Funny how some of those who support the right to bear arms will rush to defend rules forbidding members of the armed forces from bearing arms. If a soldier can't be trusted with a beretta then he or she has no business being in the armed forces in the first place. Like it or not war is hell. And the US has been at war for 12 years now. While people like to think that our wars are limited and surgical, the people we are fighting don't see it that way. It is ridiculous that one person with a gun can cause so much mayhem when surrounded by soldiers and sailors in a military facility of all places. We don't teach all of our soldiers and sailors and airmen to shoot? That is ridiculous! Should be the first thing taught!

 

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not me, I think we should all carry firearms!

Do you ever fly commercially?

 

not lately, and yes it is an infringement of your right.  Prior to the 1960's, your rights were not infringed on commercial flights.

I am just saying any commissioned officer can OC a sidearm at their option.  Many do, but I can understand many not wanting to deal with it for just this reason.

 

In 19 years in the military, I have never seen this.  Maybe it's on the books but just not practiced?  Also note that many units don't have sidearms for all of their officers.  In my National Guard infantry unit, sidearms are only issued to machine gunners to be used as a secondary self-defense weapon, although I think the commander has one.  I think most infantry units only have about 9 or 10 pistols - it's just not that useful of a weapon for what we do.  

 

But like I said before, when not being used in a training environment, I could see those pistols going to staff-level NCOs on a rotating duty basis.  

Options, discretion, rights... 

 

You just don't have a slightest clue how military operates and what it takes to keep the discipline.

Google it or something. 

not lately, and yes it is an infringement of your right.  Prior to the 1960's, your rights were not infringed on commercial flights.

I'm ok with this really and if there were ever a time for 'common sense', this would be one of them.  I don't want firearms on planes but have no problem with you checking them curbside and them flying with you, just not on you.  The potential issues here for non safe actions is just too great inmho

I'm ok with this really and if there were ever a time for 'common sense', this would be one of them. I don't want firearms on planes but have no problem with you checking them curbside and them flying with you, just not on you. The potential issues here for non safe actions is just too great inmho

The NY skyline might look a little different if that right wasn't taken away

I'm ok with this really and if there were ever a time for 'common sense', this would be one of them.  I don't want firearms on planes but have no problem with you checking them curbside and them flying with you, just not on you.  The potential issues here for non safe actions is just too great inmho

 

All I'm saying is that conceding the right is different that thinking you don't have the right. 

 

However, this argument is the exact same argument the anti-movement uses for all disarmament.  Think gun free zones in schools, "The potential issues for non-safe actions is just too great."

 

It's a point of contention, and not everyone is going to agree on it.  The right to keep and bear arms still exists in the air though.  Shall not be infringed is about as clear a mandate as there is in the Constitution.

All I'm saying is that conceding the right is different that thinking you don't have the right. 

gotcha....

The NY skyline might look a little different if that right wasn't taken away

you are right, there could be less buildings and at the very least, a lot less innocent victims that never made their destination.  Also, I left Cantor just prior to 9/11 so don't try and play that angle on me please.

 

respectfully, to suggest we should be allowed to open carry on planes is one of the dumber comments I've seen on this board.  Terrorists could literally create such havoc that they'd be salivating at the stupidity of that measure

They're saying the shooter had a stolen ID and was a Naval Reservist in Ft. Worth until 2 years ago.

If obama had a son, hed look like.........

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't pros to not allowing people to carry firearms on planes.  There's obviously pros, I'm just saying that the right to keep and bear still applies.

 

As far as potential issues, armed Air Marshals discharging their firearms inside a plane to stop terrorists has the same potential for cabin depressurization.  So we rationalize firearms inside planes on a certain level and we have documented proof that even through training, professionals have NDs.    (disclaimer: I'm 100% behind having armed air marshals on aircraft).

They're saying the shooter had a stolen ID and was a Naval Reservist in Ft. Worth until 2 years ago.

 

If this is terror connected, to what great lengths will the media and administration go to downplay that?

you are right, there could be less buildings and at the very least, a lot less innocent victims that never made their destination. Also, I left Cantor just prior to 9/11 so don't try and play that angle on me please.

 

respectfully, to suggest we should be allowed to open carry on planes is one of the dumber comments I've seen on this board. Terrorists could literally create such havoc that they'd be salivating at the stupidity of that measure

I see no reason why a ccw permit isn't good enough. The fact is it was chosen as an easy target. Throw armed people on the flight and they might not have attempted that plan

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't pros to not allowing people to carry firearms on planes. There's obviously pros, I'm just saying that the right to keep and bear still applies.

 

As far as potential issues, armed Air Marshals discharging their firearms inside a plane to stop terrorists has the same potential for cabin depressurization. So we rationalize firearms inside planes on a certain level and we have documented proof that even through training, professionals have NDs. (disclaimer: I'm 100% behind having armed air marshals on aircraft).

Some pilots can carry too.

 

 

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Again, I'm not saying that there aren't pros to not allowing people to carry firearms on planes.  There's obviously pros, I'm just saying that the right to keep and bear still applies.

 

As far as potential issues, armed Air Marshals discharging their firearms inside a plane to stop terrorists has the same potential for cabin depressurization.  So we rationalize firearms inside planes on a certain level and we have documented proof that even through training, professionals have NDs.    (disclaimer: I'm 100% behind having armed air marshals on aircraft).

I get what you are saying and agree in sentiment.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on the armed passengers bit

It's true some pilots do carry. My buddy carries an hk. Has a lock box that looks kinda like a lunch bag

Marines are all trained. Marines are in the dept of navy.

 

 

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The Men's department...

It's true some pilots do carry. My buddy carries an hk. Has a lock box that looks kinda like a lunch bag

I believe after 9/11 they started a program that all commercial pilots can carry if they choose and complete required training.

While this is a very sad event, we must look like a total joke to the rest of the world.  Only in America is the military unarmed.  Can you imagine any military base in China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or anywhere else where the military personnel don't have weapons.  We have become a joke.

 

Washington (CNN) -- The FBI has identified the dead suspect in Monday's shooting rampage at the Washington Navy Yard as Aaron Alexis, 34, a military contractor from Texas.

The suspect was positively identified using fingerprints and ID, the Washington FBI Field Office said, asking members of the public for assistance tracking down information about Alexis.

 

.

 

"No piece of information is too small," said Valerie Parlave, assistant director in charge of the office. "We are looking to learn everything we can about his recent movements, his contacts and associates."

In addition to the gunman, authorities said at least 12 people were killed and about 12 others were injured in the shooting, which put government buildings on lockdown and sent police SWAT teams rushing to the scene.

It's unclear whether another gunman also opened fire at the headquarters for Naval Sea Systems Command -- and why the shooting occurred, Washington Mayor Vincent Gray told reporters.

"We'll continue to seek information about what the motive is. We don't have any reason at this stage to suspect terrorism," he said, "but certainly it has not been ruled out."

Police said one other gunman may be on the loose. Authorities earlier said there could be two gunmen at large, but later said one of them had been cleared.

The other possible suspect described by police -- a black male, between 40 and 50, wearing an "olive drab-colored" military-style uniform -- has not been ruled out, Gray said.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/us/dc-navy-yard-gunshots/

If obama had a son, hed look like.........

 

posts deleted?  wasn't there something on wh shootout?

I am just saying any commissioned officer can OC a sidearm at their option.  Many do, but I can understand many not wanting to deal with it for just this reason.

One of the Naval officers that was interviewed during the day claimed that even with what he called a CAT card ( ? ), he was not permitted to carry his sidearm while there.

There's way more civilian workers at the NY than military folks. It's always that way at big bases with no combat forces, like Fort Monmouth/APG. The USMC barracks right up the street has no problems putting their guys on the street in front of their bldgs. or parking garages with at least M9s and shotguns. They also wander around the area between L, M , I and 7th-8th st. The gates are guarded (I have been there) by DoD police and/or Navy MP. So they guy got on legit with an ID. Supposedly according to some news sources, he came on with a shotgun, killed a guard & took weapons from him and maybe a cop. Developing....

You know how I know you have never been on a military base, anywhere?

While this is a very sad event, we must look like a total joke to the rest of the world.  Only in America is the military unarmed.  Can you imagine any military base in China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or anywhere else where the military personnel don't have weapons.  We have become a joke.

posts deleted?  wasn't there something on wh shootout?

New thread here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/61015-white-house-shots-fired/

 

Posts most likely moved by admin to keep topics seperate.

While this is a very sad event, we must look like a total joke to the rest of the world.  Only in America is the military unarmed.  Can you imagine any military base in China, Russia, North Korea, Iran or anywhere else where the military personnel don't have weapons.  We have become a joke.

 

So what? Who cares? 

But we have "green ammo" program. 

LGBT have fun while in service. 

We have more pacifists military personnel than all militaries in the world combined. 

Oh, and don't forget female infantry - that's the important one.