I use the Onix for radiant with Viega controls. If there was any Pex I would trust it would be theirs. The HePex lawsuits are going to surpass Polypropylene. Wirsbo, Zurn, and IPEX. I stay away from all Pex piping. The potable lawsuits will be next. Propress is good stuff, but very expensive. I have the Copper Press but rarely use it. Never got the gas press.

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I press everything. Can't remember last time I used my torch, except to Braze in AC linesets. Expensive doesn't bother me, the customer is paying for it. I just want to use good stuff I don't have to worry about call backs on. Pex on potable water with plastic fittings is fine. I just wouldn't use brass on it. I've seen so many fittings just snapped in half from acidic water. Usually it's the cheap Quest crap with the cinch rings. I haven't had any issues with Viega. But you're correct i is super expensive in comparison, to the cheap shit everyone else sells. I don't hate Wirsbo itself, I just hate working with it. Those stupid expanding rings are a pain in the balls when it's cold out. I have the expander tool, but I never use the stuff.

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I think the Pex lawsuits are going to be more cancer related. There have been some in of course California. Not that I would drink most municipal water, but I just trust copper. It is well proven. CPVC I would never use. Was forced to use it when we were doing all of Ryan Homes work in NJ. Saw the pipe split right down the middle, in Winter, in Basement, Twice.

 

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I'll see your drafty windows and raise you a bunch of frozen ones. I think I'm going to start a blog called, "This F'd Up House".

6 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

I'll see your drafty windows and raise you a bunch of frozen ones. I think I'm going to start a blog called, "This F'd Up House".

When I lived in an old Victorian home in pittstown we would get that ice buildup on the inside of the windows too. 

1 hour ago, fishnut said:

When I lived in an old Victorian home in pittstown we would get that ice buildup on the inside of the windows too. 

Except my house is probably 100 years newer than a Victorian house. I assume these windows were a DIY gone wrong, as the storm windows are on the inside...

9 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

 as the storm windows are on the inside...

Wha........? That would be a first for

me 

Except my house is probably 100 years newer than a Victorian house. I assume these windows were a DIY gone wrong, as the storm windows are on the inside...

If your storm windows are on the inside and ice is building up inside it's time to replace the windows

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I know. Fixing one f up at a time in this house. Just had a new water heater, water softener, and furnace humifier installed. My pockets hurt. 

16 hours ago, capt14k said:

I use the Onix for radiant with Viega controls. If there was any Pex I would trust it would be theirs. The HePex lawsuits are going to surpass Polypropylene. Wirsbo, Zurn, and IPEX. I stay away from all Pex piping. The potable lawsuits will be next. Propress is good stuff, but very expensive. I have the Copper Press but rarely use it. Never got the gas press.

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School me on these PEX lawsuits?  I have PEX in the house.  Had a couple of freezes due to poor insulation in an open area but I fixed those yesterday with a pipe heater.  Very happy they were pex and did not burst.

1 hour ago, ChrisJM981 said:

Except my house is probably 100 years newer than a Victorian house. I assume these windows were a DIY gone wrong, as the storm windows are on the inside...

Yeah it was original wavy glass. 

Storm windows on the inside........wow I don' know what to say about that. 

School me on these PEX lawsuits?  I have PEX in the house.  Had a couple of freezes due to poor insulation in an open area but I fixed those yesterday with a pipe heater.  Very happy they were pex and did not burst.

 

The major class action suits are for the HEPex used with radiant heat. The joints are failing and destroying houses. It is with the companies I listed.

 

 

The Pex lawsuits are out in California regarding cancer causing and the expansion ring failure. If domestic copper is properly installed and penetrations are sealed it will never have an issue and outlast all of us. The verdict is still out on Pex IMO. Track record for plastic water lines inside of house is not great, see Polypropylene (blue pipe) and CPVC.

 

 

 

My last house was a 2 story 1910, my brother lives in NH in an early 1800's house (post & beam on granite foundation).  For me, I put another layer of insulation in my attic (on the attic floor) and built a cover out of rigid insulation for the attic stairs.  Basically a box that covered the pull down stairs opening.  I had forced hot air and got a 30-40% increase in airflow just by sealing all the ducts in the basement.  Also closed off some of the 2nd floor heat registers and ran the ceiling fan in the bedroom 365.

My brother gets most of his heat from a wood burning stove, but as others said, you need to control the heat with fans.  He put up a cheap set of french doors to close off the stairwell and uses those little triangular corner fans in various doorways to direct the heat.

1 hour ago, capt14k said:

The major class action suits are for the HEPex used with radiant heat. The joints are failing and destroying houses. It is with the companies I listed.

The Pex lawsuits are out in California regarding cancer causing and the expansion ring failure. If domestic copper is properly installed and penetrations are sealed it will never have an issue and outlast all of us. The verdict is still out on Pex IMO. Track record for plastic water lines inside of house is not great, see Polypropylene (blue pipe) and CPVC.

Ah ok - I have PEX for potable water and central air for heat so I'm not worried about the radiant heat/joints.  I do like the fact that the PEX Piping was easier to defrost...  

4 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Ah ok - I have PEX for potable water and central air for heat so I'm not worried about the radiant heat/joints.  I do like the fact that the PEX Piping was easier to defrost...  

I’m not quite sure why you’re defrosting pipes in your brand new home.

6 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I’m not quite sure why you’re defrosting pipes in your brand new home.

Me neither - bad design/placement.  If I hadn't enclosed the space above the garage, it would have been wasted and possibly could have been insulated better but who knows.

Ah ok - I have PEX for potable water and central air for heat so I'm not worried about the radiant heat/joints.  I do like the fact that the PEX Piping was easier to defrost...  

It's not easier to defrost. I can't use a thaw machine on it, if it's plastic. It's harder to thaw. But less chance of a split.

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16 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Me neither - bad design/placement.  If I hadn't enclosed the space above the garage, it would have been wasted and possibly could have been insulated better but who knows.

No... something is wrong. It’s not -20 here for 4 weeks. This snap is within our parameters.

No... something is wrong. It’s not -20 here for 4 weeks. This snap is within our parameters.

As soon as the temp drops below 20° I start getting frozen pipe calls. New houses, old, not so new, not so old. It happens everywhere.

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Just now, DeerSlayer said:

As soon as the temp drops below 20° I start getting frozen pipe calls. New houses, old, not so new, not so old. It happens everywhere.

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Still wrong.

Just now, Zeke said:

No... something is wrong. It’s not -20 here for 4 weeks. This snap is within our parameters.

It's already on my list of items that the builder needs to address.  If my fix is what was needed, then I'll see if he can reimburse me for the equipment.

And @Krdshrkhas his 2n 10.

Still wrong.

It's in the code. We must protect pipes from freezing. I personally refuse to run plumbing through any unheated space, including through a garage ceiling. Unless the customer agrees to let me heat the garage. It's that simple.

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Our kitchen sink drain line froze for the second time in the 10 years we’ve been in the 1890’s house.  It’s very hard to get heat to it in the exterior wall, below floor level but still above ground.   Last time it took a week of indirect heat and warming exterior temps to get it flowing.    This time we don’t have warming exterior temps in the near future. 

I’ll be back to running the dishwasher drain into a 5 gallon bucket tonight, because that’s easier than hauling dishes upstairs to the bathroom

It's in the code. We must protect pipes from freezing. I personally refuse to run plumbing through any unheated space, including through a garage ceiling. Unless the customer agrees to let me heat the garage. It's that simple.

 

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And no outside walls even if it is a conditioned space.

 

Usually takes 2 days sub 20 degree temps. However if the wind is blowing cold, pipes can freeze in a day with 30 degree temps. All it takes is a small penetration. This cold spell we are in anyone's pipes can freeze. Some have frozen for the first time in 20 years since the home was built.

 

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Our kitchen sink drain line froze for the second time in the 10 years we’ve been in the 1890’s house.  It’s very hard to get heat to it in the exterior wall, below floor level but still above ground.   Last time it took a week of indirect heat and warming exterior temps to get it flowing.    This time we don’t have warming exterior temps in the near future. 
I’ll be back to running the dishwasher drain into a 5 gallon bucket tonight, because that’s easier than hauling dishes upstairs to the bathroom

Remove the trap. And stick a shop vac hose over the drain. Let it blow warm air down the drain for about an hour. That's how I thaw frozen drains in people's houses. It works.

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Remove the trap. And stick a shop vac hose over the drain. Let it blow warm air down the drain for about an hour. That's how I thaw frozen drains in people's houses. It works.  

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Hair Dryer blowing into hose or pipe if you don't have large shop vac.

 

 

I will also use heat guns blowing onto the pipe but be careful not to melt plastic pipe or start a fire.

 

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47 minutes ago, DeerSlayer said:

It's in the code. We must protect pipes from freezing. I personally refuse to run plumbing through any unheated space, including through a garage ceiling. Unless the customer agrees to let me heat the garage. It's that simple.

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Exactly. Thaw once. Then fix. It’s 2018 unless it’s truly cost prohibitive to the client. There should never be a repeating freeze issue.

 

26 minutes ago, DeerSlayer said:

Remove the trap. And stick a shop vac hose over the drain. Let it blow warm air down the drain for about an hour. That's how I thaw frozen drains in people's houses. It works.

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Thanks.  I’ll try this or the hairdryer   Capt suggested.  I’ve been directing warm air at whatever exposed pipe I can get to, but didn’t think to direct air inside the pipe.     I assume I pump out what water I can from the line first?   I believe the frozen section to be 6-10 feet from the trap. 

Thanks.  I’ll try this or the hairdryer   Capt suggested.  I’ve been directing warm air at whatever exposed pipe I can get to, but didn’t think to direct air inside the pipe.     I assume I pump out what water I can from the line first?   I believe the frozen section to be 6-10 feet from the trap. 

Try getting as much water out as possible.

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Exactly. Thaw once. Then fix. It’s 2018 unless it’s truly cost prohibitive to the client. There should never be a repeating freeze issue.
 

Some plans call for a bathroom above an unheated garage. Personally I refuse to pipe it that way, unless the customer or builder signs a release that removes any liability from me when it freezes. Same with running baseboard heat into a soffit area, on an overhang or cantilever. I won't do it until I can't be held liable.

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