I came up with a brilliant plan the other day.

 

I am in the market for a .22 rifle. Was thinking of supporting one of my local shops, but they don't have very good selections. Not interested in paying the $60 transfer fee (i.e. penalty) either, plus shipping, for shopping online.

 

So I decided to shop for my gun in PA. Dunkelberger's, in Stroudsburg, has a very nice selection of used and new .22s. In PA the "I" in NICS stands for "instant," not "indefinite," so I'd get the gun immediately. Pay lower tax, probably a lower price as well, could pick up some ammo depending on availability, and have a nice family-type afternoon.

 

Important: The transfer fees our shops charge are a TREMENDOUS incentive for them to retain the status quo, including the long NICS delay. (My closest shop charges $10/month to store guns, which is very easy to reach considering a 20-day NICS and a couple of weekend commitments).

 

I'll bet if NJ gun-buyers decided to purchase all their long guns across the Delaware, dealers would eventually get the message, and they might effect some legislative changes.

 

The cloud in this silver lining is that they'd lobby the legislature to ban out of state sales entirely.

 

Go right ahead and do so if you wish, but if more and more people decide to do the same thing,  the end result will probably be fewer FFLs in business in NJ. FFL's have their hands tied with regards to NIC's . Not their doing, so why punish them? This is my opinion, and I'm not looking to argue my point any further then this post.

I always support local shops and will continue to do so.

rant over...

if it's not a very rare gun, i won't buy long guns in NJ..not worth the aggrevation..

Let me break it to you.

 

Dealers dont really like the status quo or the laws in NJ but they have to abide by them like everyone else.

I ve probably talked to 4-5 dealers in the past week looking for somehting,

 

There s more then a few FFLs and forum vendors who post their opinions on regular basis as you might have read, but to say that they like this situation just for charging storage fees i i find it very unbelievable.

 

Maybe you need to find yourself a better shop .

 

Yes, i ve bough in PA for the convinience recently but it was something i have not been able to get in NJ.

I dont like the wait like everyone else but i do want to buy in state as much as i can for all reasons stated many times.

 

But dont label the dealers in NJ that they are a part of a conspiracy and that they like the situation.

I m sure they ll read this and post their view on things in this thread.

Lots of NJ FFLs have reasonable transfer fees. I pay $25-$30.

You must be in Love with Michael Bloomberg, then, since he will be getting a record and video of your purchase at Dunkelbergers. Several folks on here have been buying long guns out of state lately due to the NICS wait, but you obviously can't to that with a handgun (legally). I doubt that a lot of folks that aren't already doing a lot of purchases in PA/DE will jump on your bandwagon. The number of FFLs in NJ is far less than actual gun owners, you seem to have some idea that they should be able to effect change on their own, pro or con.  Go gripe at the NJSP or AG office, whining on hre wil only get you the rep of being a PITA

I came up with a brilliant plan the other day.

 

I am in the market for a .22 rifle. Was thinking of supporting one of my local shops, but they don't have very good selections. Not interested in paying the $60 transfer fee (i.e. penalty) either, plus shipping, for shopping online.

 

So I decided to shop for my gun in PA. Dunkelberger's, in Stroudsburg, has a very nice selection of used and new .22s. In PA the "I" in NICS stands for "instant," not "indefinite," so I'd get the gun immediately. Pay lower tax, probably a lower price as well, could pick up some ammo depending on availability, and have a nice family-type afternoon.

 

Important: The transfer fees our shops charge are a TREMENDOUS incentive for them to retain the status quo, including the long NICS delay. (My closest shop charges $10/month to store guns, which is very easy to reach considering a 20-day NICS and a couple of weekend commitments).

 

I'll bet if NJ gun-buyers decided to purchase all their long guns across the Delaware, dealers would eventually get the message, and they might effect some legislative changes.

 

The cloud in this silver lining is that they'd lobby the legislature to ban out of state sales entirely.

How the hell you figure this is a good idea? FFLs are not part of the problem and are in the same boat we are. Want gun biz shops to leave NJ, just keep that mindset. Further more, FFLs cannot effect anything. They are not law makers. If anyone will make changes, it will be us...

When we whine to the state, what are they gonna do? The state has power over the FFL's who hold licenses... Besides what do you think they are actually going to do? like Matty just brought up. you have millions of gun owners and a few thousand FFL's where do you think the power of persuasion should lay? Now, i agree about the transfer issues, there are some stores i do not go to anymore because they not only never have the guns i want, can't get them, and then want me to pay out the ass for a transfer. If you have the same gun in your case that is being transferred i get it....

Transfer fees suck. one store quoted me 85 + NICS to transfer a fucking mossberg 590 SPX. So 100 bucks on top of my 550 shotgun they could'nt get or order. Waited 2 months. Drove out of state and ta-daa!

I continue to goto pa for transfers... im mot waiting for my gun

This may be naive, but what about checking things out by shopping outside NJ and online getting your facts and data or even actually holding your prime candidates and then having a NJ dealer order it for you? You get the best of both worlds: shopping around, which when it's something you like can be kinda fun, narrrowing your choices so you get a more suitable piece, and supporting a NJ dealer. With rifles, you should be able to find a relatively 'local' shop that deals that brand and, here's the naive part, there isn't the huge lack of guns they can get for you like pistols, is there?

Just thinking out loud.

While our 2-3 week wait for NICS flat out sucks, be glad you're not in Maryland.  I was reading that their wait time is somewhere around 60 days.

What do you need that bad that you can't wait. Why punish local ffl's? It's not them....they would love to get the stuff out quick.

Transfer fees suck. one store quoted me 85 + NICS to transfer a fucking mossberg 590 SPX. So 100 bucks on top of my 550 shotgun they could'nt get or order. Waited 2 months. Drove out of state and ta-daa!

Someone has a great sheet here with transfer prices. No reason to pay more than $50 plus nics. And a lot of dealers here are $25 to $35 plus nics

 

 

Storage fees I understand..... And most will not charge... But then you have people like me who had guns at an FFL for close to a year waiting for permits.

Buying your long gun in PA is certainly your prerogative, as many in NJ are doing. 

 

However, to say that dealers in NJ love the status quo is, well, frankly, an absolute misconception.  Ask the FFL's on this forum (and there are many) if they like the long NICS delays.  I dont know where you (OP) are going for your local "dealer", but the majority of FFL's do not charge a storage fee.  If your local dealer is wanting $10-$20 per month for storage, then you should absolutely find yourself another FFL to deal with. 

 

Also, to think that they are happy with this is very wrong for another reason..  the longer they hold your gun, the longer til they get paid and it takes up space in their safes/vaults.  As far as the transfer fees go, well, thats not the FFL's faults.  The transfer fee that they charge obviously varies greatly from FFL to FFL, but NICS fees are not.  If you are being quoted $60 for a transfer fee, then again, I urge you to look for another local FFL.  Personally, I use Monmouth Arms as my FFL, and im charged $40 for a 1-gun transfer, and that includes the mandatory $15 NICS fee (i.e. $25 transfer fee).  Plus, you get discounts for doing multiple guns at once.  Is he the  CLOSEST FFL that I could use?  No.  Is he pleasant to deal with and has bceome a friend through transfers and great conversation?  Yep.  If I need something in the future that might be harder to find, will he search for it for me?  Yep.. 

 

Again, I get the fact that you dont want to wait to bring home a long gun purchase (no one else does either) and I can see going to PA to get one (if you are close enough to do so), but don't label dealers in NJ with an experience at a single dealer.  You have been on this forum long enough to know that most FFL's are not like the one you have dealt with and NONE of them like the situation here..  More holding of customer firearms = less room for their own inventory = less sales. 

My thought is that you will eventually need to go to a FFL. When they start closing out, there will be even less places you can get your handgun. I wouldn't rule out that someone in Trenton gets the bright idea of banning purchases of long guns out of state. Then you'll be forced to use a NJ FFL which will be few and far in between as we refuse to support them.

 

I like my FFL and try to support him. I like instant gratification but I know I need them. He only charges 35 (includes NICS) for a transfer and even has late hours to accommodate me commuting back from NYC. The in store pricing is also comparable to online prices as he is not looking to gouge. I've seen people walk out with boxes and boxes of ammo. I do not blame him for the situation we are in. We all know who's really at fault and we can attempt to change it at the polls.

Others have already said it.  FFLs do not hold so much power over this Republic of NJ. We all wish they did and we all wish the Govt here would listen to law abiding citizens and small businesses like FFLs. But they dont, thats precisely why we are in this sh*t hole situation to begin with.

 

If transfer fees are your only problem, you can easily find multiple NJ FFLs who charge more like $35 including NJ NICS fees.

More sales (quicker sales) equals more profit/income, someone has to open a dictionary (not the one bill clinton used) and come up with the definition of "pending" so "instant" is defined as only 3 days. Thats if you want to stay in buisness in nj.

Perfect. Now FFL's are part of the reason nics is delayed...

 

I assume the OP has some theory how we are causing the delay in nics and how we are benefiting from having to store more guns while we wait for approvals..

 

How does the OP consider the transfer fee a "Penalty" i assume he expects people to do transfers free of charge... I agree its not like we have expenses, that 25 bucks i charge is pure profit and we are all going to retire millionaires by 50yo.

 

Great idea..... Once the NJ Nics system is back to instant i recommended the op continue to drive to PA and spend 40 bucks in gas and tolls as to avoid the "penalties"  NJ  FFL's  are placing on him.

Steve u know i would love to use u... but i cant justify dishing out 400+ dollars and waiting for my product 16-21 days when i can drive 45 minutes to pa.. and leave and leave 20 minutes later. To me it just makes sense. Plus 2 trips to you... when its 1 trip to pa..

25 bucks is not an unreasonable charge at all....its when it gets aroung 50 or 60 and then add the nics fee that its gets crazy....My closest FFL charges 45 plus the nics but cant even tell me when he'll get something in stock but yet i find it at 14 different websites in stock?  Even though i understand that the FFL needs to make something it really does feel like a penalty.  And I really dont mean that to offend anyone here.  Just giving MHO....If the local stores cannot provide the product then you cant blame the customer for looking elsewhere.  Can you?  Same thing with fees.  If i can find a lower fee elsewhere why shouldnt i shop there?

Steve u know i would love to use u... but i cant justify dishing out 400+ dollars and waiting for my product 16-21 days when i can drive 45 minutes to pa.. and leave and leave 20 minutes later. To me it just makes sense. Plus 2 trips to you... when its 1 trip to pa..

 

 

 

my issues not the PA thing. its the "penalty" and we enjoy the nics delays

25 bucks is not an unreasonable charge at all....its when it gets aroung 50 or 60 and then add the nics fee that its gets crazy....My closest FFL charges 45 plus the nics but cant even tell me when he'll get something in stock but yet i find it at 14 different websites in stock?  Even though i understand that the FFL needs to make something it really does feel like a penalty.  And I really dont mean that to offend anyone here.  Just giving MHO....If the local stores cannot provide the product then you cant blame the customer for looking elsewhere.  Can you?  Same thing with fees.  If i can find a lower fee elsewhere why shouldnt i shop there?

 

I dont care about buying anything in PA thats not the issue. My issue is the op putting the burden on the FFL as the bad guy. as if we are working with the NJSP to delay nics..

 

Its not a penalty. It a fee the ffl charges for his time. a penalty would be mandatory which you cannot avoid IE. tax penalty. the transfer fee is a private party charging another for a service. If you think yours is to expensive find another one.

My closest FFL charges 45 plus the nics but cant even tell me when he'll get something in stock but yet i find it at 14 different websites in stock? 

 

You're in TR and you're not using TJ Sporting Arms?

Not all FFL's charge a lot of money for their services.

I (for example) only charge $25.00 + NICS but this isn't about me, it's about

people who throw mud because they are unhappy with the system.

 

I would think a customer would want to establish a relationship with his/her dealer

and not base every decision solely on the bottom line cost of a particular firearm.

I have many customers who ask for favors, spl requests, ect. and the regulars get

treated like friends / family - Do you get that when you travel out of state for your gun?

I think not!

I dont care about buying anything in PA thats not the issue. My issue is the op putting the burden on the FFL as the bad guy. as if we are working with the NJSP to delay nics..

 

Its not a penalty. It a fee the ffl charges for his time. a penalty would be mandatory which you cannot avoid IE. tax penalty. the transfer fee is a private party charging another for a service. If you think yours is to expensive find another one.

 

Youre right.....I didnt mean to say that the burden was on the FFL...But charging a higher transfer fee because you cant get product in stock for yourself isnt right either.  Youre basically charging me for accepting mail for me...Worth a small fee?  of course....but not so much that it makes the sale not worth the time and effort....Your fee is totally not unreasonable and if i was closer to you i'd be a repeat customer!  Of course there are a few FFLs that charge a lower transfer fee than the closest one to me but still close enough to use.  Its the inconvenience factor that im complaining about.  Im really just venting a bit.  Please dont take offense, I dont mean any.

 

You're in TR and you're not using TJ Sporting Arms?

 

That is absolutely who I will use if i decide to buy something online!  Even better if he had what i was looking for in stock! 

I think FFLs are getting squeezed by the NICs situation. Some of us have stopped purchasing b/c of the ammo shortages and NICs delays; others are purchasing out-of-state; and still others are doing a lot of private transfers/sales of ammo and firearms. FFLS, like any other business, want to turn over inventory fast. And, in my experience (albeit limited), FFLs have ALWAYS taken care of good customers or new customers. IMHO, dealers are suffering right along side us.

 

And to have them complain to their regulators..... Anyone in a regulated business (especially an actively regulated business) knows you need to stay in the regulators good graces unless you want your life to be a living hell. You can't FORCE your regulators to DO anything.

Accepting mail? Hah.

 

Ffl takes 100% of the liability, the hours or work to log the gun, call or fax Nics, see you once or twice, and have your guns take up space in his safe. Then there is the chance you get Nics rejected, or wait months for permits or fid, or your gun is not nj compliant.

 

 

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If the ffl start factoring their time, at 25 a pop, transfers are a loss leader.

 

How do you make a small fortune in the gun business? You start with a big one.

 

The only place you can make decent money is used guns or you start charging for your time

 

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I think your Ducks fell out of row...