Fred2 you have the best avatar on this board. Uncle Floyd ruled when I was a kid.

Exactly. Thats what happens in a state with almost 1.5 million gun owners, where ONLY 16% of eligible voters actually did so in our last election.

That's an embarrassment ...

That's an embarrassment ..

We need better organization to make a change. We should really be able to make a difference in off year elections.

 

Fred2 you have the best avatar on this board. Uncle Floyd ruled when I was a kid.

 

Thanks!  I was watching him when I was in my college years.

(The parkway man takes a quarter from your hand, Deep in the heart, of Jersey)

We need better organization to make a change. We should really be able to make a difference in off year elections

I agree....I can't remember an election I haven't voted in (while in conus)

Fred2 you have the best avatar on this board. Uncle Floyd ruled when I was a kid.

I second that nomination...

yeah, this. If you were at or saw the videos of the Feb 2013 hearings, the rabid gun haters are all old- ish (not much older than me, actually) Boomer lefties, for the most part, 65 or older. I don't count the politicians like BIG BUTTS LOVIN whatsis name or drunk lush Cryan, or Lou ' I want to be Obama' Greenwald, they will always be with us and will shift their opinions whichever way  the wind blows as soon as they get off the Porn sites, off the bottle, or away from the mirror

You guys really need stop this crud and "woe is me" kinda attitude.  The candidate "obvious" 3 years ahead almost never wins. The tide on guns is turning into our favor.

 

Stop whining and keep fighting. All these antigunners are old, and nature has a way of dealing with that problem. We have minted a LOT more new gun owners in the last couple of years, so how about you guys concentrate on getting them into the fight?

yeah, this. If you were at or saw the videos of the Feb 2013 hearings, the rabid gun haters are all old- ish (not much older than me, actually) Boomer lefties, for the most part, 65 or older. I don't count the politicians like BIG BUTTS LOVIN whatsis name or drunk lush Cryan, or Lou ' I want to be Obama' Greenwald, they will always be with us and will shift their opinions whichever way  the wind blows as soon as they get off the Porn sites, off the bottle, or away from the mirror

I have a different memory of the antis at the Trenton and Camden events I was at.....I saw 30-45 yo soccer moms....repeating the Facebook posts they have committed to memory , the usual Bryan miller crew......a mix of young/old black minister/community activists(like the one that got arrested in ny for carrying) in the Camden Christi violence study committee (or whatever it was called) event.... The 50-60 yos I saw were the pro gun guys ....

I have a different memory of the antis at the Trenton and Camden events I was at.....I saw 30-45 yo soccer moms....repeating the Facebook posts they have committed to memory , the usual Bryan miller crew......a mix of young/old black minister/community activists(like the one that got arrested in ny for carrying) in the Camden Christi violence study committee (or whatever it was called) event.... The 50-60 yos I saw were the pro gun guys ....

 

You seriously weren't paying attention then. The pro-gun crowd was far younger then the antis. Sure there we plenty of older people in on the pro-side as well, but the only young people on the anti side were professional activists.

Yes, ALL the anti-Moms and 30-45ers at the task force hearings were Bloomberg shills repeating the same pap over and over. They tried, unsuccessfully, to generate sympathy by generating fake fear of us--the Morristown council lady that was so 'scared' she almost got up and walked away, and at one task force some lady asked for a police escort because she was afraid she would be killed. Drama queens, all. 

 

You seriously weren't paying attention then. The pro-gun crowd was far younger then the antis. Sure there we plenty of older people in on the pro-side as well, but the only young people on the anti side were professional activists.

You seriously weren't paying attention then. The pro-gun crowd was far younger then the antis. Sure there we plenty of older people in on the pro-side as well, but the only young people on the anti side were professional activists.

After rereading my post I see where my point wasn't clear.....I agree there were young people on the pro side....and possibly that the youngest overall speaking may have been on the pro side.....I wasn't paying that much attention to specific age...simply more or less "old or young"... .what I meant in my original post was that the only 60ish yos I saw at the Camden meeting were on the pro side.....the oldest I saw speaking on the anti side was Brian Miller .....I'd guess him to be late 40s-mid 50s...........and at the Trenton snow/sleet rally I'd say average age was 30someting...sure there were 20yos...but there was also just as many grizzled 60yos in NRA trucker hats as youngins.......in the hearings I saw the same cross sections.....and disagree with the notion that the antis are all "old people about to die and we are about to take the lead".... There's just as many college aged and younger antis either being used as props by 30-40 somethings or in the Facebook/college groups "I wanna have a cause" bobble head/parrot cults.....

I believe all the schools are run by and employing liberals with their heads in the sand and THAT is who is influencing the young; and in another generation they will have much greater numbers than us. I raised two girls who have heard me preach on gun ownership and pro second amendment their entire lives. But after going through the school systems now they're both antigun and anti hunting ...go figure. And I had this conversation with a bunch of friends that are like minded to us and they all have the same experience.

 

 

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I believe all the schools are run by and employing liberals with their heads in the sand and THAT is who is influencing the young; and in another generation they will have much greater numbers than us. I raised two girls who have heard me preach on gun ownership and pro second amendment their entire lives. But after going through the school systems now they're both antigun and anti hunting ...go figure. And I had this conversation with a bunch of friends that are like minded to us and they all have the same experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the scary fact.....pier/social pressure usually outweigh parents on things like political/social views......what is the answer.....we can't vote the enemy out of office...how can we change the psyops in school?

I believe all the schools are run by and employing liberals with their heads in the sand and THAT is who is influencing the young; and in another generation they will have much greater numbers than us. I raised two girls who have heard me preach on gun ownership and pro second amendment their entire lives. But after going through the school systems now they're both antigun and anti hunting ...go figure. And I had this conversation with a bunch of friends that are like minded to us and they all have the same experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When this happens I always explain to my children, that no one has their best interests in mind than I do. Then I follow with a history and current events lesson. Then I close with the because you have the luxury of living with the freedoms that others fought for, you have no right to surrender it back. Fortunately my daughter understand this and I find now they advocate these things at least semi publicly with their friends.

When this happens I always explain to my children, that no one has their best interests in mind than I do. Then I follow with a history and current events lesson. Then I close with the because you have the luxury of living with the freedoms that others fought for, you have no right to surrender it back. Fortunately my daughter understand this and I find now they advocate these things at least semi publicly with their friends.

How old are your kids?

 

 

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Consider that you might have been over preaching.

 

I see who the new gun owners are at the range. Most are collage educated 20 somethings.

How old are your kids?

 

 

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My girls are 18 & 20 now. Been discussing serious topics since 14 and 16. I brought my wife and daughters to Trenton last year when gun control legislation was proposed. I asked my daughters to write a short summary. I then showed them articles on the topic from the typical NJ rags fronting as information. They were shocked at the distortions and half truths and outright lies. Although they missed a day at school, they received a great lesson from the experience (be suspect of what you read and hear and investigate further, before you formulate an opinion).

Yeah mine are 18 and 25 ...I'm not as good a dad. The younger one used to like to shoot BB guns and stuff when she was little but now is totally sold on the anti gun propaganda since Sandy Hook and doesn't see how they've just use a horrific event to further their agenda.

 

 

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This is the scary fact.....pier/social pressure usually outweigh parents on things like political/social views......what is the answer.....we can't vote the enemy out of office...how can we change the psyops in school?

Home school

How old are your kids?

 

 

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I'm fortunate that mine are open minded enough to appreciate logic and reason. Emotionally driven arguments are fatal to a free country and are detrimental to the rule of law. Just keep trying to talk and maybe something will stick. Most people, especially the young need to have life-experience catch up to their intellect before they understand.

Home school

I always was under the impression that home schooling was tough to get approved/or whatever as well as quite costly in comparison....and still have to pay the school tax ....I don't have kids...so I really don't have first hand knowledge about the liberal/progressive push in the schools..just from what friends kids say and what their parents tell me..(aside from the typical right wing media sources) and I've browsed through some current history/social studies books...and was amazed at the difference in comparison to the content in the books used in my school days...

A ruling is just that, a ruling, but that doesn't mean there won't be an appeal. Also, the ruling from what I understand was ruled for San Diego County, not California as a whole. Is there any guarantee that this ruling will effect citizens of the rest of California? (Serious question as I'm not as knowledged as some of you guys are)

 

NO, the ruling is for the 9th circuit. Also, California has state pre-emption. The law in san diego is the law of the state, not any smaller entity. Otherwise it would have been shut down at the state court level as has happened with SF bans on firearm ownership time and again. They don't give a crap about 2a, but they do care about their chain of legal authority. IF it stands, than not only would any other case in California come upon this a precedent and lose badly, anything similar in any other 9th circuit court area could. Like say... Hawaii. The court order doesn't direct Hiwaii directly, but all it would take is a suit against the state. With a standing decision by the 9th, the state supreme court would be increadibly stupid to waste the time and money taking it there to lose. 

NO, the ruling is for the 9th circuit. Also, California has state pre-emption. The law in san diego is the law of the state, not any smaller entity. Otherwise it would have been shut down at the state court level as has happened with SF bans on firearm ownership time and again. They don't give a crap about 2a, but they do care about their chain of legal authority. IF it stands, than not only would any other case in California come upon this a precedent and lose badly, anything similar in any other 9th circuit court area could. Like say... Hawaii. The court order doesn't direct Hiwaii directly, but all it would take is a suit against the state. With a standing decision by the 9th, the state supreme court would be increadibly stupid to waste the time and money taking it there to lose. 

 

The problem with suing the state, is they do not care what it costs, as it is not "their" money

After rereading my post I see where my point wasn't clear.....I agree there were young people on the pro side....and possibly that the youngest overall speaking may have been on the pro side.....I wasn't paying that much attention to specific age...simply more or less "old or young"... .what I meant in my original post was that the only 60ish yos I saw at the Camden meeting were on the pro side.....the oldest I saw speaking on the anti side was Brian Miller .....I'd guess him to be late 40s-mid 50s...........and at the Trenton snow/sleet rally I'd say average age was 30someting...sure there were 20yos...but there was also just as many grizzled 60yos in NRA trucker hats as youngins.......in the hearings I saw the same cross sections.....and disagree with the notion that the antis are all "old people about to die and we are about to take the lead".... There's just as many college aged and younger antis either being used as props by 30-40 somethings or in the Facebook/college groups "I wanna have a cause" bobble head/parrot cults.....

 

Did you make it out to any of the panel sessions for the governor's task force? There weren't really any young anits, and the age of the anti representatives definitely went all the way up to old fart level. There were even some old farts at the committee hearing in trenton on the anti side. I'd make the same call as you with the rallies hitting an average age in the mid-thirties. However, the youngest anti folks in large attendance were 40 something soccer moms, and they did have less 60+ types. So, not only were we pulling in more actively concerned young people, we were pulling in a broader demographic.

The problem with suing the state, is they do not care what it costs, as it is not "their" money

 

Yes, but even if they don't care about the money, they do care about a guaranteed loss and having their ruling declared as a steaming pile of poop in great detail by someone more respected in said career path than themselves. It was probably unclear, but I'm not talking about the state refusing to take it to court, they would. That's kind of inherent in the bringing suit bit. I'm referring to the judge at the state level being willing to simultaneously piss away state funds on a lost cause, and to hitch his cart to some epic level dumbassery guaranteed to fail. 

Did you make it out to any of the panel sessions for the governor's task force? There weren't really any young anits, and the age of the anti representatives definitely went all the way up to old fart level. There were even some old farts at the committee hearing in trenton on the anti side. I'd make the same call as you with the rallies hitting an average age in the mid-thirties. However, the youngest anti folks in large attendance were 40 something soccer moms, and they did have less 60+ types. So, not only were we pulling in more actively concerned young people, we were pulling in a broader demographic.

i was at the camden task force and thats where i said brian miller was in my opinion the oldest anti that spoke...i saw no antis speaking that looked to be over millers age.....however.there were several high school aged "locals" speaking on the anti side....the youngest that spoke on the pro side was probably late 20s......but this the cross section i witnessed at the camden one...

Vlad G and company have noon smoking too much medical Mary Jane. NJ is a corrupt and vicious society. All of these comments assume the powers that be will adhere to law. It will never happen.

Vlad G and company have noon smoking too much medical Mary Jane. NJ is a corrupt and vicious society. All of these comments assume the powers that be will adhere to law. It will never happen.

 

You mean after a court order? You really have no idea how this works I guess. If they flat out refuse, the courts don't take it too kindly at all. They'll assign monitors and basically people to look over NJ's shoulder to make sure they are complying. Trust me, disobeying a court order will not be worth it for them. 

Oh I know how it works. They will come up with something.

Oh I know how it works. They will come up with something.

We'll get a preview with what happens in CA. My guess is yearly, expensive renewal requirements with FID-like turnaround times, coupled with expansive gun-free zones. (E.g., 1000 yard radius around schools, churches, public parks, etc) to the point where CCW will be a practical impossibility

Yup. They will make it so hard (basically like they have now but in a different manner) that there will need to be another court decision to change it again. It will be one endless loop.