I'm new. Maybe I misread the rules. Apologies. 

 

 

Welcome to the site. BTW, I used to live in Marlton,NJ behind the Pep boys---I see you're from Cherry Hill, are you close to there?

A little bit away, but I know exactly where that is! 

My neighbor has a 130 pound German Sheppard, Rocky, who comes to the property line when I get home and waits happily for me to throw a stick for him. I usually have a stick to toss and I pat him on the head before coming in my house. If I walk over there and punch the dog he will fight back, and any semi-intelligent person would say I deserved to get bit for hitting a dog on its own property. When any creature gets too close to a bear cub momma bear comes running to protect her cub. Piss off a bee, get stung. God has given every animal, including humans, a drive to protect themselves.

I agree that some people dismiss anything that "God" is attached to. A coupe people may listen a little longer if "Natural Right" or "Human Right" replaced "God given right".

Pork roll, not Taylor Ham.

The right to defend ones life is a "natural right". All animals will defend themselves to the end. There is no reason why humans should accept laws that diminish that natural right.

The right to defend ones life is a "natural right". All animals will defend themselves to the end. There is no reason why humans should accept laws that diminish that natural right.

 

Some would say you don't need a fire arm to satisfy that argument. 

Some would say you don't need a fire arm to satisfy that argument. 

 

I would respond that the gun is the great equalizer.  It doesn't matter if the attacker is bigger, smaller, or more physically fit.  Or of the attacker has a hammer, knife or gun.  The gun makes it at least a fair fight.

I would respond that the gun is the great equalizer.  It doesn't matter if the attacker is bigger, smaller, or more physically fit.  Or of the attacker has a hammer, knife or gun.  The gun makes it at least a fair fight.

 

I happen to agree with you 100%. 

I think whether you believe its a "God given" right, or an "natural" right, the sentiment is same. Its not something granted and created by man. Its simply a right we are born with.

 

And as others said, the 2A is just how we decided to protect that right from being infringed by anyone. Regardless of what you think it's origin to be.

 

As far as the PR issue of the OPs post, I think religion is looked at by the left the same way they look at guns. They detest both. If anyone wants to say self defense is God given, they should say it. When we start accommodating the sensibilities of those who want to take things from us, we've lost something already. In fact its worse. We've -given- it away. So as a Catholic, I am comfortable saying to the God hating Antis... GFY.

A lot of Leviticus 20?

A lot of the bible shouldn't be taken literally. Some, yes. Other parts, no. Someone here has a sig with a bible quote..not in this thread...that is always taken out of context. Can't recall who but it was about striking back, down, or something like that. Wish i cld remember what it was...lol

I am an atheist, but I could care less if the letter said god given right or natural right. I also don't care if out money says "In God We Trust" and I have no problems saying the word in the Pledge of Allegiance.  There is no need for metaphysical discussion of who created what and gave rights how.  I don't need a magical character or a fictional book describing the explits of said character telling me I have the right to protect myself.  Its a simple physiological response to a stimuli.  In this case, the aggression of another animal be it bipedal or not.  Should I choose to fight and not flee, I want to have the best tools needed to win the fight.  In most case, that would be a firearm.  Therefore, I have the right to carry a pistol on me if I choose to do so.  The fact that asshole elected officials feel that I am not worthy of self preservation is disgusting.  Their hypocrisy of carrying firearms themselves should be cause of public shaming if not worse. 

I am an atheist, but I could care less if the letter said god given right or natural right. I also don't care if out money says "In God We Trust" and I have no problems saying the word in the Pledge of Allegiance.  There is no need for metaphysical discussion of who created what and gave rights how.  I don't need a magical character or a fictional book describing the explits of said character telling me I have the right to protect myself.  Its a simple physiological response to a stimuli.  In this case, the aggression of another animal be it bipedal or not.  Should I choose to fight and not flee, I want to have the best tools needed to win the fight.  In most case, that would be a firearm.  Therefore, I have the right to carry a pistol on me if I choose to do so.  The fact that asshole elected officials feel that I am not worthy of self preservation is disgusting.  Their hypocrisy of carrying firearms themselves should be cause of public shaming if not worse. 

 

Brilliantly stated. 

A lot of the bible shouldn't be taken literally. Some, yes. Other parts, no. Someone here has a sig with a bible quote..not in this thread...that is always taken out of context. Can't recall who but it was about striking back, down, or something like that. Wish i cld remember what it was...lol

I don't care either way. I was raised a catholic but am not a religious person now. I was just answering a question.

I don't care either way. I was raised a catholic but am not a religious person now. I was just answering a question.

 

No problem. Just pointing something out.

 

I the pope keeps up the global warming stuff, I may switch to that religion of the underground dwellers in Planet of the Apes.  Church of the Cobolt Bomb was it???

Cmjeepster. I agree with your post.

A lot of the bible shouldn't be taken literally. Some, yes. Other parts, no. Someone here has a sig with a bible quote..not in this thread...that is always taken out of context. Can't recall who but it was about striking back, down, or something like that. Wish i cld remember what it was...lol

I don't recall anything in the Bible saying you have a right to defend yourself. In fact Jesus says to turn the other cheek, and forgive someone 7x7x7 times. Which frankly is why it's impossible to be a Christian IMO.

 

OTOH a significant portion of literature and art involves good people vanquishing assholes. David vs. Goliath, every cop show ever produced. Even in today's twisted moral environment the loony left sees nothing wrong in vanquishing their "evil" enemies, to the point of calling for their incarceration or execution. 

 

That sort of thing is ingrained in the human psyche. "God given right" is shorthand for "Duhh whaddya kidding? Of course we have a right to defend ourselves."

I don't recall anything in the Bible saying you have a right to defend yourself. In fact Jesus says to turn the other cheek, and forgive someone 7x7x7 times. Which frankly is why it's impossible to be a Christian IMO.

 

OTOH a significant portion of literature and art involves good people vanquishing assholes. David vs. Goliath, every cop show ever produced. Even in today's twisted moral environment the loony left sees nothing wrong in vanquishing their "evil" enemies, to the point of calling for their incarceration or execution.

 

That sort of thing is ingrained in the human psyche. "God given right" is shorthand for "Duhh whaddya kidding? Of course we have a right to defend ourselves."

??? ... There's a lot of ass-kickin going on in the bible. David vs. Goliath is from the bible by the way. Book of Samuel.

 

As far as self defense, your understanding of Christianity is flawed Newt. In fact, God requires Christians to defend themselves and others. Its in various places in the bible. The forgive 7x7x7 isnt about someone killing you. After the act, it would be a little tough to get onto that forgiving part since you are dead.

 

And There are NT passages that indicate Jesus supports open carry.

I have always understood the command "If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." to mean that you should not seek revenge or escalate a situation when confronted with evil.  Contextually, just prior to the command, Jesus says “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person."  He was citing the law of that time--eye-for-eye--and saying that just because you have legal claim on someone does not mean you should use it.  But rather it is better to exercise mercy, forgive and let it go rather than seeking revenge.  Just be cause you can do something, does not mean that you should.

 

As Paul also says, "I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive [or beneficial.]" I Cor 10:23

I do not think this precludes defending oneself or others against violence and evil.

 

However, I am not familiar with any NT or OT passages that discuss the relative merits of OC vs. CCW or Glock vs. 1911 ;-)

I am an atheist, but I could care less if the letter said god given right or natural right. I also don't care if out money says "In God We Trust" and I have no problems saying the word in the Pledge of Allegiance.  There is no need for metaphysical discussion of who created what and gave rights how.  I don't need a magical character or a fictional book describing the explits of said character telling me I have the right to protect myself.  Its a simple physiological response to a stimuli.  In this case, the aggression of another animal be it bipedal or not.  Should I choose to fight and not flee, I want to have the best tools needed to win the fight.  In most case, that would be a firearm.  Therefore, I have the right to carry a pistol on me if I choose to do so.  The fact that asshole elected officials feel that I am not worthy of self preservation is disgusting.  Their hypocrisy of carrying firearms themselves should be cause of public shaming if not worse. 

 

Very well said Alex.

@leahcim

 

Luke, John, Exodus and elsewhere. Poke around. You'll find it. Even in Psalms.

??? ... There's a lot of ass-kickin going on in the bible. David vs. Goliath is from the bible by the way. Book of Samuel.

 

As far as self defense, your understanding of Christianity is flawed Newt. In fact, God requires Christians to defend themselves and others. Its in various places in the bible. The forgive 7x7x7 isnt about someone killing you. After the act, it would be a little tough to get onto that forgiving part since you are dead.

 

And There are NT passages that indicate Jesus supports open carry.

Since you are the biblical scholar please quote chapter/verse quoting this god-given right -- or command as you indicate -- to self defense.

 

Jesus supported open carry? I'm curious where that scripture is as well.

Since you are the biblical scholar please quote chapter/verse quoting this god-given right -- or command as you indicate -- to self defense.

 

Jesus supported open carry? I'm curious where that scripture is as well.

I never said i was a biblical scholar.

 

Self defense and defense of others

 

Psalm 82 - Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

 

Exodus 22 - If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.

 

 

 

Carrying a weapon.

 

Luke 22 : 36..

 

 

And I'm not preaching here. If you knew me, that would sound ridiculous. I just saw something that i think is incorrect...so i corrected it.

I never said i was a biblical scholar.

 

Self defense and defense of others

 

Psalm 82 - Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

 

Exodus 22 - If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.

 

 

 

Carrying a weapon.

 

Luke 22 : 36..

 

 

And I'm not preaching here. If you knew me, that would sound ridiculous. I just saw something that i think is incorrect...so i corrected it.

Great if you were preparing Hillary for her first debate but that verse is the most anti-defense scripture you can find. You're being tortured and murdered, you have the power to fuKK everybody up just by sending one thought heaven-ward, but you let it go. 

 

Where does the Bible say you have a god-given right to self defense? Come up with something and I'll be the first to acknowledge you're right.

 

God-given right is not the same as "It's in the bible."

I don't care who acknowledges i'm right or who says that I'm wrong. Read it however you'd like.

 

I don't which verse you're referring to, but nothing i referenced reads like you say.

 

How do you read something that says you will have no guilt if you kill a burglar in your home at night as an anti self defense statement?

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/expand_god-given_right_to_carry_firearm_in_nj_lett.html

So above I put the link to a letter submitted to NJ.com from a subscriber saying NJ should have ccw because it's a god given right. First off I'm not an extremely religious person but I have friends and family that are and have no problems with religion.....but I believe everytime a gun owner uses the "god given right" line it hurts our entire cause. Most Liberals are not religious and mostly atheist and they will rip the line to pieces in two seconds.NJ.com new exactly what they were doing when publishing this letter and using "god given right" in the headline. They used this letter to make all gun owners look like nut jobs. Does anyone else feel this way ?

I think the phrase "Basic Human Right" should be used - the liberals like to talk about human rights a lot.

I think the phrase "Basic Human Right" should be used - the liberals like to talk about human rights a lot.

As soon as one side decides the wording and the other side begins using the battle is 1/2 lost.   Assault Weapon,  Large Capacity Magazines, High Powered Rifle to describe .223  etc

 

Hows about we use the words from the founding of the US:

 

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the t is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it ..."

 

This is not a personal shot at Oakridge.  But, If anyone has a problem with he words and concepts of God/Creator feel free to move to a country that doesn't have those concepts in its founding documents.

I think the phrase "Basic Human Right" should be used - the liberals like to talk about human rights a lot.

I think they don't decide what words we use.

 

Pete, you got it right in my opinion. Its not about defending Christianity. Though that's fine. If we let them define what's acceptable and we abide by their demands, we affirm the basis of their argument.

 

I don't really give a damn what offends the sensibilities of gun hating liberals. If we're worried about them defining us as crazy bible thumping religious zealots if God is mentioned... I have a news flash for you. They already think we're a bunch of brainless, hillbilly, gun loving, wild west wanna-be neanderthals.

 

Parsing words isn't going to win them over. And I don't intend to give up one @%#$@& inch of what i believe to satisfy them.

 

And why we we allow leftists to get away with a bigoted act like referring to anyone of faith as a "nut job".

 

 

And I'm not singling out Oakridge either.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/expand_god-given_right_to_carry_firearm_in_nj_lett.html

So above I put the link to a letter submitted to NJ.com from a subscriber saying NJ should have ccw because it's a god given right. First off I'm not an extremely religious person but I have friends and family that are and have no problems with religion.....but I believe everytime a gun owner uses the "god given right" line it hurts our entire cause. Most Liberals are not religious and mostly atheist and they will rip the line to pieces in two seconds.NJ.com new exactly what they were doing when publishing this letter and using "god given right" in the headline. They used this letter to make all gun owners look like nut jobs. Does anyone else feel this way ?

Maybe they did it exactly for that purpose but who cares? The concept of God with a capital G is not yet so unacceptable that that particular letter didn't resonate with anyone. People who believe in God liked the touch. People who don't think we're all crazy anyway, for a long list of reasons.

 

That being said I do object to using God to justify sanity in firearm law to a committee of democrats who hate firearms and think the notion of a deity to be quaint at best. It doesn't get you anywhere. The best justification today, in 2015, is experience in other states:

 

"Do you feel threatened when you visit Pennsylvania? When you're skiing in Vermont? At your dacha in upstate NY? Do you fear for the life of your child who attends Dartmouth, the University of New Hampshire, or William and Mary? Does fear of guns cause you to wear an adult diaper while sitting on the lawn at Tanglewood? Are you afraid to come out of the water at the Outer Banks because someone on the beach may have a handgun?"

When you boil it down, you could claim Luke Skywalker bestowed the right..... No one is convincing an anti gun liberal to say yes to guns in any way. Any attempt using any justification is a pointless exercise. The only thing that matters is the number of people who are pro gun among those who make or rule on the law. Ie..the makeup of the legislature or the makeup of a court.

 

This issue of using God... Or not.. Is irrelevant.

Aren't we not supposed to discuss religion on these forums? 

 

No, I'm not joking. 

It is 'thou shall not murder' it is not thou shall not kill. there is a difference, self-defense is allowed by the T*r*h. In fact if someone breaks into your house when you are sleeping, you should strike them down, they are not there to steal, they are there to harm you and your family. It is rights avowed by the creator, Jefferson was a deist as were many of the founding fathers. Yes and a F&AS Mason, same wording. I may not believe the same as you, but I will defend your right to believe as you wish