Who the hell uses a chainsaw to open a safe?

I'd use a reciprocating saw. Would take a few minutes though.

In NJ with having to wait months to get another handgun, you should be provided with a pistol permit on the spot so that you can replace the one that was taken as evidence (if it was a handgun used).  I am not saying for the long arm of the law to pay for one, but if you weren't changed, then you should have that option granted to you given the delays in this state.    A responsible gun owner should already have a backup gun.  However, if a handgun was seized and you requested a permit, it should be granted.  The only problem with that scenario is that in NJ, you would probably be charged with something...  As far as seizing the other guns not involved in the crime, I cannot see any reason why that should be allowed or be an issue, etc.. If your car is taken as evidence, you might not be able to get another one, financially, but you can go and get one.  You can also go and get a long gun immediately, but you would have to go to an out-of-state dealer to do that. 

 

I started this thread because I wanted to know if it was common practice to take all guns in an instant like that.  If you aren't charged, it would seem to reason that the other ones locked away shouldn't even be cataloged.

 

Agreed.

You may still be speechless when you hear my response.

 

Just to be sure you understand what I'm saying let me expand a bit on what I said.  If you are the victim of a home invasion which you fought off using a firearm, you are not not being arrested, and the police are taking the firearm you used I understand that.  If they want the other 99 guns you have in your safe I am not alright with that unless they have a warrant to do so but more on that later.

 

You are like so many so called 2A activists Constitutional scholars which only see the 2A and just want the rest to apply to you.  The Constitution is not just the 2A and **** as much as you want the Constitutional protections you enjoy apply to the criminals as well.  The same protections that prevent the Obama Thought Police from knocking down your door and charging and finding you guilty of ficticious crimes are enjoyed by everyone.  The Constitution, as much as you might not like it to, applies to evryone in this country. 

 

Over the years, in response to court rulings and demands by people (many like you), a system of Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rules of Evidence, Court Rules, etc has been developed to ensure a defendant's rights are preserved in proceedings.

 

Seizing the firearm you used in defending your home is not about denying you 2A rights but preserving evidence.  Now as much as you argue it doesn't, there is evidence that proves you're innocent not only evidence that proves your guilt.  That firearm is part of the proof you were shooting in self defense.  If the bad guys are not convicted of invading your home and putting you in jepoardy you could be charged (highly unlikely in a home invasion scenario).  Your claim of self defense is based on the actions of the defendants so your gun becomes part of the incident. Keep in mind if you are claiming self defense you must, at some point, admit that you shot at them.  I'm sure in your mind its never talk to the police and if you don't know what to say saying nothing is good advice although in some circumstances it can result in you going to prison for no reason.  That's a topic for a different thread though.

 

You ask if they can seize your home or other assets as evidence.  Well they can if that's what's required to avoid the evidence from being tainted and the defense doesn't stipulate to the lab reports.  They can take your door or cut out parts of the windowsill if that's what it takes.  If your car is stolen and someone uses it to purposely kill someone else it will be seized as evidence.  If it is crucial to the case you may not get your car back until all appeals are exhausted and that may take years.  If its your only way to get to work you need to find an alternative.  Police seize fruits of crime and private property as evidence all the time and are required often to maintain them as until all proceedings are over.

 

Why have many been okay with the police seizing evidence and hanging on to it?  For evidentiary purposes as explained. Have you ever seen a criminal complaint?  It names the State (or the United States of America) as the complainant not the person the crime was commited against.  That's as it should be and very Constitutional.  A crime against you is seen as a crime against all people (that's the state isn't it).  You don't have to spend thousands, in many cases millions of dollars to investigate, apprehend, convict, and punish those that commited the crime. 

 

The police are required to investigate the entire incident.  As I stated your claim of self defense is based on what the bad guys did.  You are not being treated like a criminal if they take your gun as evidence.  It is needed to determine who shot what or who.  You are a part of the people and can't opt out of this. How long they keep the gun is dependent on a lot of things, all of them not under the prosecutor's control.

 

You appear to have no knowledge of criminal investigation, criminal procedure, or rules or evidence.

 

My goodness, you keep giving power over to the State and then complain when they act like Statists!! Really? I'm speechless...[/size]

 

Please make me aware of how I gave power over to the State.  I didn't know I was so influential.[/size]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you'd feel better if the government issued you a gun?   As I explained above they would be seizing the gun to preserve as evidence of the incident not to deprive you of you rights.   Depending on the circumstances even an innocent cop can be on the rubber gun squad for some time.  

 

 

 

If they wanted my other guns I'd refuse.  To get a warrant you need to explain why what you want to seize is illegal.  If you are not being arrested after the shooting I can't see how they can get one.

I take it your LEO?

What guns in the safe? I keep my laundry detergent and dryer sheets in there. No I won't open it, I'm not doing laundry right now.

I take it your LEO?

 

 

I'm a retired LEO. What I discussed is the system which I don't agree with 100% but it is the system. Believe it or not the system works two ways.

 

 

What guns in the safe? I keep my laundry detergent and dryer sheets in there. No I won't open it, I'm not doing laundry right now.

How did they know you have a safe?

 

There has been way too much speculation on this thread. Will they take the gun you used? Yes. But to take all your guns there has to be some basis in law for them to do so. If you are not arrested I cannot see any way they can take all your guns. If anyone can come up with a reason let us know. Don't give us that "they'll do what they want" as that is not true.

I turned in all my guns at an out of state buy back...

The government...remember, it's billable hours they get paid. So if it takes them two weeks, 25 chainsaws at $200 per hour, that's some nice cash.

 

lol,

 

Someone I know was raided by the NJSP not long ago, they called some auto repair company and had them show up with a torch and mechanic to open a safe.

 

That mechanic made some good money or so I hear

The youtube is full of videos of cops that dont know the law doing what they want to

I turned in all my guns at an out of state buy back...

 

Do they pay more accross state lines??? I have some evil Antique BB rifles and a BB pistols....Wait! NJ is the only state to consider them firearms so I won't get jack for 'em, Ughh!!!

The youtube is full of videos of cops that dont know the law doing what they want to

There are thousands of other cops that know the law and never make You Tube.

Why would they even know I have a safe, or other firearms. Its not pertinent to the investigation. I'm sure they would know about our pistols thats the whole point of the permits. But I would not volunteer information, and remain respectful as possible.

Why would they even know I have a safe, or other firearms. Its not pertinent to the investigation. I'm sure they would know about our pistols thats the whole point of the permits. But I would not volunteer information, and remain respectful as possible.

 

Yep, the pistol permits allow them to know who has a handgun within the State.

 

Rifles and shotguns even when purchased from a FFL are not known to the State, and you could have sold them at FTF so no real way of tracking what long-guns someone owns.

 

I agree with you, do not volunteer information that isn't needed.

The government doesnt need to know what i have .. Pistol or not .. This little communist arm pit state has alotta nerve making us get pistol permits....

The government doesnt need to know what i have .. Pistol or not .. This little communist arm pit state has alotta nerve making us get pistol permits....

 

But remember, It's For The Children!!!

 

I agree, the Govt. has no need to know what I have.

 

Unless they send a Super Trooper or doorman with a 20LB sledgehammer to beat down my door I will refuse to show them anything, my stash is OEO (Official Eyes Only) and that means my eyes only and not the Govt's!

One could imagine situations where a break-in could be staged, or one criminal died from a bullet fired by his accomplice. That's why it's prudent for the police to take your gun for ballistics testing, to make 100% certain that the situation is as it appears.

 

The sticky point: Yes, if you're law-abiding you deserve to keep your weapon, or be given a replacement or permit on the spot. But I think the police should first determine, within a reasonable period of time, say 24 hours, that the events unfolded as the homeowner described them. 

 

OTOH I've never heard of a "staged" home invasion. 

One could imagine situations where a break-in could be staged, or one criminal died from a bullet fired by his accomplice. That's why it's prudent for the police to take your gun for ballistics testing, to make 100% certain that the situation is as it appears.

 

The sticky point: Yes, if you're law-abiding you deserve to keep your weapon, or be given a replacement or permit on the spot. But I think the police should first determine, within a reasonable period of time, say 24 hours, that the events unfolded as the homeowner described them. 

 

OTOH I've never heard of a "staged" home invasion. 

You answered a question I had just before I typed it...regarding what is the point to doing ballistics on my gun.  I would say if I shot an intruder, what is to be gained by analyzing the gun I shot him with?  But if the guy gets shot by his dopey accomplice, that makes more sense.

But that gets complicated.  If his buddy is shooting, so am I.  So then they'd need to confiscate both guns to see who plugged the first guy.  But then why would it matter?

 

I wish we did have a castle doctrine here.  Why should I have to mentally go through a slew of conditions to evaluate if the meth-head in my living room meets the criteria?  You came in uninvited, look out.  We all know you didn't drop by for tea.

Except my mother-in-law, who actually does that.

You answered a question I had just before I typed it...regarding what is the point to doing ballistics on my gun.  I would say if I shot an intruder, what is to be gained by analyzing the gun I shot him with?  But if the guy gets shot by his dopey accomplice, that makes more sense.

But that gets complicated.  If his buddy is shooting, so am I.  So then they'd need to confiscate both guns to see who plugged the first guy.  But then why would it matter?

 

I wish we did have a castle doctrine here.  Why should I have to mentally go through a slew of conditions to evaluate if the meth-head in my living room meets the criteria?  You came in uninvited, look out.  We all know you didn't drop by for tea.

Except my mother-in-law, who actually does that.

The legal system has a life of its own. You frequently read about someone who has met an untimely end undergoing an autopsy. I usually ask, "he got run over by a train -- why do they need to do a postmortem exam?" Well, they like to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. Maybe the person was strangled first, then thrown onto the tracks. In the case of a break-in, maybe the M-F had a heart attack and died before the bullet hit him. Maybe, if his accomplice killed him, his despicable family cannot sue you. Maybe, if you actually killed him you get a lifetime NRA membership or 10k rounds of free ammo. 

 

One thing I would NEVER do, if I ever (God forbid) was in that situation, was tell the cops anything other than "they broke in, and the situation has been resolved." I would not even add "I fired my gun." I would not tell them anything else whatsoever. Like how many shots you fired, where the scumbags were when they were shot, anything. I'd not say another word until I had a lawyer. Castle Defense, Hovel Defense, whatever. 

 

These are life-changing situations. You might as well take full advantage of the legal system's protections. 

 

See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc