make sure the call being canceled was not under duress.

 

- FD will show up, at least with one unit to make sure there is no fire. They cannot be sure that even though you say it's a false alarm, that there is no chance of reoccurring flames from anything.

 

Yes, it's cya... But would you rather them trust a caller in any situation?

 

Technically, believe it's state law, that a FD call cannot be canceled.

I also know that back in the late 80's - early 90's... (Can't recall exactly when), depts started charging for false alarms. Mainly due to habitual calls from mostly commercial buildings. This was a monetary hint to get the problems fixed or pay us to baby sit your problematic fire system...

 

 

 

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Yeah makes sense to deploy overwhelming force and evacuate people with what could have been handled with a phone call.

The new normal, over react "just in case".

Point proven about not having a clue. Lets call and ask if everything is ok. We will get the truth, we are the police. Wow...wanna buy a bridge?

When I lived in Queens the favored thing to do in the projects was to call in an "officer down" no matter what the situation.

 

Everytime the people were gone but the cops got there PDQ. Most would tell you though it was usually about a fight on the street or an argument over a parking space, but they wouldn't tell the cops that.

 

 

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When I lived in Queens the favored thing to do in the projects was to call in an "officer down" no matter what the situation.

 

Everytime the people were gone but the cops got there PDQ. Most would tell you though it was usually about a fight on the street or an argument over a parking space, but they wouldn't tell the cops that.

 

 

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well that has more to do with them not showing up and finding a way to get them to.

I agree...but when a call like that comes in units must be deployed appropriately. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have

Really? Once I called the NJSP about what I thought were shots being fired, they told me relax, it's the country, people do that all the time. After a while you get used to it. 

Really? Once I called the NJSP about what I thought were shots being fired, they told me relax, it's the country, people do that all the time. After a while you get used to it. 

This wasnt the country, it's a fairly dense area and a main road with houses close to each other.

There is a big difference between sending a unit or two to go investigate, and sending swat units, evacuating and blocking off the area, and posting snipers on the roofs of neighbors houses. Unless the report was that Rambo was taking over the neighborhood, I have a feeling there was just a bit of an overreaction.

It was probably due to all the recent hype. Didn't want to have a Boston thingie all over again...

 

There is a big difference between sending a unit or two to go investigate, and sending swat units, evacuating and blocking off the area, and posting snipers on the roofs of neighbors houses. Unless the report was that Rambo was taking over the neighborhood, I have a feeling there was just a bit of an overreaction.

 

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And when the police dont deploy enough resources and something goes wrong the Chief's getting an instant rectal exam on why he didnt send the necessary personnel.. You people love to play it both ways..tis better to have than have not.. The safest fight is the one thats unfair to your opponent..

This wasnt the country, it's a fairly dense area and a main road with houses close to each other.

No kidding. My cousin lives there on that street. I've been there. I know the neighborhood. I still don't think it warranted sharp shooters on the roof, and a SWAT team. A patrol car or two? Yes, absolutely. 

Got a new S.O.P. that police should follow:

 

When someone calls 911 with an active shooter call they should send one unit out to check, when they can confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a gun shot and not someone setting off firecrackers in the kitchen then they may request a second unit to confirm their confirmation. After the second unit confirms they will log on to njgunforums.com and start a thread with a poll to decide whether or not the situation requires more force.

 

Anybody have better ideas???

Nope. They need to send out SWAT and evacuate everyone in a 20 block radius. Who knows, he may have a Barrett 50 cal and could be shooting down an oil refinery or aircraft. 

Anybody have better ideas???

You use common sense rather than making sarcastic suggestions because you have a differing opinion?

Got a new S.O.P. that police should follow:

 

 

When someone calls 911 with an active shooter call they should send one unit out to check, when they can confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a gun shot and not someone setting off firecrackers in the kitchen then they may request a second unit to confirm their confirmation. After the second unit confirms they will log on to njgunforums.com and start a thread with a poll to decide whether or not the situation requires more force.

 

Anybody have better ideas???

 

Lol..fantastic idea. The tactical gurus that are on here will make the command decisions. You know like call and ask if everthing is ok. When the.perp says yes they then shower him with rainbows,puppies and unicorns. If something bad then happens because he isnt telling the truth then they can throw some agency under the bus for being lazy, overpaid do-nothings.

You use common sense rather than making sarcastic suggestions because you have a differing opinion?

Common sense is open to interpretation. I hear a lot of people on here just spouting out that is F'd up and that is F'd up. Everyone can say send a unit or two to confirm an active shooting......... Well what if it was an active shooting and those 2 units were ambushed by someone looking to cause havoc. Now you have 2 to 4 cops dead b/c someone thinks they have a better way. Was my answer sarcastic, yes however my SOP makes as much sense as others ideas.

Active shooters have been stressed in training ever since columbine. Time is of the essence. You flood the area with police personnel to find,contain and eliminate the threat as soon as possible to save as many lives as possible.

 

Guess what. If its not needed then you have just practiced your emergency response to an active shooter. Training. OMG ..real life training.

 

So this is how this board goes lately. Cops need more training, when they overdeploy in response to a possible active shooter. Instead of looking at it as a real life training excercise to learn from..its an overreaction. So in the eyes of a lot of people here no matter what LEO cant win. So explaining it is pointless and a complete waste of time.

Common sense is open to interpretation. I hear a lot of people on here just spouting out that is F'd up and that is F'd up. Everyone can say send a unit or two to confirm an active shooting......... Well what if it was an active shooting and those 2 units were ambushed by someone looking to cause havoc. Now you have 2 to 4 cops dead b/c someone thinks they have a better way. Was my answer sarcastic, yes however my SOP makes as much sense as others ideas.

At what point did they realize they weren't being ambushed by a squad of Ramboesque commandos, before or after people were forced from their homes and they had deployed snipers to the roofs?

Common sense is open to interpretation. I hear a lot of people on here just spouting out that is F'd up and that is F'd up. Everyone can say send a unit or two to confirm an active shooting......... Well what if it was an active shooting and those 2 units were ambushed by someone looking to cause havoc. Now you have 2 to 4 cops dead b/c someone thinks they have a better way. Was my answer sarcastic, yes however my SOP makes as much sense as others ideas.

At what point did they realize they weren't being ambushed by a squad of Ramboesque commandos, before or after people were forced from their homes and they had deployed snipers to the roofs?

probably after they realized this was nothing they all got together and made a decision to clear homes to practice for the eventual raids on everybody's house.