wanted to test fit some snow tires/wheels on a BMW.    I don't have a stock lug wrench because car came with run flats..  I have a 17mm deep socket that fits but obviously a regular half drive socket is not enough torque.  I have a very long pipe wrench I tried snagging the end of the socket to crank on it..  holy cowwww.. some of the lugs won't budge.   So I need to either buy a REAL 17mm lug wrench or a breaker bar for the 1/2 socket.    Which one will give me the better muscle?  (two hands on break bar or hands + foot on lug wrench?)

 

I kind of couldn't believe the pipe wrench (about 18 inches?) couldn't crack the seal.  But maybe its because the pipe wrench really couldn't get a good grip on the smooth socket (was kinda cock-eyed on it).

 

Yes, I know I could just put a pipe on the end of the socket wrench.. but I don't even have a pipe lying around.. so if I gotta go to Depot/Sears to buy I might as well just buy the RIGHT tool.

 

And I can't just save my back and take the snows to a tire place to put them on for me because I don't own the snow wheels yet, I want to see if they fit before I buy them from a friend.

 

wanted to test fit some snow tires/wheels on a BMW.    I don't have a stock lug wrench because car came with run flats..  I have a 17mm deep socket that fits but obviously a regular half drive socket is not enough torque.  I have a very long pipe wrench I tried snagging the end of the socket to crank on it..  holy cowwww.. some of the lugs won't budge.   So I need to either buy a REAL 17mm lug wrench or a breaker bar for the 1/2 socket.    Which one will give me the better muscle?  (two hands on break bar or hands + foot on lug wrench?)

 

I kind of couldn't believe the pipe wrench (about 18 inches?) couldn't crack the seal.  But maybe its because the pipe wrench really couldn't get a good grip on the smooth socket (was kinda cock-eyed on it).

 

Yes, I know I could just put a pipe on the end of the socket wrench.. but I don't even have a pipe lying around.. so if I gotta go to Depot/Sears to buy I might as well just buy the RIGHT tool.

 

And I can't just save my back and take the snows to a tire place to put them on for me because I don't own the snow wheels yet, I want to see if they fit before I buy them from a friend.

 

Buy an electric impact.  You'll thank yourself every time you do a tire change from now on.   I bought one of those $50 harbor freight ones and have yet to have it not get a lug off.  Obviously if a monkey at a tire shop holds the trigger in with a 600ft lbs 3/4 drive impact, it won't come off, but if torque'd properly, it will.

I always use a breaker bar due to one memorable day when a combination of using my feet and a lug wrench ended up snapping a bunch of wheel studs. Plus, apply the leverage with a breaker bar is practically effortless. An alternative is a gorilla telescoping breaker bar, which is a bit easier to store.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Automotive-1721-Telescoping-Wrench/dp/B000CMJ2KU/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1383518934&sr=1-1&keywords=breaker+bar+gorilla

edit:

sorry didn't read it all, a real lug wrench would be better.. put some Penetrating Oil on there if it still don't go...

Yea, tire shop monkeys whaling the lugs nuts to Cleveland.  WHY?  Had new tires put on the car, tighten the lug nut so tight when I went to rotate the tires the stud twisted right off. What a b**** to replace.  Had to take the hub off to press out the old, and install the replacement.  $2 stud cost me a day on the driveway and a front end alignment after the hub was put back on!  Never again, mount and balance my tires, I'll put them on the car.  Glad I didn't get a flat and had to change tire on the road, I would have been super p******d then.

Breaker bar.

You're really over thinking it.

 

Buy whatever you like. If your socket is a six point of reputable manufacture either buy a breaker bar or lug wrench. If you're using a crap socket save yourself money and buy a light wrench. Really doesn't make a difference.

 

I'll also politely disagree with Malusa. Electric tools can fail, and Harbor Freight is garbage. I'm not trying to be pompous, but I've probably taken more wheels on/off than most people here and it's really not that hard. You don't need power tools. Unless I'm on the clock or necessary, I'll never use power tools on cars.

When your done put some anti seize on the studs before you screw on the lugnuts. You will thank me next time you try to remove them.

 

I'll also politely disagree with Malusa. Electric tools can fail, and Harbor Freight is garbage. I'm not trying to be pompous, but I've probably taken more wheels on/off than most people here and it's really not that hard. You don't need power tools. Unless I'm on the clock or necessary, I'll never use power tools on cars.

 

Harbor freight is, for the most part garbage but  I've take a lot of wheels off with my $50 tool.  I also have an old air impact that will take off anything...but then I have to get out the compressor, hose, etc.

 

It's not so much an issue of how hard it is, it's simply the amount of time you save.  I had my cheapy fail once...took the end off and the spring mechanism needed a little persuasion...and it's worked for years since.

I had the same problem on my old BMW years ago and used a big ass breaker bar.  After that I always told the tire shops that said "No customers in the Shop due to insurance regs" that they could go F'-themselves and monitored the monkey and made sure he used a torque wrench when tightening the lug nuts.

BMW's don't use lug studs and nuts, they use lug bolts. If you break them, it usually shears the head of the bolt right off, leaving the threaded part in the hub. It usually spins right out by hand.

 

Just use a breaker bar and a 17mm deep 1/2" drive socket. Those bolts should only be torqued to about 80 ft-lb.

 

To answer your question, yes, a standard length "socket wrench" (obsolete but accurate term for a ratchet) is inadequate to tighten and loosen lugnuts or lug bolts.

hmm... majority on here is saying breaker bar..  but I talked to an old friend who used to work at a body shop and he told me "a real 4X lug wrench will work better than the breaker bar but get a real 4X big one that is like 20" across, not those whimpy mini ones.   You can do a push/pull plus you can sit on your butt and get a hand and foot on it too.."

 

So I think i'm gonna check autozone or Pep Boys, whatever is around me.   If I can't find a mega size 4X then I will go the breaker route..   cost is about the same.

 

Of course the real impact driver is the way to go..  but once I get these bolts cracked they will never be on so tight again that I wont be able to get them off by hand..

 

i'll let you guys know for laughs how this turns out..

Breaker bar, the lugnutz at a local shop installed tires on my truck 5 years ago and two weeks later i went to put new brake shoes on the truck and i had to use an 8ft pipe over the bar to loosen the lug nuts.. I went back after breaking the 1st set loose and drove back and  asked them to break the rest free, came out with his air gun which would not loosen them. thats when i handed him the bar and pipe and watched him break them loose.. fug nutz.. i was pissed.. 

I'll also politely disagree with Malusa. Electric tools can fail, and Harbor Freight is garbage. I'm not trying to be pompous, but I've probably taken more wheels on/off than most people here and it's really not that hard. You don't need power tools. Unless I'm on the clock or necessary, I'll never use power tools on cars.

 

I've got a 1/2" Craftsman 19V battery powered impact gun.  I keep it charged and in my truck.  When you get a flat and its raining/snowing out; you want to get the job done as quick as possible.

I use a impact gun to take the lug nuts off or a breaker bar. They go back on with a torque wrench.

 

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You don't need power tools. Unless I'm on the clock or necessary, I'll never use power tools on cars.

You don't need 30 rounds either or a semiauto. A single shot will get the job done.

 

Do u see how foolish that sounds?

get a breaker bar but get a good one, its a world of difference. If your tires are put on at a shop with an impact youll need the extra torque since most of the time torque sticks arent used. When i mean get a good one, invest in a brand where the head fits INSIDE the hand not the kinds where the head straddles the handle if you can imagine what im saying. 

Few years ago, I was changing over to my winter tires, and one of my lug nuts was on so tight that I spun, then sheared, the handle of the lug wrench off.  Tried a larger ratcheting wrench and a pipe over the handle, broke that wrench.   Borrowed my grandfather's air impact wrench and was still no go.  Next day, I went to Pep Boys a minute down the road from work and asked about having them remove that...they refused.  Had to make a special trip to my normal mechanic to get the damn lug off, and it came off in seconds for them.

 

That's what I get for being lazy and going to somewhere cheap.

 

I really need to get a Craftsman impact wrench (and an impact driver, too.)

 

I'm hoping that I don't encounter this issue again, because I'm switching to my winters in the next few days....

No matter what tools you have at home,always loosen the lugs after having tires changed at a tire shop and tighen them with whatever you carry in the car. Chances are that is all you will have unless you get a flat in your driveway. And anti seize compound is your friend.

Do mechanics in NJ not believe in using torque sticks with impacts?  Good grief, I'd be taking my car to a different shop if I saw someone with just an impact putting my lug nuts back on.

A breaker bar and a 4x lug wrench are the same exact thing.. the breaker bar just has a drive adapter for interchangeability. your not gaining anything use one over the other, the breaker bar will be much more versatile for other jobs.

You don't need 30 rounds either or a semiauto. A single shot will get the job done.

 

Do u see how foolish that sounds?

 

You don't use an AK with a 30 round mag to shoot at 500 yards either 

 

I've had Snap-On pneumatic impact guns fail on me. My arms have yet to. People act like removing a wheel is science or extremely difficult, it really isn't. 

 

*For the record, I love impact guns. Used properly, they're great. Guarantee you though that the people working on your car at your mechanic/dealer probably aren't doing things 'right' though. People use pneumatic tools far too often IMHO.

A breaker bar and a 4x lug wrench are the same exact thing.. the breaker bar just has a drive adapter for interchangeability. your not gaining anything use one over the other, the breaker bar will be much more versatile for other jobs.

A breaker bar and impact socket are stronger that a 4X lug wrench. The socket end tends to split on the 4X lug wrench..

 

What Sucks most when you break it and still have 3 other sockets that do not fit..

You don't need 30 rounds either or a semiauto. A single shot will get the job done.

 

Do u see how foolish that sounds?

 

 

You don't use an AK with a 30 round mag to shoot at 500 yards either 

 

I've had Snap-On pneumatic impact guns fail on me. My arms have yet to. People act like removing a wheel is science or extremely difficult, it really isn't. 

 

*For the record, I love impact guns. Used properly, they're great. Guarantee you though that the people working on your car at your mechanic/dealer probably aren't doing things 'right' though. People use pneumatic tools far too often IMHO.

 

I agree. Too many people are lazy and use the wrong tool for a job. Dealers and shops are the worst offenders and they are supposed to be the 'pros'.

 

Using hand tools on the overwhelming majority of mechanical work will save you headaches. Not foolish, just fact.

OP.....

 

If you end up having trouble getting correct tools.....   Let me know. You can come by the shop and I will get them off, and then torque em back on for you....

A breaker bar and a 4x lug wrench are the same exact thing.. the breaker bar just has a drive adapter for interchangeability. your not gaining anything use one over the other, the breaker bar will be much more versatile for other jobs.

 

Actually, one is in the form of an 'X', the other is a more like an 'I'. One you can easily slip a section of pipe over it to give you more leverage, the other would be a pain to do so. Then there's the two things in your own statement that I underlined.

 

So I guess they aren't 'the same exact thing'.

If it's an e9x the spec is 95 ft-lbs. That's a lot, plus add in a bit of corrosion or galling and it's a chore. I broke two ratcheting wrenches on mine and tore a 1/2-3/8 adapter (!!!). I have a pneumatic impact wrench and it will typically not be able to remove those bolts.

 

I have a breaker bar AND a 4x lug wrench but I always use the breaker. It's about 1.5' handle and for the rare times that's not enough I have some iron pipe to make the handle even longer. Plus since it's not a gigantic "plus" symbol, it's easier to put away.

Actually, one is in the form of an 'X', the other is a more like an 'I'. One you can easily slip a section of pipe over it to give you more leverage, the other would be a pain to do so. Then there's the two things in your own statement that I underlined.

 

So I guess they aren't 'the same exact thing'.

They both offer leverage to remove bolts. They both perform the same job. The x design is not really a good design, the torque an force is in the middle of the wrench. As with a breaker the force is right at the pivot point behind the socket. Are they the exact same thing. Absolutely not. Do they do the exact same thing. Yes. That's what I was getting at.

Take it back to the dealer let them loosen them. Most reputable shops use what they call torque sticks to put the tires back on. They can do it right on the ground one at time. Most all shops torque them down for insurance purposes. I've been in the business for a long time.  

Great thread huh?

 

I wish everything was as simple a "take it back to the dealer". But i have a desk job far away. Each stop at a dealer loses me over half a day.